118 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

I just barely started and looking for advice on first mech to buy. To give general idea about preferences:
- Absolutely in love with chicken-walkers.
- More prone into Heavies > Mediums, not sure which is best to start out though.
- Prefer toughness over mobility, more into being support/sniper, avoid brawls/cqc.
- Would like to have some mix of laser/missile loadout or ballistic/missile. Not really sure how most weapons work in this game yet, so that's up to free interpretation more or less...

Ran few matches on trial Ebon Jaguar, loved handling and gameplay feel, didn't like cockpit visibility and design. Is there a way to "test drive" mech before buying? Otherwise I guess you-tube would be my friend here...

Many people suggest Timber Wolf for newbies as mech is said to be quite versatile, but I'm not sure how outdated that info is. I like this mech by design, but by external design, Linebacker is probably best looking for me, and looks matter, a LOT.

Any suggestions would be very appreciated.

[Roughneck45]

Linebackers make good laser boats and SRM bombers, if you are going with rule of cool you could do worse. Timberwolves are very flexible with their loadouts but pay for it a bit with mobility and toughness.

You cant go wrong with any clan heavy and a bunch of lasers.

Edited by Roughneck45, 27 December 2017 - 06:23 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

From your voiced preferences, it sounds like you would probably enjoy the Mad Cat Mk II... (90t assault that acts like a tankier Timber Wolf) Also, yes, the Timber Wolf is still one of the best heavies in the game.

Mad Cat Mk II versions A and 4 would probably be your best bet for laser+missile builds. The B is good for ballistics. The Deathstrike is great at any non-missile combat. Really, the majority of the MCII variants have a great selection of hardpoints, and all are high-mounts. (meaning they are a lot easier to use when "hill humping")

[Dragonporn]

Yeah, thanks for proposals, after some side read, looks like Timber Wolf variants are what I need. But as a side option, what about Assault Mechs? Do they require specific skill set to be viable? Are they bad choice to learn game with? If those are ok, which one would you suggest?

[Zh0u]

I would suggest to avoid the timber wolf, as it tends to be a target magnet on the field.

I would suggest to go for one of the Omni mechs since you can swap pods and try different playstyle.

Personally I started with the Hellbringer, it has good speed, mainly torso mounting weapons (so you can learn how to twist and spread damage and also shield with your arms better). And it comes with ECM that gives you some form of protection against targeting.

Dragonporn, on 27 December 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

Yeah, thanks for proposals, after some side read, looks like Timber Wolf variants are what I need. But as a side option, what about Assault Mechs? Do they require specific skill set to be viable? Are they bad choice to learn game with? If those are ok, which one would you suggest?

I would not advise to get into assaults first. Because firstly they are less mobile, and once you choose to commit into a fight, you can't get out of it until either you or the target is dead. And assaults are important because they provide shielding to your other teammates too, so an Assault player really needs to be aware of when to engage and have to support your teammates, and in return, will need much support from your teammates too. If you push, and your teammates back off, you're dead.

BTGbullseye, on 27 December 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

From your voiced preferences, it sounds like you would probably enjoy the Mad Cat Mk II... (90t assault that acts like a tankier Timber Wolf) Also, yes, the Timber Wolf is still one of the best heavies in the game.

Mad Cat Mk II versions A and 4 would probably be your best bet for laser+missile builds. The B is good for ballistics. The Deathstrike is great at any non-missile combat. Really, the majority of the MCII variants have a great selection of hardpoints, and all are high-mounts. (meaning they are a lot easier to use when "hill humping")

I wouldn't suggest MKII as first mech as it requires MCs and it's an Assault mech. Heavy mechs are much more beginner friendly imo.

[The Basilisk]

Dragonporn, on 27 December 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

Yeah, thanks for proposals, after some side read, looks like Timber Wolf variants are what I need. But as a side option, what about Assault Mechs? Do they require specific skill set to be viable? Are they bad choice to learn game with? If those are ok, which one would you suggest?

To keep it short and simple:
"Do Assaults require certain skill sets?"
--> Yes...lots of experience

Or in more detail:
Since Assaults are a lot less maneuverable and a lot larger than heavys and mediums you are actually less survivable than in a well maneuvered medium or heavy.
To pilot an Assault to its full potential your skills are:

-- Advanced mapknowledge, you need to know travel distances from cover to cover very well cuz you are slow or where not to step cuz you may get stuck and you need distances between buildings or environmental features for your weapon to be fully effective

-- Timing, you need to know the tunes of the dance to gauge the ammount of dmg your team, yourself and the enemy inflicted/absorbed to know when to fully commit. Once you steped into battle it is hard to withdraw for an assault. So you need to cause a withdrawal on the enemy side or just outright kill your foe to be any good.

