Jump to content

Centurion + Light Engine = Good Or Bad?


47 replies to this topic

#1 Dragoon20005

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSingapore

Posted 01 January 2018 - 06:12 PM

As an returning player from the pre light engine era

I know that a med mech with XL engine is just plain stupid build because one side torso go pop.

You are instantly dead in a match



light engine to my knowledge performs much like the Clan XL

where even with one side torso gone.

the mech can still be running about except that the speed will get a cut in performance



has anyone been running Light engine and able to gain some advantage?

this is the current setup that i am running

CN9-A(NCIX)


more speed? or more firepower?

Many thanks

#2 IllCaesar

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 980 posts

Posted 01 January 2018 - 07:16 PM

Most Centurions have significant zombie potential. The only one without two CT energy hardpoints is the AH and the chassis overall spreads damage quite well, having a natural deadside. With a Light Engine they slow down after losing a single side torso where with a Standard they could run at full speed while missing both side torsos. Just like in all of those B movies you've seen a slow zombie is an easily-killed zombie, especially when you'd certainly already have a fair bit of CT damage. The Light Engine also reduces the effectiveness of its aforementioned deadside and means that you'll frequently have to spread damage to your right arm, which will carry your primary weapon(s), just to avoid the speed and heat efficiency penalty.

Edited by IllCaesar, 01 January 2018 - 07:19 PM.


#3 Roughneck45

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Handsome Devil
  • The Handsome Devil
  • 4,451 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:14 PM

That build isn't going to be very deadly.

Your best bet with a cent is to load up on SRMs and a big engine or a big ballistic and lasers for backup. Standard or Light engine, whichever you prefer.

Edited by Roughneck45, 01 January 2018 - 08:14 PM.


#4 Dragoon20005

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSingapore

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:20 PM

View PostIllCaesar, on 01 January 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

Most Centurions have significant zombie potential. The only one without two CT energy hardpoints is the AH and the chassis overall spreads damage quite well, having a natural deadside. With a Light Engine they slow down after losing a single side torso where with a Standard they could run at full speed while missing both side torsos. Just like in all of those B movies you've seen a slow zombie is an easily-killed zombie, especially when you'd certainly already have a fair bit of CT damage. The Light Engine also reduces the effectiveness of its aforementioned deadside and means that you'll frequently have to spread damage to your right arm, which will carry your primary weapon(s), just to avoid the speed and heat efficiency penalty.



thanks for the insight

so my guess still stick with STD engine but add more speed instead?

#5 Dragoon20005

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSingapore

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:24 PM

View PostRoughneck45, on 01 January 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

That build isn't going to be very deadly.

Your best bet with a cent is to load up on SRMs and a big engine or a big ballistic and lasers for backup. Standard or Light engine, whichever you prefer.


i do agree i need to go big on firepower

but the original AC10 + LRM 10 and 2 MED combo did little to help carry my PUG teams

I only managed to get 3 assist and 1 spotting but also because i kinda rusty with my shooting and running around.

most of the time i just go kaboom because i was cored

My speed is prob my weakest point



edit:

i see some load up on rocket launchers

are they actually useful compared to Streak SRM6s?

Edited by Dragoon20005, 01 January 2018 - 08:27 PM.


#6 CFC Conky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 961 posts

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:27 PM

If you're going to put a light engine in your Cent, you might as well put an xl mill in there. The extra speed will help mitigate the vulnerability of the side torsos and you will be able to carry more firepower to boot.

Centurions are not particularly xl-friendly so think carefully before you do it. If you are new to Centurions you are better off staying with std engines until you have a bit more time in them, then fill your boots.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

#7 Dragoon20005

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSingapore

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:30 PM

View PostCFC Conky, on 01 January 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

If you're going to put a light engine in your Cent, you might as well put an xl mill in there. The extra speed will help mitigate the vulnerability of the side torsos and you will be able to carry more firepower to boot.

