If one side is even remotely coordinated and drops fast mechs first wave, there's not much to be done against the zerg rush. Clans do this with lights and IS does it with assassins (which is even worse). Given how much time it often takes to get into a FP match it's dumb that it ends in 3 minutes by shooting some buildings with no actual PvP combat, and teams will do this just to quickly get over the drop and get into a new mode because nobody likes incursion. So why even have it in rotation?
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Should Incursion Be In Fp?
Started by K O Z A K, Dec 08 2017 01:53 PM
64 replies to this topic
#2
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:03 PM
Yeah, probably best to get rid of it. We drop in Mechs looking for a fight, so it's disappointing when some units Light rush and it's all over in a couple of minutes.
"We are playing the objective," they say. And they are right. They are entitled to play the objective.
But still, it all ends up being a massive waste of time. For example, we had a couple of players drop out of our FP group tonight after JGx and some PUGs did it on our first FP match of the night. We'd waited 10 minutes to get a group together, 10 minutes to get in the lobby, 10 minutes to get into a match ... and then, that.
It's not in anyone's interest when the limited pool of FP players can't be bothered playing further.
"We are playing the objective," they say. And they are right. They are entitled to play the objective.
But still, it all ends up being a massive waste of time. For example, we had a couple of players drop out of our FP group tonight after JGx and some PUGs did it on our first FP match of the night. We'd waited 10 minutes to get a group together, 10 minutes to get in the lobby, 10 minutes to get into a match ... and then, that.
It's not in anyone's interest when the limited pool of FP players can't be bothered playing further.
Edited by Appogee, 08 December 2017 - 02:05 PM.
#3
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- Hero of Steiner
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Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:58 PM
Right there with you guys. I can't see the enjoyment of doing a 1st wave base rush. But apparently it's pretty popular.
#4
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- Nova Captain
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:35 AM
It's why we aren't playing FP anymore..... Crab rushes. Assassin rushes. Endless farming. Oh well, they all went to sea again (WoW) and this time, they might not be back.... am concerned.
#5
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- The Pest
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:02 AM
Appogee, on 08 December 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:
Yeah, probably best to get rid of it. We drop in Mechs looking for a fight, so it's disappointing when some units Light rush and it's all over in a couple of minutes.
"We are playing the objective," they say. And they are right. They are entitled to play the objective.
But still, it all ends up being a massive waste of time. For example, we had a couple of players drop out of our FP group tonight after JGx and some PUGs did it on our first FP match of the night. We'd waited 10 minutes to get a group together, 10 minutes to get in the lobby, 10 minutes to get into a match ... and then, that.
It's not in anyone's interest when the limited pool of FP players can't be bothered playing further.
"We are playing the objective," they say. And they are right. They are entitled to play the objective.
But still, it all ends up being a massive waste of time. For example, we had a couple of players drop out of our FP group tonight after JGx and some PUGs did it on our first FP match of the night. We'd waited 10 minutes to get a group together, 10 minutes to get in the lobby, 10 minutes to get into a match ... and then, that.
It's not in anyone's interest when the limited pool of FP players can't be bothered playing further.
I am of a different mindset Appogee.
I think CW maps should all be incursion types. Before the friendly fire starts, let me explain.
1. Has actual 'bases' to defend/attack.
2. Ability to power radar, jammer, air control for both sides.
#2 is the real benefit, no matter scouting, either side can utilize them.
I like Incursion mode. It 'fits' well into CW IMO. Yes, it can use tweeks but it adds to CW, BT.
Base rushing can suck. Had one last night on HPG in CW. Clan team went to middle top to have overwatch and play the long range game they like so much. Knowing best way to beat clans is to not play their alpha range game, we sent lance to harass, and like clockwork, they fell for it and chased the squirrel. So, eight of us, I crap you not!, walked right by them less then 200m away, and right into cap. In four minutes, we lost two, and capped them out.
They were very, VERY, salty we didn't play into whatever they had planned.
It was hilarious.
