147 replies to this topic

[Venatos]

since i saw a streamVOD with the energydrawtopic i wanted to give my perspective:
i dont play that often, so i dont have all the 150 different heatpenalty groups memoriced. everytime i want to make a loadout, i have to get out of the game, browse to smurfy and lookup if i can fire 2 or 3 ppc´s, how many lightppc? are mpl and lpl linked? and this and that and what about this and blablablub.... why do i have to go on a fansite to make a loadout? why is this info not ingame? why do i have to memorize several pages of ghostheatgroups?

as an infrequent player i am very effected by this and i can tell you: its a pain, real pain.

i dont even care anymore how or with what it gets replaced, there is litteraly no way to make it worse then it is....

i would expect the information about the loadout-limitation to be ingame and presented in a simple manner. like:
engine profides 10 power, weapon A draws 5, weapon B draws 7, firering both incurs a heatpenalty or blows a fuse and triggers a shutdown,
whatever, anything, everything that isnt 37 different things to memorice over weeks between playsessions...

[Bombast]

Poorly explained heat rules are not a good argument for Energy Draw - If they can't properly indicate those to an infrequent player, why assume Energy Draw would be obvious to you?

Also, good luck. Most people hated Energy Draw. This may go sour, fast.

[vibrant]

Bombast, on 20 October 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

Poorly explained heat rules are not a good argument for Energy Draw - If they can't properly indicate those to an infrequent player, why assume Energy Draw would be obvious to you?

Also, good luck. Most people hated Energy Draw. This may go sour, fast.

I would assume energy draw would be obvious because you can see it when you fire your weapons, and it would behave quite consistently rather than arbitrarily like ghost heat.

[Bombast]

vibrant, on 20 October 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

I would assume energy draw would be obvious because you can see it when you fire your weapons, and it would behave quite consistently rather than arbitrarily like ghost heat.

You can see Ghost Heat when you fire your weapons. The heat bar is fairly consistent in how it behaves.

And really, any construction system that requires you to be in game to see it isn't great. Ghost heat does have a mechlab indicator, it's just bad.

[Stinger554]

Venatos, on 20 October 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

since i saw a streamVOD with the energydrawtopic i wanted to give my perspective:
i dont play that often, so i dont have all the 150 different heatpenalty groups memoriced. everytime i want to make a loadout, i have to get out of the game, browse to smurfy and lookup if i can fire 2 or 3 ppc´s, how many lightppc? are mpl and lpl linked? and this and that and what about this and blablablub.... why do i have to go on a fansite to make a loadout? why is this info not ingame? why do i have to memorize several pages of ghostheatgroups?

as an infrequent player i am very effected by this and i can tell you: its a pain, real pain.

i dont even care anymore how or with what it gets replaced, there is litteraly no way to make it worse then it is....

i would expect the information about the loadout-limitation to be ingame and presented in a simple manner. like:
engine profides 10 power, weapon A draws 5, weapon B draws 7, firering both incurs a heatpenalty or blows a fuse and triggers a shutdown,
whatever, anything, everything that isnt 37 different things to memorice over weeks between playsessions...

While it isn't obvious there is an indicator at the top of the mechlab that lets you know if you have weapons equipped that will ghost heat if you fire more than XX of said weapon will trigger ghost heat. It's the little yellow warning triangle up there.

For example if you equip three PPCs that warning triangle will pop-up and let you know that firing 3 PPCs at once will trigger ghost heat.

[spottiedogman]

No most people did not hate it just the supreme whiners that saw that they were going to lose alpha warrior online. It by far is about the only thing that might have had a chance to fix what is still the main problem, that is being able to fire huge alphas multiple times with no heavy penalty. When I say heavy penalty I mean that alphas(high heat) should be a last resort I may blow up my mech decision imho.

On topic don't expect PGI to use resources to implement things in the game that are found else where. If it is not their idea from the start they will not even entertain it!

[Khobai]

ghost heat would be sufficient if it didnt have numerous loopholes

like being able to combine 6 medium lasers with 2 large lasers for a massive alpha that avoids ghost heat.

medium and large lasers should be linked for ghost heat

Edited by Khobai, 20 October 2017 - 12:12 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Khobai, on 20 October 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

ghost heat would be sufficient if it didnt have numerous loopholes

like being able to combine 6 medium lasers with 2 large lasers for a massive alpha that avoids ghost heat.

medium and large lasers should be linked for ghost heat

But you don't think it should apply across all weapon types then? Just within the categories? Or just in that instance? It would certainly make it less loopholey if it was just a stat on weapons, but I can see reasons why encouraging mixed loadouts isn't a bad idea.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 20 October 2017 - 12:19 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

I would rather sandpaper the ******* of an alligator in a phone booth than play MechWarrior with Energy Draw.

