49 replies to this topic

[Burke IV]

Just on paper it looks like it could do fine with a light 250. Just like an IS huntsman. The little ball that draws SRM fire does sound unfortunate.

[Zergling]

Uziel still needs more durability.

Edited by Zergling, 16 January 2018 - 01:55 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

ForceUser, on 16 January 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

Reality doesn't care about opinions. Yes that hurts but you'll have to live with it.

This is as inane as a certain president in a certain country (not to mention very similar to tactics/logic used by his supporters). Even before we talk about the purpose of this forum; if you don't care about your opinions, why are you wasting your time on my thread?

If you believe Uziel is "fine" and unwill to change your opinion, then so be it. Just stop polluting this thread and try convince other people if you are not willing to make logical arguments to support your claim in the first place.

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Like I said in my post, and as you and others repeatedly make the mistake. You're focusing on the mech's characteristics individually, instead of looking at the whole picture. You're looking through a pin hole instead of taking the box off your head and seeing the mech in it's entirety. Those that are able to do that have found a good mech in the Uziel. For some it's a great mech. This also explains the absolutely terrible builds and play styles people that are having trouble with it are advocating. You literally identify where the mech's shortcoming are and play/build it in a way amplifies those shortcomings 10 times while utilizing none of it's advantages. This is the very definition of spite, agian like I said.

I think IT'S YOU are the one looking the mech's characteristics individually, because if you look at the mech's strengths and weaknesses, it is actually fine in paper. But the combination of them aren't.


1) It's super agile.
2) Relatively high mounts.
3) High engine cap.
4) Quirked for long range.

1) Wide and big.
2) Horrid cockpit position.
3) IS tech.

The mech definitely has both strengths and weaknesses. At first glance the mech looks balanced, but then one links these elements together, one should realize weaknesses essentially nullify strengths and while amplifying problems of themselves.

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It's worth noting that if for some bizarre reason you guys manage to whine load enough to get it buffed that I will be happy as a clam. It's already one of the best performing mechs out of 240 mechs I own. Buffing it means I will just do that much better in it. Problem of course is if it reaches a tipping point where enough people realize how to play it well and pump up it's stats, it'll be nerfed again, perhaps even below what it is now. Plenty of examples of that. Maybe I shouldn't help people with the Uziel

Builds for the Uziel:
UZL-3P
UZL-5P (even better on the Hero since it gets 10% missile cooldown as well)
UZL-6P build 1
UZL-6P build 2
UZL-3S (basically a faster, more agile, better armoured CDA-3M without ECM but with a JJ and 2 extra DHS)

Look at these builds which can replace 3P. In reality I don't use such builds listed here (I prefer putting more heatsinks with smaller engine)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a451b196

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7da4112

Unlike that Uziel build, these builds do not suffer from convergence issue, has either good defensive quirks or hitboxes so they are relatively XL-safe, and Shadow Hawk one has far better hardpoints for PPC poptarting. Anything Uziel can do, there are tons of other mechs that can do better.


Plus: And 3P is not even a good mech for PPC for convergence issue alone.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...932ae483 don't mind armor distribution values)

This is a slower, less-jumpy light engine build, but at least it can use deadside as a shield if needed, suffers little convergence issue with both PPCs are tightly placed together, actually can do corner picking if required, and is not limited to torso pitch.


You can do this build to Uziel that has two energy hardpoints on its arms.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 16 January 2018 - 03:12 PM.

[gooddragon2]

Zergling, on 16 January 2018 - 01:55 PM, said:

Uziel still needs more durability.

I think the bigger the hitboxes on a mech, the more durability it should have. More size, more armor. Just makes sense.

[Revis Volek]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 December 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

Has nobody here played a BJ-1X? I can't see the [energy] Uziel being much different than that.

Though I do have to LOL at the Uziel and Shadowcat being even comment. The SHC will SRM-bomb the Uziel and that will be the end of it.

Even just the 2 HLL 6 LMG builds would shred any Uziel, i dont see the comparison. Uziel is much worse.

[ForceUser]

Quote

I think IT'S YOU are the one looking the mech's characteristics individually, because if you look at the mech's strengths and weaknesses, it is actually fine in paper. But the combination of them aren't.


1) It's super agile.
2) Relatively high mounts.
3) High engine cap.
4) Quirked for long range.

1) Wide and big.
2) Horrid cockpit position.
3) IS tech.

The mech definitely has both strengths and weaknesses. At first glance the mech looks balanced, but then one links these elements together, one should realize weaknesses essentially nullify strengths and while amplifying problems of themselves.

It's very funny you should say this because you make my point for me even though you don't realise it. It's like you're on the right track and then trip at the finish line.

Breaking down the advantages we can see how they apply to the mech to reduce or remove the negatives. That's precisely what I mean by looking at the mech as a whole. It won't make the mech top tier comp level, although the 6P sometimes feels like one, but it'll show the mech is far, FAR from one of the worst mechs in the game.