#6
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:43 AM
TWIAFU, on 09 December 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:
Base rushing can suck. Had one last night on HPG in CW. Clan team went to middle top to have overwatch and play the long range game they like so much. Knowing best way to beat clans is to not play their alpha range game, we sent lance to harass, and like clockwork, they fell for it and chased the squirrel. So, eight of us, I crap you not!, walked right by them less then 200m away, and right into cap. In four minutes, we lost two, and capped them out.
They were very, VERY, salty we didn't play into whatever they had planned.
It was hilarious.
They were very, VERY, salty we didn't play into whatever they had planned.
It was hilarious.
Making MWO totally worthless to play, one match at a time. Keep on cappin' dingoes!
On a side note, preventing situations above are on the other hand, what makes a good fight. Here teamplay comes into focus, not so easy to do with total spuds..
Had a nice match yesterday, where we blocked an assassin rush to cap incursion base early on first wave, because one guy said the enemy is known to "play objective" and we stayed to defend the base with almost whole team.
So a bit conflicting: I dont like cappers, in any form, and at the same time, killing cappers is soo tasty.. Humm Homm, so it goes...
Edited by Ssamout, 09 December 2017 - 04:47 AM.
#7
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- Marshal
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:20 AM
Buff the turrets with 2 light machine guns and 2 large pulse and buff their health. 
#8
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- Little Helper
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:35 AM
TWIAFU, on 09 December 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:
Base rushing can suck. Had one last night on HPG in CW. Clan team went to middle top to have overwatch and play the long range game they like so much. Knowing best way to beat clans is to not play their alpha range game, we sent lance to harass, and like clockwork, they fell for it and chased the squirrel. So, eight of us, I crap you not!, walked right by them less then 200m away, and right into cap. In four minutes, we lost two, and capped them out.
They were very, VERY, salty we didn't play into whatever they had planned.
They were very, VERY, salty we didn't play into whatever they had planned.
And on it goes.
Ssamout, on 09 December 2017 - 04:43 AM, said:
Making MWO totally worthless to play, one match at a time. Keep on cappin' dingoes!
TWIAFU, on 09 December 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:
hilarious.
#9
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:38 AM
TWIAFU, on 09 December 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:
I am of a different mindset Appogee.
I think CW maps should all be incursion types. Before the friendly fire starts, let me explain.
1. Has actual 'bases' to defend/attack.
2. Ability to power radar, jammer, air control for both sides.
#2 is the real benefit, no matter scouting, either side can utilize them.
I like Incursion mode. It 'fits' well into CW IMO. Yes, it can use tweeks but it adds to CW, BT.
Base rushing can suck. Had one last night on HPG in CW. Clan team went to middle top to have overwatch and play the long range game they like so much. Knowing best way to beat clans is to not play their alpha range game, we sent lance to harass, and like clockwork, they fell for it and chased the squirrel. So, eight of us, I crap you not!, walked right by them less then 200m away, and right into cap. In four minutes, we lost two, and capped them out.
They were very, VERY, salty we didn't play into whatever they had planned.
It was hilarious.
I don't know how you guys enjoy that. Spending 20 minutes getting into a FP match just to have it end in 4m....hilarious is not the word that comes to mind
#11
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- 118 posts
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:58 AM
Appogee, on 08 December 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:
Yeah, probably best to get rid of it. We drop in Mechs looking for a fight, so it's disappointing when some units Light rush and it's all over in a couple of minutes.
"We are playing the objective," they say. And they are right. They are entitled to play the objective.
But still, it all ends up being a massive waste of time. For example, we had a couple of players drop out of our FP group tonight after JGx and some PUGs did it on our first FP match of the night. We'd waited 10 minutes to get a group together, 10 minutes to get in the lobby, 10 minutes to get into a match ... and then, that.
It's not in anyone's interest when the limited pool of FP players can't be bothered playing further.
"We are playing the objective," they say. And they are right. They are entitled to play the objective.
But still, it all ends up being a massive waste of time. For example, we had a couple of players drop out of our FP group tonight after JGx and some PUGs did it on our first FP match of the night. We'd waited 10 minutes to get a group together, 10 minutes to get in the lobby, 10 minutes to get into a match ... and then, that.
It's not in anyone's interest when the limited pool of FP players can't be bothered playing further.
