26 replies to this topic

[Darrious Quinn]

I've been struggling with this chassis. Normally I can figure somethin well enough, but I don't no. Seems like every which way I go with it something seems wrong with it.

Clearly cant run an XL in it because of its landing pad sixed side torsos, but it just doesn't have the tonnage for a fast STD either. A modest FLE works, but I cant say I'm happy with that either.

This is what I'm currently working with now, having modest success do to its simplicity.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...84677182a1a4625

I am very curious about how the rest of you are building the other variants.

[Koniving]

If there's a Hellspawn pilot willing to aid me, I will make a quick hitbox slab for you to see what they really are, because I don't think they are as big as people think.

[TAKTCOM]

Darrious Quinn, on 15 December 2017 - 07:14 AM, said:

This is what I'm currently working with now, having modest success do to its simplicity.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...84677182a1a4625

I think you go in the wrong direction. All successful HELLSPAWN pilots that I saw in QP use SRM/ MRM mix with meds. Nevertheless I do not have this mech, so this is only a observation.

[Darrious Quinn]

Koniving, on 15 December 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

If there's a Hellspawn pilot willing to aid me, I will make a quick hitbox slab for you to see what they really are, because I don't think they are as big as people think.

I would love that if it were possible, because by Kerensky's Jock-Strap... out of 8 or so matches last night using the above build, I died as a naked, stripped stick with legs almost every time. Only got legged out once.

I do like the mech though. Maybe that's the MW4 nostalgia kicking in for me, but I do wish it was a little more nimble.. but I'm still unlocking mobility nodes, so I wont condemn it yet.

TAKTCOM, on 15 December 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

I think you go in the wrong direction. All successful HELLSPAWN pilots that I saw in QP use SRM/ MRM mix with meds. Nevertheless I do not have this mech, so this is only a observation.

I appreciate the observation Tak. I gave a MRM build a go a few times but I found the missile doors on the chest created an annoying delay which was throwing my timing and aim off. I like taking multiple MRM10s but I tried a larger MRM on the arm, which well.... its an arm. Now some of the other Variants may not have that problem and I'm looking forward to trying.

Edited by Darrious Quinn, 15 December 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[TAKTCOM]

Darrious Quinn, on 15 December 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

I gave a MRM build a go a few times but I found the missile doors on the chest created an annoying delay which was throwing my timing and aim off.

Oh. This. I have same problem on Kintaro and i found that missile doors can be forced open in settings->keyboard->weapon door toggle. However, I kind of remember that open reduce survival.

[Koniving]

Darrious Quinn, on 15 December 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

I would love that if it were possible, because by Kerensky's Jock-Strap... out of 8 or so matches last night using the above build, I died as a naked, stripped stick with legs almost every time. Only got legged out once.

I do like the mech though. Maybe that's the MW4 nostalgia kicking in for me, but I do wish it was a little more nimble.. but I'm still unlocking mobility nodes, so I wont condemn it yet.

Are you available? I'm in the game now.

[Briareus Hekatonkheir]

something like this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2fa59c8a26a626

[Darrious Quinn]

Koniving, on 15 December 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Are you available? I'm in the game now.

Naw I'm at work for another 5-6 hours

Briareus Hekatonkheir, on 15 December 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

something like this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2fa59c8a26a626

For the 9F? I will run that.
It just seem that the 7 Series of Hellspawn make no sense to me. I'll get over it. Once the 7D(S) challenge is done I will focus on the 8-series which seems to be better suited for our current battlefield.

[Ruccus]

I've found the builds that work for me use an LFE and are MRM based. I've also had limited success with a heavy PPC, though PPCs aren't my forte.

Depending on how much missile firepower versus energy firepower you want I'd suggest pairing MRMs and SL/ERSL where you'd rely on the MRMs and only use the lasers when enemies get close, or MRMs and MLs. The arm pod is also good for adding a rocket launcher if you have the spare tonnage though I've found myself adding an extra jump jet instead of a RL10 if I've got a spare half ton.

I haven't yet tried SRMs as a 45 ton mech is usually a bit fragile at brawling, but I may make an SRM build and guard an assault teammate to see how well it performs.

[TKG]

TAKTCOM, on 15 December 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

I think you go in the wrong direction. All successful HELLSPAWN pilots that I saw in QP use SRM/ MRM mix with meds. Nevertheless I do not have this mech, so this is only a observation.

Mine does not even use missiles and it's plenty deadly. This mech hinges on your pre-existing skills, if you drive an assasin, you already know what to do, this is doubled if you drove a Hellspawn in MW4.

Darrious Quinn, on 15 December 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

I do like the mech though. Maybe that's the MW4 nostalgia kicking in for me, but I do wish it was a little more nimble.. but I'm still unlocking mobility nodes, so I wont condemn it yet.