Range: With range nodes and range quirk and without TC your ERML have a range of 450/900, LL is at 560/1120, HPPC is at 675/1350, MRMs at 677, ERLL at 843/1687 and ERPPC at a whopping 1012/2024. Using short range brawling weapons on this mech is throwing this advantage out the window, no idea why. You know you have this advantage but you don't use it because... reasons. Also the further away you are from enemy mechs the less convergence matters and convergence is only applicable on the 6P. The others use only (or should) the torso mounts. Quirks like the PPC ones are sometimes traps (non anime kind).

Speed: Speed will allow you to keep that range on any mech that is as heavy, heavier and sometimes even lighter than you thanks to the engine cap. Remember the motto is don't get hit, it's as simple as that and with you taking smaller engines you are in fact, handicapping yourself. Might as well run any other 50t mech if you're not going to use an engine bigger than a 275. That's partly why those mechs need armor quirks, they don't have speed. I mean, if you can't keep range on a large number of mechs due to ignoring one of it's strengths, why bother with the Uziel at all?

Agility: With agility far better than any 50t mech and all but one 45t mech you're able to dodge most damage at the ranges you'll be engaging in most of the match. Any laser weapons able to reach you due to your range advantage will be mitigated by Superior Acell/Decell and turn rate/twist speed, partly because it'll only be longer burn time IS large lasers or Clan ER lasers that can reach you. Luckily this is the one stat you can't on purpose screw up since the engine change.

Terrain: Or rather hardpoint locations. This works in conjunction with Agility as well as Radar Deprivation to further reduce most incoming fire apart from the occasional blind sighted gauss or laser splash. Using terrain with a highly mobile, high speed and high weapon mounted mech is not a particularly high level skill to learn. JJs also play a big part here on some of the mechs as those will allow you to further utilise terrain and high mounted weapons to expose even less of your mech for even less time. The high mounted arm weapons is a plus here but for the most part to make the most of this particular advantage you need to focus almost exclusively on the side torso mounts

I would like to cover engines specifically as well. On just about every Uziel build you need to be running an XL engine. The core concept of the Uziel is to not get hit. I mean you will, eventually, but every single advantage it has is geared towards you not getting hit, but only if you make use of those advantages, especially by mounting a big XL engine. Sounds catch 22-ish but it's more zen like "Only by embracing your weakness can you overcome it" There are builds with huge LFEs though. You fear XL engines because you're used to running small engines and running close range builds. Run a bigger engine and longer range weapons and you won't have to fear XL engines. It's weakness is also the solution to that weakness.

End of the day the Uziel is a very different mech to what we've been used to and that's what makes it so damn interesting. This is a mech that has actual character, not just another copy paste, dumbed down, up armoured, slow as molasses, no character medium people faceplant into the enemy team because they can with every other medium.

People repeatedly thumb their nose at every single advantage the Uziel has, and that's very sad. People wanted mechs with character, mechs with roles, mechs with actual different play styles and when people get it they build it just like every other mech and cry when it doesn't work.I mean that's a special kind of special right there. You're not supposed to face tank with the Uziel. Sure, draw fire but don't actually get hit. I gave the builds that work but not surprisingly people dismiss them out of hand. You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Remember, (this is super important so pay attention) Compared to my other mechs I'm performing great in my Uziels. I've shown what is possible, that's the beauty of it. You say it can't be done but I've already done it so what you say does sound kind of silly from my point of view. You might not be capable, but the mech sure as heck is

Edited by ForceUser, 16 January 2018 - 07:13 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Revis Volek, on 16 January 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

Even just the 2 HLL 6 LMG builds would shred any Uziel, i dont see the comparison. Uziel is much worse.

When I say the UZL plays like a SHC, I mean if you cram a large enough engine in it, as many JJs as it can carry, then 2-3 PPCs/Large-class lasers. Then it can at least play a similar role of ranged harasser. Not as well as a SHC, but close.

[MechaBattler]

Also have to consider that it's high shoulder mounts are negated by it's low cockpit. You have to expose more to be able to see your target when compared to other mechs with high mounts.

[ForceUser]

MechaBattler, on 17 January 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Also have to consider that it's high shoulder mounts are negated by it's low cockpit. You have to expose more to be able to see your target when compared to other mechs with high mounts.

No worse than something like a Catapault, Marauder(IIC), Stormcrow, etc.

However it has no hardpoints below it's cockpit. That means if it can see something, it wont turf any shots due to low hardpoints. The mech is a long range and very offensive focussed mech first and foremost. Playing it like a bushwacker is the mistake of the pilot and not the mech.

Taking a lawnmower out to try and clear snow would reflect poorly on the intelligence level of the person doing so. This would be a similar case.

[MechaBattler]

Implying the rest of us are just stupid. Smooth.