Sorry but i have to correct you.
As per internal code of conduct, JGx never goes for gens or caps, we go only for kills.
I am here to do pvp, for pve i play fallout 4.
I never zerged a gen or a base since 2012 and i never will.
It's only a way to piss off people and to make **** players win the game in some ways.
We were on crimson in 3 with a 9 men premade.
That 9 men premade zerged your base, we were the 3 ilya, and black widows fighting things
#12
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- 118 posts
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:02 AM
As for the topic, incursion is a ******** game mode. It must be implemented as follows.
- at mid map on flanks there must be some alarm watch towers so you see when a bunch of idiots are trying to zerg your buildings.
-more walls, you must not be able to kill the base from outside, you must enter
-on time out, most kills win, not most base damage (and same for conquest and domination)
- mechwarrior 4 calliope turrets: they were equipped with 4lrm5+2CERLPL+2CERLL. They must be standing in the open on top of mountains or towers, so if base defenders just hide in you can poptart them at range, but if you zerg the base you will most likely get detected in advance and farmed by turrets, 6 calliopes per base with 150 health each should do
- at mid map on flanks there must be some alarm watch towers so you see when a bunch of idiots are trying to zerg your buildings.
-more walls, you must not be able to kill the base from outside, you must enter
-on time out, most kills win, not most base damage (and same for conquest and domination)
- mechwarrior 4 calliope turrets: they were equipped with 4lrm5+2CERLPL+2CERLL. They must be standing in the open on top of mountains or towers, so if base defenders just hide in you can poptart them at range, but if you zerg the base you will most likely get detected in advance and farmed by turrets, 6 calliopes per base with 150 health each should do
Edited by anonymous223, 09 December 2017 - 08:10 AM.
#13
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- Star Colonel
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:08 AM
Perhaps it's just my being prior service and all, but when I'm playing FP I'm playing to win and I don't much care how I do it. Mission First, Last and Always.
That being said, when you get to a lobby for faction play you have at least 1 minute to stack your dropdeck for that map and mode and co-ordinate with your team (Team work OPed, gentlemen). If you're dropping in Incursion and you think you've got a base rush coming at you: COUNTER IT BEFORE IT STARTS!
Take the time to set up forward observers in fast lights, build your decks to deal with light rushes, set up firing lines to defend your base, anything but run out like you're playing a QP Pug match when it's really an 8-12 man team and wonder why things went horribly wrong. Insanity is repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result. If you see your opponents keep going to the same tactics and rolling you with it, change what you're doing in response rather than just complain about it.
End of the day my opinion is this: If all you want to do is grind your stats and make this the "Who's Line" of MW where the only game mode is skirmish and the objectives don't matter keep it on quick play or take it over to CoD. If you're going to get butt-hurt over people trying to play the game as intended and not as you think every game should always be played then you should just call it quits and walk away now so those of us who do like playing strategically like it's something vaguely resembling real life (We killed all the North Korean guards and soldiers, but we totally ignored that nuke we were supposed to keep from launching. Our bad San Fran... We really needed to work on our KDR, objectives are for *******) don't have to keep listening to your incessant whining over other teams winning without feeding into your ego.
That being said, when you get to a lobby for faction play you have at least 1 minute to stack your dropdeck for that map and mode and co-ordinate with your team (Team work OPed, gentlemen). If you're dropping in Incursion and you think you've got a base rush coming at you: COUNTER IT BEFORE IT STARTS!
Take the time to set up forward observers in fast lights, build your decks to deal with light rushes, set up firing lines to defend your base, anything but run out like you're playing a QP Pug match when it's really an 8-12 man team and wonder why things went horribly wrong. Insanity is repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result. If you see your opponents keep going to the same tactics and rolling you with it, change what you're doing in response rather than just complain about it.
End of the day my opinion is this: If all you want to do is grind your stats and make this the "Who's Line" of MW where the only game mode is skirmish and the objectives don't matter keep it on quick play or take it over to CoD. If you're going to get butt-hurt over people trying to play the game as intended and not as you think every game should always be played then you should just call it quits and walk away now so those of us who do like playing strategically like it's something vaguely resembling real life (We killed all the North Korean guards and soldiers, but we totally ignored that nuke we were supposed to keep from launching. Our bad San Fran... We really needed to work on our KDR, objectives are for *******) don't have to keep listening to your incessant whining over other teams winning without feeding into your ego.