-- General battlefield awareness, since you are big and slow you always need to observe the movement patterns of your team and the enemy to find the right position....again you are slow so beeing out of position might just kill you without chance of correcting it --> if you are to taken up in how to maneuvre your mech or in shooting you will be too distracted to pay much attention to your minimap and thread indicators and sensor warnings

-- Armor usage. As assault you are driving a paradox. For your teammates you are a walking pool of hitpoints to be consumed by the enemy instead of them getting hit by the enemy. Sly foes will ignore assaults and kill mediums and heavys first to focus fire the big ones later. So it is your job to make enough noise to draw thread but not enough to get taken out of the game right away.
Anyway the assumption that an Assault is hard to crack is outright wrong.
Due to your slow pace and large hitboxes you are infact more vulnerable than most mediums. Your main defence is your cruel brutal firepower and the knowledge of your mech.
____________________________________________________________________________________
If you like lasers and missiles, be adviced that you selected the two hottest weaponsystems.
Beeing slow and hot is a tough choice. (the Timbi isn't exactly slow though...just got those nasty large ears)

Missiles and Ballistics can be good if you use shortranged heavy ballistics like large LB-X ACs and SRMs in moderately fast builds (around 70-80 kph)

The most effective uses for missiles or ballistics or lasers are, sadly though, to use them descretely, either or.
Sure bring some backup weapons...but concentrate on one role on one strategie.

Edited by The Basilisk, 28 December 2017 - 03:51 AM.

[Sunstruck]

Try the Ebon jag, theyre versatile, you can run what you want on it. If you want to try an inner sphere mech the Marauder sounds like what you'd like.

[IllCaesar]

It isn't a chicken walker but the Rifleman is currently on sale and has decent mix of ballistic and energy hardpoints while also fitting the sniper/support role more. The only tthre heavy chicken walkers that IS has are the Catapult, which does fit a support role but heavily leaning as a LRMboat, the Cataphract, which is a brawler, and the Marauder. The Marauder is on sale so you could swipe that up cheaply. Its a nice mech but like the Timber Wolf its an attention magnet.

As stated, for Clan heavies the Timber Wolf is a good choice but it does attract a lot of fire. I know its almost always my #1 priority. The Mad Dog on paper is a good fit for what you want and it is a decent mech but its one of the tougher mechs heavies to pilot well. The Ebon Jag is most likely your best bet for a clan heavy. Its got a good profile, is unnaturally durable, has a nice mix of weapons, doesn't attract too much attention, etc.

So yeah, Marauder for IS and Ebon Jag for clan

There are some decent chicken walkers in the medium range - the Crab and Bushwacker for IS and the Nova for the Clans being the best fits to your description. IS only has three of them at medium, one of which is the Cicada that is a no no no no no for you. The Clans have a lot of chicken walkers but the Nova is the best low profile/high damage medium they have.

Edited by IllCaesar, 28 December 2017 - 03:17 PM.

[Karl the Plumber]

Don't worry about the Timberwolf drawing a lot of fire: you'll be playing matches in tier 5 and that's where new players and people learning the ropes are. There isn't a lot of concentrated fire and strategy happening in your first matches. The Timber is a great mech to learn on.

[Leone]

The Basilisk, on 28 December 2017 - 03:50 AM, said:

Due to your slow pace and large hitboxes you are infact more vulnerable than most mediums. Your main defence is your cruel brutal firepower and the knowledge of your mech.

So true. If'n you are interested in assaults, I've a write up that may help ease you into 'em.

~Leone.

[Dragonporn]

Okay, thanks again for the tips, especially about Assaults, guess I'll stick with Heavies for now. Checked some footage of Marauder gameplay and I really liked it. Now I'm sorta torn between Timber Wolf and Marauder. It's on sale and that means I can outfit it faster. On plus side: it has even more visibility from cockpit and doesn't have giant "ears", though not sure how comfortable are its hands? And another thing: which one is more durable?

About Ebon Jaguar, yeah it's nice, but there are things I didn't quite like about it, and in comparison I'd rather get Timber.

On the side note: I don't really have a preference of IS or Clan, just wanna get comfortable first mech I hopefully won't regret buying. Still thinking, and while at it, I'll give a spin to more trial mechs, but in the mean time, would be great to see more opinions.