There is some practical advice in the posts above but it seems that a lot of these guys forgot the one thing that all the Hellspawn pilots learned in MW4, and that is that much like the shadow cat for the most part the hellspawn is designed as a skirmishing/harassment mech. It generally should not be on the front line next to things like centurions and enforcers taking punishment directly because it's not designed for that at all. Instead, it does better when you skirt around the battle and hit targets that aren't paying attention or ignore you or better yet are already opened up. I started scoring much higher in damage when I made my Paralyzer all-energy and upped it's speed with an XL. The speed unlocks are great but at most you might get 10 KPH on a max-engine Hellspawn, and light engines wont give you enough speed to be able to move about the battlefeild.

Darrious Quinn, on 15 December 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

I gave a MRM build a go a few times but I found the missile doors on the chest created an annoying delay which was throwing my timing and aim off. I like taking multiple MRM10s but I tried a larger MRM on the arm, which well.... its an arm. Now some of the other Variants may not have that problem and I'm looking forward to trying.

Your observation about the missile doors is 100% correct, it does delay the speed of missile firing noticeably by a few seconds which translates to more time exposed to the enemy's fire. For the hell spawn event I was driving a 9F last night with two MRM-10's in the left torso and found that I tended to take more damage overall because I had to wait around for the missile door to open. Worse yet the enemy would often shoot at the missile side of my torso once the door was open, fortunately I had CASE so it wasn't crippling if the ammo went off but still. You can counter this missile delay issue by using variants with arm mounted missile hardpoints then using chain fire mode you set the arm missiles to fire first and the chest ones last. This will make the delay less noticeable.

[Riller Nath]

So can we all agree the mech is too light to run lrms? I have been trying to make the stock loads work as I have lotsa fun with a lrm griffen 2n. The 10 ton difference just kills the ability to fire enough lurm to get hits through ams. Im not really comfortable in a harraser striker role, what would be some good support builds? Kinda heavy panther style or what?

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I have the collector pack and the hero, but not the reinforcements. I'm not sure yet if I want to upgrade for those or not; they seem interesting but I may have too much on my plate already.

HSN-7D(S)- general purpose skirmisher, MRM40+4xERSL+RL10. Decent results so far. Could drop the RL for that fourth full ton of ammo, but I like the one-time burst it adds and the range of the RL10 lines up nicely with MRMs. I may drop to a 255XL after getting speed tweak on it, because IMO 97-98kph is fast enough and the extra ton would really help since I have the slots left over to use it.

HSN-7D- LRMisher. Haven't taken it out yet. I'm not fond of LRMs, but since I had the spare chassis I figured I'd try it for giggles, then probably switch for something else. Maybe this or this.

Paralyzer- PPC 'tarting. HPPC+LPPC for the weight savings vs. 2xPPC. I will probably go down to XL255 after speed tweak to get another sink in there, with a teensy bit of armor shaving because of the need to drop FF. Or maybe add more jets, I dunno. It was a fun build. I also tried 2xSNPPC and that was fun too, but I wanted to keep the option for mid-long range poking.

HSN-8E- Splats and pews. Flamer for lulz. Drove it once, but the game was a roll so I didn't really get a feel for it. Might drop the Artemis for a bigger engine.

HSN-9F- Bigger splat with less pew and no Zippo. Haven't driven it but I can't see any reason why it shouldn't work.

All in all, it's a far better 'Mech than, for example, the Phoenix Hawk or Vindicator were when they launched. Part of that is the scaling, because it isn't as tall as a heavy, and part of that is actually having worthwhile durability quirkage (though IMO quirks for the RT and CT would serve the 'Mech better than the current LT/RA quirks). It's relatively quick, it's strange enough to be interesting, and it's got the right hardpoint mix for its tonnage. I like it. Seems good enough with XL- LFE would let you shield with the normally squishy RT, but I'm thinking that the larger alpha is worth sacrificing durability for, at least on this 'Mech.

[Chris Lowrey]

There seems to be some confusion here regarding the missile firing delay. This is not a permanent thing associated with the Hellspawn. Some 'Mechs in game have "missile bay doors." These apply to some 'Mechs and produce two different states, A Defensive state, and an Offensive state.

While in a defensive state, the door acts as a shield for the corresponding location reducing incoming damage inflicted on the location by 20% but also introduces a firing delay on any weapon attempting to fire from the location. While in an offensive state, the doors will remain open with weapons ready to fire at any moment without a delay, but this will also mean that you no longer benefit from the defensive bonus. Default key to toggle between these states is the "/" key, and this command is listed on the full keyboard layout in the academy and in our game manual. You may also re-assign this hotkey if you wish. Default state when entering the match is in the "Closed door" defensive state.

Just wanted to clear that up for players that did not know about this mechanic before.