Edited by TheMightySpin, 09 December 2017 - 10:12 AM.
#14
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- The Blazing
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:22 AM
It sucks. Both teams are charged with attacking and defending. Teams race to dunk the objective because it's highly likely the opponent will try to do the same. No one stays to defend because (1) it's boring, and (2) if only a few of you stay behind you're likely going to get overwhelmed and crushed quickly. It's a crap mode for faction war.
#15
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:15 AM
TheMightySpin, on 09 December 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:
Perhaps it's just my being prior service and all, but when I'm playing FP I'm playing to win and I don't much care how I do it. Mission First, Last and Always.
That being said, when you get to a lobby for faction play you have at least 1 minute to stack your dropdeck for that map and mode and co-ordinate with your team (Team work OPed, gentlemen). If you're dropping in Incursion and you think you've got a base rush coming at you: COUNTER IT BEFORE IT STARTS!
Take the time to set up forward observers in fast lights, build your decks to deal with light rushes, set up firing lines to defend your base, anything but run out like you're playing a QP Pug match when it's really an 8-12 man team and wonder why things went horribly wrong. Insanity is repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result. If you see your opponents keep going to the same tactics and rolling you with it, change what you're doing in response rather than just complain about it.
End of the day my opinion is this: If all you want to do is grind your stats and make this the "Who's Line" of MW where the only game mode is skirmish and the objectives don't matter keep it on quick play or take it over to CoD. If you're going to get butt-hurt over people trying to play the game as intended and not as you think every game should always be played then you should just call it quits and walk away now so those of us who do like playing strategically like it's something vaguely resembling real life (We killed all the North Korean guards and soldiers, but we totally ignored that nuke we were supposed to keep from launching. Our bad San Fran... We really needed to work on our KDR, objectives are for *******) don't have to keep listening to your incessant whining over other teams winning without feeding into your ego.
That being said, when you get to a lobby for faction play you have at least 1 minute to stack your dropdeck for that map and mode and co-ordinate with your team (Team work OPed, gentlemen). If you're dropping in Incursion and you think you've got a base rush coming at you: COUNTER IT BEFORE IT STARTS!
Take the time to set up forward observers in fast lights, build your decks to deal with light rushes, set up firing lines to defend your base, anything but run out like you're playing a QP Pug match when it's really an 8-12 man team and wonder why things went horribly wrong. Insanity is repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result. If you see your opponents keep going to the same tactics and rolling you with it, change what you're doing in response rather than just complain about it.
End of the day my opinion is this: If all you want to do is grind your stats and make this the "Who's Line" of MW where the only game mode is skirmish and the objectives don't matter keep it on quick play or take it over to CoD. If you're going to get butt-hurt over people trying to play the game as intended and not as you think every game should always be played then you should just call it quits and walk away now so those of us who do like playing strategically like it's something vaguely resembling real life (We killed all the North Korean guards and soldiers, but we totally ignored that nuke we were supposed to keep from launching. Our bad San Fran... We really needed to work on our KDR, objectives are for *******) don't have to keep listening to your incessant whining over other teams winning without feeding into your ego.
There is no way to know if a base rush is coming at you when setting up your deck because you dont know who you're facing yet
If you're going to tell me you can stop 10-12 fast mechs jumping the base totally ignoring your team shooting at them by setting up "forward observers" in lights...........lol. When assassins roll in, with their broken hitboxes, there's jack sh*t you can do about it, especially if you're not specifically set up to deal with that. Even if by some miracle you manage to take down a wave if you have pilots good enough to shoot legs only by that time they will wreck most of the base, and then wave 2: rinse and repeat, gg close
I have been on both receiving and (unwillingly) participating end of this, and even when the entire enemy team stays inside the base the lynx/cheta rush easily takes down the buildings by the time they kill 4 of our lights, all that is required for this is to stay balled up and not shoot enemy mechs, buildings only
This is not strategy, this is not tactics, this is a game mode allowed exploit that allows inferior pilots to quickly win the drop against better enemies, which wouldn't be that horrible if it didn't take so long to get into a drop just to have it end in minutes this way. There has to be a way for defenders to actually defend the base for this game mode to work
If all players that actually enjoy mech on mech combat leave, you guys can enjoy your 45 minutes of ghost drops to then run up to and shoot some buildings for 3 minutes (so tactical)
#16
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 04:51 PM
Hazeclaw, on 09 December 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:
I don't know how you guys enjoy that. Spending 20 minutes getting into a FP match just to have it end in 4m....hilarious is not the word that comes to mind
the inner sphere isnt super over populated rn, so it doesnt take us 20 minutes to get into a match. no skin off our backs.
