41 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

Khobai, on 12 December 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

I definitely carried the team that game.

That screenie, is a classic example of a team not focusing fire.

[CJ Daxion]

Checked my Clan alt account..

1.32 W/L About the same KDR, 30 pionts lower match score.. and about 60 games total.. talk about a tale of two worlds..

funny part is i'm playing my good IS mechs, and i've been just grinding leveles on clan.. GO figure!

[C E Dwyer]

Appogee, on 12 December 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

On a more philosophical level, if more of us tweet Russ about resetting the tiers, using an algorithm that isn't weighted towards constant advancement, and that we're playing less because of the parlous matchmaking, maybe he will feel become aware of the problem and feel motivated to do something about it.

This I feel is very bad idea, certainly remove the upward bias, but a reset would just lead to chaos and a lower population, as all the tiers mix up for the first few months.

Far safer to leave as is, and let those people who are to far advanced fall off their current tier, will take longer to get where you want the game to be, but less damaging in the long run.

[Sjorpha]

Long series of random results include streaks of similar results, even perfect matchmaking would have more or less long streaks of winning and losing, so they can't be used as evidence of bad matchmaking.

Also you do actually influence your own chances of winning.

[RickySpanish]

JC Daxion, on 12 December 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

That screenie, is a classic example of a team not focusing fire.

Wasn't just me thinking that then, enourmous amounts of damage done there. At least they can say they definitely won!

[Appogee]

Cathy, on 12 December 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

This I feel is very bad idea, certainly remove the upward bias, but a reset would just lead to chaos and a lower population, as all the tiers mix up for the first few months.

By "reset" I mean "re-distribute".

In any case, all the tiers are already pretty much mixed in together whenever i'm playing these days.

That's what I want them to prevent.

[mad kat]

Sjorpha, on 12 December 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Long series of random results include streaks of similar results, even perfect matchmaking would have more or less long streaks of winning and losing, so they can't be used as evidence of bad matchmaking.

Also you do actually influence your own chances of winning.

Well I've known for years that the game seems to be unecesarilly unkind to mechs which are being levelled but the skill tree seems to of lessened this a bit but not eradicated it. I can still take out faithful old mastered mechs with hundreds of hours?!?! Experience on them and still get awful games.

So I tried a bit of stat warrior tonight and took some of my poor mechs out (the loyalty kit fox being one) and had a mediocre game but not too bad. Then tried a couple of other mechs which were more along the lines of constant losses......

,......... Then I took my king of the mech stats out. My kingcrab 000B. And sure enough just like that murdered the enemy team, 3 kills, nearly 1k damage, several components destroyed, highest scoring player over both teams. And a win.

Go back to any other mech and it's same old potato games. The kingcrab is so far ahead in terms of statistics is weird.

Edited by mad kat, 12 December 2017 - 02:59 PM.

[Star Colonel Silver Surat]

Sjorpha, on 12 December 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Long series of random results include streaks of similar results, even perfect matchmaking would have more or less long streaks of winning and losing, so they can't be used as evidence of bad matchmaking.

But those streaks would be far rarer with a balanced matchmaker. The MM in the game right now is so far beyond useless that it borders on malevolent.

Sjorpha, on 12 December 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Also you do actually influence your own chances of winning.

With the current matchmaker, about as much as a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil causes a tornado in Kansas.

There's not a whole lot you can do when you see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of your team mates die off in succession with zero enemies down, in the opening 3 minutes. And that happens over and over and over.

Edited by Star Colonel Silver Surat, 12 December 2017 - 04:01 PM.

[Bilbo999]

Cathy, on 12 December 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

This I feel is very bad idea, certainly remove the upward bias, but a reset would just lead to chaos and a lower population, as all the tiers mix up for the first few months.

Far safer to leave as is, and let those people who are to far advanced fall off their current tier, will take longer to get where you want the game to be, but less damaging in the long run.

Best way would be to pre-seed the changed system with the match data they already have. People end up where they belong when it is implemented. Then we just sit back and wait for the inevitable salt that flows from the longer wait times for those at the top while they still complain about the potatoes they have to play with after said waiting.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Best way would be to pre-seed the changed system with the match data they already have. People end up where they belong when it is implemented. Then we just sit back and wait for the inevitable salt that flows from the longer wait times for those at the top while they still complain about the potatoes they have to play with after said waiting.

I've always said that if the game can't get 12v12, it should check for 8v8. If it can't get 8v8, 4v4. If it can't get 4v4, it shuffles those players into a tier over and tries 12v12 again.

[Bilbo999]

Brain Cancer, on 12 December 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

I've always said that if the game can't get 12v12, it should check for 8v8. If it can't get 8v8, 4v4. If it can't get 4v4, it shuffles those players into a tier over and tries 12v12 again.

Nice thought, but I'd have serious issues with never knowing how many teammates I was going to have. Better to just go to 8v8 and be done with it. You already have doubled the potential for a match happening by doing so.

[Jonathan8883]

Eh, I want to go from Tier 2 back down to Tier 3 where I belong. I am getting plastered before I hit 200 damage too much of the time.

[Wil McCullough]

Starting this season, I was consistently getting teams that had like 5 guys who couldnt do 100 damage and 5 others who couldn't do 200. My wlr/kdr went hella negative until i decided **** it and took one of the assault slots.