[Koniving]

Had I seen the firing delay comment, I would have cleared that up already.

Also -- the reduction is 20% now? Had no idea this had ever improved. That would explain the extreme tankiness that my Archers have been exhibiting, as they house primarily LRMs behind the doors and so when I enter brawling range, the doors do not open. If each is reducing the damage by 20% that explains a lot. I was still under the impression of the old 10%.

Chris Lowrey, on 15 December 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

Just wanted to clear that up for players that did not know about this mechanic before.

Chris if I may ask as the manual has no mention of game mechanics (at least in regards to the door or any searchable test relating to missile or door), in the case of a certain Kintaro (the Golden Boy) that possesses two missile doors, does that stack twice or just once? And for that matter if it does stack twice, what happens if only one of the two doors opens to fire?

[WrathOfDeadguy]

...and also, could y'all maybe give the Centurions their missile doors back?

[Darrious Quinn]

Chris Lowrey, on 15 December 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

There seems to be some confusion here regarding the missile firing delay. This is not a permanent thing associated with the Hellspawn. Some 'Mechs in game have "missile bay doors." These apply to some 'Mechs and produce two different states, A Defensive state, and an Offensive state.

While in a defensive state, the door acts as a shield for the corresponding location reducing incoming damage inflicted on the location by 20% but also introduces a firing delay on any weapon attempting to fire from the location. While in an offensive state, the doors will remain open with weapons ready to fire at any moment without a delay, but this will also mean that you no longer benefit from the defensive bonus. Default key to toggle between these states is the "/" key, and this command is listed on the full keyboard layout in the academy and in our game manual. You may also re-assign this hotkey if you wish. Default state when entering the match is in the "Closed door" defensive state.

Just wanted to clear that up for players that did not know about this mechanic before.

Chris

Thanks much for the reply. I honestly forgot about the open door key. I should have known better just from my hours in a catapult. Still, thanks for the heads up.

[TKG]

Riller Nath, on 15 December 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

So can we all agree the mech is too light to run lrms?

I don't agree with that because I know the mech can use them it just requires differing tactics to make it work. You shouldn't compare it to other mechs because while it is similar (in that it's loadout has missiles) it's not the same as a panther or a griffin. The hell spawn is an entirely differing design with a different role in mind.

[Valpone]

I like LRM on my spawn, you can harass move and harass from a different angle, or sit with the fatties. I think mediums are best for Lrms especially if you do more than sit in one place and lob them from 900 m. It plays a bit like a shadow cat lrm boat

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Mediums in general make better LRMers (or, for Clans, the slower lights, since they can carry the same tube count with lighter launchers). They can reposition more easily, peek to get their own locks without as much risk, and- most importantly- if the person using the thing happens to be one of the cowardly breed who sits in the backline all game, at least they only wasted a medium's worth of armor rather than depriving the team of a heavy or assault up at the front. Since LRMs aren't hugely effective to begin with, it only makes sense to put them on the lightest platform that can take the weapons, ammo, and support equipment, leaving more tonnage for more effective direct fire builds in the heavier weight brackets.

Really, though, despite the 'Mech being billed as a LRM platform, the Hellspawn isn't ideal for it because PGI didn't specialize it for the purpose. The only 'Mechs that are truly good with LRMs are the ones with significant (10% or more) quirks for missiles, especially velocity quirks since those both decrease the amount of time a lock must be held for and shrink the engagement window for AMS on the enemy team. So, the 8E would be the best Hellspawn for LRMing, since it is the only one with velocity quirks... but none of the HSNs have, for example, velocity and cooldown, or velocity and spread reduction, or velocity and heatgen (or any combination of the above) like some of the other missile mediums (HBK-4J, TBT-3C, KTO-18, etc).

[Riller Nath]

Valpone, on 16 December 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

I like LRM on my spawn, you can harass move and harass from a different angle, or sit with the fatties. I think mediums are best for Lrms especially if you do more than sit in one place and lob them from 900 m. It plays a bit like a shadow cat lrm boat

I agree that mediums can make awesome lrm platforms, the hellspawn is unfortunatly not one of them. Not enough tonage for the tubes needed to get the missles home and enough ammo to do good damage. I figure that whenever you launch you should count on at least a quarter of the.missles missing. And if your firing into ams your gonna lose alot more potential damage. Note I am not talking about pelting an isolated fatty. I am talking about fire support from just behind the point of contact into the scrum. To make the lrms effective you have to shoot alot which is.tube count. You also have to do it for the whole battle which is ammo. The hellspawn cant carry enough tubes and ammo to make it worthwhile for me. If you have a functional lrm build that wont run dry after the first contact with the enemy I would love to see it. The griffen works cause it can lob lrms all day and quickly reposition. The hellspawn has the speed but I am having trouble getting enough ammo on the dang thing to last a battle.