#17
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Posted 09 December 2017 - 05:18 PM
Is there somewhere you can check the current population distribution?
Generally it takes like 10 minutes just to get everyone in the group to ready up, lol
Generally it takes like 10 minutes just to get everyone in the group to ready up, lol
#18
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- Bad Company
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Posted 10 December 2017 - 01:58 AM
Hazeclaw, on 09 December 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:
I don't know how you guys enjoy that. Spending 20 minutes getting into a FP match just to have it end in 4m....hilarious is not the word that comes to mind
We're not stacking the winning side, so we don't have to wait 20 minutes for a match. Usually we just have the 1 minute countdown to scramble and get our decks in order.
#19
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- The Pest
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Posted 10 December 2017 - 08:29 AM
PFC Carsten, on 09 December 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:
And on it goes.
Want to play to your strengths, great.
Does not mean I have to walk into your peek a boo firing line and take it.
Actually, I will do whatever it takes to not play right into Clan range strengths and if that means pushing into brawl range or bypassing a superior firing position, great.
Hazeclaw, on 09 December 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:
I don't know how you guys enjoy that. Spending 20 minutes getting into a FP match just to have it end in 4m....hilarious is not the word that comes to mind
Huh?
20min?
What do you think we are, Clan?
#20
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- Littlest Helper
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Posted 10 December 2017 - 09:30 AM
In its current state of balance, I say it needs to go.
Base rushing in Siege mode is pretty cheesy, but at least they box the generators in cages with a small window. So even if your team is completely clueless you can body block that door and slow the rush.
With Incursion, I don't even know how to counter or slow a determined base rush from a decent premade other than to base-race them back. Once you're inside the base all the structures are out in the open and vulnerable. You can try to block them at the base entrance, but they're often in fast mechs that either jump jet over the wall, or blast down part of the wall and just run past you. The bases are so large that it's difficult to catch them. And all they need to do is touch your base once and they are now "winning".
So far the only times my team has come back from a 12-man base rush was when the other team purposefully left buildings alive so they could fight.
In quickplay you can counter it by just being good shots with good positioning and target calling. In Faction play, even if you survive the initial rush, the next 3 waves will crush your base through attrition.
I don't think upping the hitpoints is the right option. Otherwise it makes 12-man rushes the only viable way to actually chew through a base. I think bases just need to be more defensible and individual players need to be able to do more to slow the rush.
Base rushing in Siege mode is pretty cheesy, but at least they box the generators in cages with a small window. So even if your team is completely clueless you can body block that door and slow the rush.
With Incursion, I don't even know how to counter or slow a determined base rush from a decent premade other than to base-race them back. Once you're inside the base all the structures are out in the open and vulnerable. You can try to block them at the base entrance, but they're often in fast mechs that either jump jet over the wall, or blast down part of the wall and just run past you. The bases are so large that it's difficult to catch them. And all they need to do is touch your base once and they are now "winning".
So far the only times my team has come back from a 12-man base rush was when the other team purposefully left buildings alive so they could fight.
In quickplay you can counter it by just being good shots with good positioning and target calling. In Faction play, even if you survive the initial rush, the next 3 waves will crush your base through attrition.
I don't think upping the hitpoints is the right option. Otherwise it makes 12-man rushes the only viable way to actually chew through a base. I think bases just need to be more defensible and individual players need to be able to do more to slow the rush.
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