[Leone]

I feel the marauder is more durable. The arms catch shots easier, whilst the Timberwolf seems to lose side torsos much faster'n arms. At that point though, I'd play a few trial mechs on the clan an IS sides and decide which tech you like more, and pick that-a-way.

~Leone.

[Dragonporn]

Guess Marauder it is then. Took a look at some builds and I think those are gonna be quite fun:
1. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...65d477bb5e69194
2. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...00d0c71a08875ba

But can't decide which one to pick. I can't get both variants, and honestly I like more sticking to one at a time. I like first one for versatility - I can poke, fly, stay back and lay down LRM fire, but suppose in any medium or closer engagement I'll be toast.
Second variant should pack some serious punch, so I can do good damage on medium+ distances and don't be completely defenseless at closer ranges thanks to U-AC, plus it should be relatively easy to play.
Which do you guys think would be better option and why?

Edited by Dragonporn, 29 December 2017 - 01:31 AM.

[Brizna]

You made a good choice with Marauder, contrary to Timber that is in a bad spot at the moment and will become nearly unplayable as you face more skilled players, MAD is a decent mech at all skill levels.

On your 1st build:
Too much ammo, ¡¡¡XL!!!, a little too fast for a 75t long range heavy.
I suggest:
You had too much, each ton of LRM has 200 ammo, you had like 1600 ammo in total, you are not going to fire your LRMs 80 times in a match.
XL in a marauder is a BAD IDEA, IS(inner sphere) mechs with XL that lose a side torso DIE, so mechs that have easy to hit sides are big NONO for XL, since you are in a low tier and you are going to stay at range you could actually pull it off but it's still no the best idea, Light Engines won't get you killed on side torso loss, you will only lose speed and heat dissipation while still being lighter than standard engines.
Mandatory LRMs SUCK warning: Yes LRM are a very underpowered weapon that usually teach you to play in ways that are a detriment for you and your team wining, furthermore their effectivity plummets as the level of your opponents raises, you can search the forum on LRM for more detailed information on why it is so, that said they will work at low tier level.
Beagle Active Probe (BAP) will speed up target info gathering (tells you damage and weapon load out of your target) and let you deactivate ECM on nearly (250m?) enemy mechs which is immensely beneficial for someone who is likely to be in the back of his team in case you get flanked, if you target someone your team knows about him if you can't or decide not to (some people don't use R) target someone no one knows he is there so no one helps you
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4a7d77de71b7d29

Build 2: is solid but a bit too slow, I would swap the UAC5s for two AC5s they synergize much better with PPCs and this mechs geometry and improve a bit the engine with the freed weight.
UAC5 fire too fast you basically look AT something and spam bullets this prevents one of the basic moves that separates newbies from people who are on track to become pros.

TORSO TWISTING: To turn your torso to a side while your weapons reload or while going to be shot imminently to offer as target the most useless part of your mech so vital components are not damaged.

Marauders have very large side torsos so whenever you twist right your left torso and arm are going to catch practically all fire not directed at your legs, conveniently your build is a perfect example of asymmetrical build and all you left side is literally empty so losing it causes you to lose exactly ZERO combat performance. If done properly you can achieve impressive levels of tankiness. The most basic way of torso twisting consists on firing at the enemy and twisting while your weapons reload, then aim fire and torso twist again, well UAC5 are firing all the time so you don't torso twist. On top of that PPCs are a slow reloading weapon so they don't sync well with UAC5s, PPCs on reload while UAC5 ready to fire which also disrupts torso twisting.

Do be warned that your build is HOT, you can alpha once or twice but go beyond that before cooling down and you will shut down.
Also remember PPCs have a minimum range of 90m, fire at 90 or less meters and do ZERO damage while generating 100% of the heat.
Finally you mech is fantastic to shield with the left side, but its right profile is identical, meaning that if you find yourself flanked from the right side all your right side with all your weapons will "shield" all your useless left side, when this happens you will become what is known as a "stick", an useless unarmed joke of a BATTLEmech Be mindful of positioning (easier said than done)

GOOD LUCK.