Due to how potato players are, that led to something like a 10 game winning streak and a 5.0++ wlr in a single night. It's normalized since, but seriously, when lemmings are running around suiciding and not listening to comms, the best you can do is pick a big robot with a big alpha, lurk in the second line and hope for the best.

[Shadowomega1]

Khobai, on 12 December 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

happens. at this time of night it mixes the tiers. so you literally have to carry your team this hard to win

I find the annihilator is easiest mech to carry your team with. It gives you the best chance of affecting the outcome of the game on your own.

*snip*

At least you had several people over 200 points of damage; had 991 points of damage in my Ebon Jag in a match and there was only one other person with more than 200 points of damage at 600 something. What is worse I noticed a majority of the other team had a lot of high tier players I have playing against and with before; my team not one person I recognized.

Appogee, on 12 December 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

I've asked that question myself in the past... even started tracking wins and losses over a long period to see whether there was some pattern to it.

Long story short: I observed long losing streaks, periods of no particular pattern of winning or losing, and some long winning streaks. At the end of 400 matches, I had roughly the same win/loss ratio as when I started measuring.

So I concluded:

1. We feel the losing streaks more keenly when they are happening to us.
2. Winning streaks you tend to notice less.
3. Not even the very best players in the game - including those we just saw at MechCon - can personally prevent a potato team from losing.

But:

4. If I go Full Meta Carry Mech in TryHard mode, I can turn some of the close matches into wins.
5. If I try to level sub-optimal Mechs, or fun builds, I will cause some close matches to be lost.

What do about it:

When you're in a losing streak, all you can do is take your best Mech and try. Or, just walk away for a while and do something fun.

On a more philosophical level, if more of us tweet Russ about resetting the tiers, using an algorithm that isn't weighted towards constant advancement, and that we're playing less because of the parlous matchmaking, maybe he will feel become aware of the problem and feel motivated to do something about it.

Only thing I can say is add in to any of that tracking is players you dropped with/against, bet a pattern will show up. As most of my losses are when I am dropped with players I don't recognized as skilled, while facing a lot of players I do recognize as skilled.

However, even in those wins that are stomps it isn't fun as it feels like I am bringing a aluminum bat to a pillow fight.

[LT. HARDCASE]

mad kat, on 12 December 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

Is anyone else experiencing this or is it just me?

I seem to be losing easily 90% of games i drop in, in solo queue. Its really obvious though that the matches are mixing tiers (nothing at all against T5 as i know many of them are pretty damn good).

But with long wait times finding a match and by watching other players there are clearly some polar skill gaps. The last two weeks it seemed as if our blue team were fighting challenger 2 tanks and IFV's with land rovers and bicycles the games have been that decisive and honestly pathetic. Reliably and consistently too.

I haven't got a problem with losing games or dying but when match after match after match is just stomps there has to be something very wrong with the core of the game... Nothing anywhere near a 50/50 balance.

...Or does it just hate me.

Try hard, QQ'ing over. ;-)

Just looking at your stats with no context, it looks like you aren't holding much influence on whether the match is a win, as far as damage and kills.

[sycocys]

This may or may not be helpful, but I always found that I won more games when I wasn't trying to carry the team and instead was putting my efforts into setting up the rest of the team for better situations.

Might be purely subjective, but at least to my perception I seemed to get much better results when I was leading other people into situations where they'd actively and willingly engage. Worked more often than not the times I would drop in quick play since most people seem to think they are there to carry anyhow, why not just set them up for it?

[UnofficialOperator]

Are you guys not tired of being fodder for the MM?

Is it not time to campaign for a new MM and PSR?

A lot of you "T1" guys are just grist for the mill because PSR is flawed as it is now.

[Bilbo999]

UnofficialOperator, on 12 December 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

Are you guys not tired of being fodder for the MM?

Is it not time to campaign for a new MM and PSR?

A lot of you "T1" guys are just grist for the mill because PSR is flawed as it is now.

We had ELO. We have this. Nothing they do will make anyone happy.

[Humpday]

I regret responding to this thread...now I'm on a streak of potato losses :-(

[UnofficialOperator]

mad kat, on 12 December 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

Well I've known for years that the game seems to be unecesarilly unkind to mechs which are being levelled but the skill tree seems to of lessened this a bit but not eradicated it. I can still take out faithful old mastered mechs with hundreds of hours?!?! Experience on them and still get awful games.

So I tried a bit of stat warrior tonight and took some of my poor mechs out (the loyalty kit fox being one) and had a mediocre game but not too bad. Then tried a couple of other mechs which were more along the lines of constant losses......

,......... Then I took my king of the mech stats out. My kingcrab 000B. And sure enough just like that murdered the enemy team, 3 kills, nearly 1k damage, several components destroyed, highest scoring player over both teams. And a win.

Go back to any other mech and it's same old potato games. The kingcrab is so far ahead in terms of statistics is weird.

I think what is happening is that you are getting out of position with your higher speed mech. Kingcrab pretty much has meatshield of other players around you. Plus you are so slow, you just mop up kills.

Out of position, lower armor, giving 1 assault slot to an even more newbie player = loss

Thats my theory anyway

PS: Best to keep up your winning strategy until you can figure out the map layouts

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 12 December 2017 - 08:07 PM.