Centurions are not particularly xl-friendly so think carefully before you do it. If you are new to Centurions you are better off staying with std engines until you have a bit more time in them, then fill your boots.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky



Understood mate.

about firepower wise.

have you used Rocket Launchers?

#8 Roughneck45

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Handsome Devil
  • The Handsome Devil
  • 4,451 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:39 PM

Rocket launchers are okay. They are a single shot weapon so if you have the tonnage you could do worse.

Just don't bring LRMs, its not a good platform for them and it will be taking away tonnage from the better weapons you'll need.

I'd probably run something like these.

CN9-A(NCIX)

CN9-A(NCIX)

Edited by Roughneck45, 01 January 2018 - 08:53 PM.


#9 Dragoon20005

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSingapore

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:49 PM

View PostRoughneck45, on 01 January 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

I'd disagree. An XL on a cent is a death sentence IMO, at least when you are getting back into the game.

Rocket launchers are okay. They are a single shot weapon so if you have the tonnage you could do worse.

Just don't bring LRMs, its not a good platform for them and it will be taking away tonnage from the better weapons you'll need.


ah gotcha

so the rockets are like one shot shotguns



i will go with a STD 230 first and see if it improves my run and gun


Thanks for the help

#10 CFC Conky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 961 posts

Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:54 PM

View PostDragoon20005, on 01 January 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:



Understood mate.

about firepower wise.

have you used Rocket Launchers?


Don't use them myself, but I have died to them Posted Image .

View PostRoughneck45, on 01 January 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

I'd disagree. An XL on a cent is a death sentence IMO, at least when you are getting back into the game.

...


Which is why I also recommended staying with std engines until he gets used to driving the Centurion. You lose so much performance when losing a torso (LFE), that you might as well just go full xl and take your chances. I usually run std engines in them myself. The exception is the CN9-D; I run a 300xl in that one, with speed tweak I'm doing over 100km/h, which keeps me quite safe.

At least in quickplay...Posted Image

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

#11 Roughneck45

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Handsome Devil
  • The Handsome Devil
  • 4,451 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 01 January 2018 - 09:08 PM

View PostCFC Conky, on 01 January 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Which is why I also recommended staying with std engines until he gets used to driving the Centurion.

Yes, i quoted before i read fully, apologies, and edited.

Although I'd still say that losing performance > death.

Edited by Roughneck45, 01 January 2018 - 09:15 PM.


#12 CFC Conky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 961 posts

Posted 01 January 2018 - 09:28 PM

View PostRoughneck45, on 01 January 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

Yes, i quoted before i read fully, apologies, and edited.

Although I'd still say that losing performance > death.


Fair enough Posted Image .

#13 Void Angel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,631 posts
  • LocationParanoiaville

Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:41 AM

View PostDragoon20005, on 01 January 2018 - 06:12 PM, said:

As an returning player from the pre light engine era I know that a med mech with XL engine is just plain stupid build because one side torso go pop. You are instantly dead in a match light engine to my knowledge performs much like the Clan XL where even with one side torso gone. the mech can still be running about except that the speed will get a cut in performance has anyone been running Light engine and able to gain some advantage? this is the current setup that i am running CN9-A(NCIX) more speed? or more firepower? Many thanks
Well, I use an XL all the time in my Shadowhawk, but that's a specific build with a specific purpose and playstyle - not all builds and chassis can afford an XL, and some require one.

As for your main question; yes, Light Engines are a straight upgrade from Standards. They're essentially a nerfed version of the Clan XL. So, just retrofitting the build with an LFE means that you'll get Much Better Performance.

Now, your ammunition reserves for both ammo-hungry weapon systems seems rather low to me... With no points spent in cooldown reduction skill nodes, you've got one minute forty-eight seconds of combat on the AC/2, with only a minute and thirty seconds for the LRM15 - that's not going to last you long using what are essentially long-range harassing weapons. You do have the ERMLs in your CT, but once you're out of ammunition your ability to deal damage is sharply reduced. To that end, IF in your matches you are running out of ammunition, I'd recommend dropping the targeting computer - and/or one of your heat sinks (you got another engine sink from upgrading the engine) - to increase your ammunition load for one or both weapon systems.