Khobai, on 20 October 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

ghost heat would be sufficient if it didnt have numerous loopholes

like being able to combine 6 medium lasers with 2 large lasers for a massive alpha that avoids ghost heat.

medium and large lasers should be linked for ghost heat

How many mediums can I combine with 2 large lasers? What is "fair"?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 20 October 2017 - 12:27 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 October 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

I would rather sandpaper the ******* of an alligator in a phone booth than...

That was pretty specific. I like the cut of your jib.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 20 October 2017 - 12:28 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Shifty McSwift, on 20 October 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

But you don't think it should apply across all weapon types then? Just within the categories? Or just in that instance? It would certainly make it less loopholey if it was just a stat on weapons, but I can see reasons why encouraging mixed loadouts isn't a bad idea.

Combining across classes/weapon types is dumb.

The only time I should have to wait between firing lasers and missiles (for example) is the time it takes to adjust my aim.

spottiedogman, on 20 October 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

No most people did not hate it

They really did. Most of the few who did like it reside in potato land.

[Mechteric]

Yep, ghost heat is the fetid bandaid that just doesn't want to come off.

[Shifty McSwift]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 October 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

Combining across classes/weapon types is dumb.

The only time I should have to wait between firing lasers and missiles (for example) is the time it takes to sandpaper the ******* of an alligator in a phone booth.

FTFY

[Nemesis Duck]

Bombast, on 20 October 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

Poorly explained heat rules are not a good argument for Energy Draw - If they can't properly indicate those to an infrequent player, why assume Energy Draw would be obvious to you?

Also, good luck. Most people hated Energy Draw. This may go sour, fast.

You already soured it.

Gas Guzzler, on 20 October 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

Combining across classes/weapon types is dumb.

The only time I should have to wait between firing lasers and missiles (for example) is the time it takes to adjust my aim.



They really did. Most of the few who did like it reside in potato land.

Yeah that's for sure, 2 things that create heat are not combining their heat, that makes no sense. Unless ... stupid is as stupid does is par for the course and the playerbase bleeds.

Energy draw may not have been perfect but it was an improvement.

[Stinger554]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 October 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

How many mediums can I combine with 2 large lasers? What is "fair"?

For Clan LL if you fire two ERLL and a ML Ghost heat for ERLL.

For IS if you fire three ERLL and a ML Ghost heat for ERLL.

Or what ever prevents 80 point Alpha strikes with out immediate shutdown. Personally to keep it "fair" they should tone it 40 Alpha strikes for lasers.

Even if you don't agree to the exact number above lasers should still have GH applied the same way that missiles do. Example if you have 4 C-SRM6 + 1 C-SRM4 and you alpha strike you generate GH equal to the C-SRM6 heat penalty.

Edited by Stinger554, 20 October 2017 - 12:42 PM.

[Josh Seles]

Well, I'd rather have Energy Draw than ghost heat. Lesser of 2 evils sort of thing.
I'd prefer the 3rd PTS, the one with Gauss Rifles that didn't have charge-ups. I'll gladly take ED if we can get that as part of it.

[Bombast]

Nemesis Duck, on 20 October 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

You already soured it.

Glad to know disagreeing with a premise is automatically souring the discussion.

[Kuaron]

Bad (not just badly explained) heat rules may be an argument for another bad system as ED was, but not a very strong one.

[Gas Guzzler]

Stinger554, on 20 October 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Or what ever prevents 80 point Alpha strikes with out immediate shutdown. Personally to keep it "fair" they should tone it 40 Alpha strikes for lasers.

That's pretty weak. Why would I bother with lasers then?

Stinger554, on 20 October 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

For Clan LL if you fire two ERLL and a ML Ghost heat for ERLL.

For IS if you fire three ERLL and a ML Ghost heat for ERLL.

3 LL and ML gives ghost heat?? why? That's only 32 damage.

[Stinger554]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 October 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

That's pretty weak. Why would I bother with lasers then?

40 seems like a good number because you can only fire 2 PPCs without GH to get 20 and Lasers aren't PPFLD so double what's allowed for PPCs.

40 seems weak because current laser vomit gets you 80 points of damage... 80 alpha isn't okay. Especially since the mechs don't even shut down from that.

Gas Guzzler, on 20 October 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

3 LL and ML gives ghost heat?? why? That's only 32 damage.

I was just using already existing GH limits make it 3ERLL and 2 or even 3 ML for IS.

Edited by Stinger554, 20 October 2017 - 01:15 PM.