Edited by Brizna, 29 December 2017 - 02:37 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Build #1:

This is built to use the left side for torso-twisting to shield from damage. I can tell you now that doesn't work effectively unless you're extremely proficient at it. (you'll likely just reduce the amount of shots you'll make at a target, and stay alive 5-10 seconds longer for no benefit)

Brizna, on 29 December 2017 - 02:32 AM, said:

each ton of LRM has 200 ammo

No it doesn't. It has exactly 180, and +18 for each "Missile Rack" skill node unlocked. (maximum total of 216/ton)

It is very conceivable that you will fire your LRMs 80 times or more in a single QP battle. (I do it quite often in my missile boats) Also, despite having many very significant hard counters to LRMs, they are great at making any level of player run for cover, and punishing them with damage if they don't. (unless they're running very heavy AMS, in which case, they already sacrificed other components to be an LRM shield)

I would also like to point out that in build 1 there are 3x Large Lasers... You can fire them all at once, but it's going to overheat you because of ghost heat. Reduce that to 2x Large Lasers, and 3x Medium Lasers, and you can fire them all without any ghost heat. ER Medium Lasers are even a similar range to the Large Lasers, and would be an excellent compliment.

Last thing I'd recommend... Don't bother with a single jumpjet. It's too weak to help you in combat, and until you know the maps it won't even help you get to a good vantage point.

Here's a rebuild that would be a good learning build IMO: MAD-5D
It will run a bit warm, but it has a much higher damage potential, and can facetank a lot more damage. (meaning you don't have to torso twist and lose your enemy when fighting, though you still need to use cover)


Build #2:

As Brizna pointed out, this is a very slow mech. 60.5kph will put you in back with the Annihilators. For a 75t heavy, this should be going a bit faster. (aim for 64kph+)

Torso twisting build again, and as I already said, very difficult to master. Unless you're really good with similar mechanics already, don't bother with it while you're still learning the game.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 29 December 2017 - 03:17 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Dragonporn, on 29 December 2017 - 01:30 AM, said:

Guess Marauder it is then. Took a look at some builds and I think those are gonna be quite fun:
1. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...65d477bb5e69194
2. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...00d0c71a08875ba

But can't decide which one to pick. I can't get both variants, and honestly I like more sticking to one at a time. I like first one for versatility - I can poke, fly, stay back and lay down LRM fire, but suppose in any medium or closer engagement I'll be toast.
Second variant should pack some serious punch, so I can do good damage on medium+ distances and don't be completely defenseless at closer ranges thanks to U-AC, plus it should be relatively easy to play.
Which do you guys think would be better option and why?

I would deem both builds extremely unsuitable for new players.
The LRM build tends to incite new players to stand back and lob missiles on nonvisible (sometimes nonhittable) targets and the XL will make you a free kill for any light mech.

The PPC and UAC Build is a highly specialized build for poking/burst dmg and then turning the empty cheek towards the enemy. A strategy that requires advanced map and combat knowledge since you wont be able to be engaged for any extended time.

Marauder builds I found to be fun and viable:

MAD-3R classic but still good even if a bit boring
MAD-3R bit more modern than that above but also a hell lot more expensive... you can go for a 300lfe and ER medium lasers and more heatsinks or even pulse lasers
MAD-3R for shortrange "killstealers" be warned this one requires some experience and timing.

MAD-5D in my opinion the weakest Marauder variant of them... but there you go.
MAD-5D some MRMs

[Horseman]

I run my 3R with UAC/20, 4xMPL and LFE300. It wrecks face.

[Dragonporn]

Really appreciate tip on engine, light would be better no doubt. I'll stick to 5D, gotta painful choice between several well built versions here though, haha. But have to say that I'm more prone into asymmetric builds. From very limited match making experience I instinctively tend to poke only one (right) side from cover and at some point I really have to learn twist, shield and spread damage. Asym build should be pretty good one to learn it with, eh?

Besides, LRM/Laser based MAD would be best choice because I really liked Medium mechs after some trial runs, and thinking to pick Nova next. It has pretty solid builds with PPC, AC and Lasers, no LRMs, so I'd have some variety there.

On the side note, with MAD-5D I like how versatile it is, if I don't make a good use of jump jets, I might swap it for more ammo, armor or something else I think.

Great tips though, thanks people. Please, keep posting if you gotta anything to add, it's very helpful.

[jss78]

I have more experience playing against Marauders than with them, but IMO they are extremely easy to take down if XL engined. Flip side of that coin, the tendency to take side torso damage enables them to make good use of an LFE by tanking with the sides.

I have my only Marauder set up like this -- 2xLPL 2xERML in the arms, RAC/5 for some sustained DPS when a target exposes himself, LFE-300.

Edited by jss78, 30 December 2017 - 04:02 AM.

[Broganos]

I like my MAD-3Rs to have 4 medium lasers and 2 LBX10s. It means running a standard, but the LBXs crit something cronic. Brutal late game. Otherwise, grab an AC20 and twist a lot to the right to protect that torso

Edited by Broganos, 29 December 2017 - 11:04 AM.