#14 Void Angel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,631 posts
  • LocationParanoiaville

Posted 02 January 2018 - 07:55 AM

View PostDragoon20005, on 01 January 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

i do agree i need to go big on firepower but the original AC10 + LRM 10 and 2 MED combo did little to help carry my PUG teams


Yeah, that's not a very good build; it's likely a canon Battletech build, which don't always work well in the FPS environment of MWO.

To address some of the comments above, I have to point out that the zombie potential for any 'mech doesn't outweigh the opportunity costs of ignoring LFEs. You don't want to sacrifice the weight of weapons you could be carrying with an LFE for the dubious benefit of being able to run around without arms effectively (particularly since experienced players who see you effectively torso twisting will just shoot at your legs.) To fix the original build, do Something Like This. It's still low on ammo, so you might want to replace the Medium Lasers with (possibly ER) Small lasers for more ammo. (you'd have to go back to Light Ferro-Fibrous.) The famous durability of the Centurion works better for brawling builds where you don't have to stare downrange to keep those AC/2s on target and maintain a lock, anyway.

You'll want to try and play this build in a style I like to call the Hunchbuddy. Pick a large 'mech, preferably something that wants to fight at close to medium range, and follow them around engaging what they do. Stand behind them and to the side (to not block) and peek around corners just after they do; when they engage, go with them and flank their target if you can; punish any 'mechs who attempt to focus on your Big, particularly lights. If you can get a good Big, the Hunchbuddy will dramatically increase their effectiveness.

#15 Dragoon20005

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 512 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSingapore

Posted 02 January 2018 - 11:36 PM

View PostVoid Angel, on 02 January 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

Well, I use an XL all the time in my Shadowhawk, but that's a specific build with a specific purpose and playstyle - not all builds and chassis can afford an XL, and some require one.

As for your main question; yes, Light Engines are a straight upgrade from Standards. They're essentially a nerfed version of the Clan XL. So, just retrofitting the build with an LFE means that you'll get Much Better Performance.

Now, your ammunition reserves for both ammo-hungry weapon systems seems rather low to me... With no points spent in cooldown reduction skill nodes, you've got one minute forty-eight seconds of combat on the AC/2, with only a minute and thirty seconds for the LRM15 - that's not going to last you long using what are essentially long-range harassing weapons. You do have the ERMLs in your CT, but once you're out of ammunition your ability to deal damage is sharply reduced. To that end, IF in your matches you are running out of ammunition, I'd recommend dropping the targeting computer - and/or one of your heat sinks (you got another engine sink from upgrading the engine) - to increase your ammunition load for one or both weapon systems.


many thanks for the insight of the Light engine and possible tweaks to my build.

i def been away from Mechwarrior for too long like almost 2 years.

it was the Xmas event which brought me back. Hey you cant say no to free stuffs

As mentioned my shooting and movement skills is still on the rusty side. I know my way around older maps but still getting heading with the newer maps fine.

and yes i still kinda noob with the Centurion because my previous encounter with the Centurion was prob with Trial mechs in the beta stage.

I was quite Okish with the Stormcrow and Dire wolf so yea my other backup mech which i got now is the Dire Wolf Prime

As for my play style, I do attempt to assist my heavies and assaults when we get harassed by light and meds.

In the storm crow i able to net some med kills with the LBX 10 and LRG PULSE lasers



But i came from the older Mechwarrior series like 4 Vengeance, Black Knight and Mercenaries. So my play style is using long ranged weapons like the Clan Gauss, ER Large lasers and LRM 15/20s in my mix tech Atlas which has all Clan weapons.

My Brawling mech was the Black knight with Clan Streak SRM6, MRM 20s and RAC5 with ER Med and Lrg Pulses.

I also played the Mektek pack which has the other addition mechs

My history teacher also play Mechwarrior as well and his fav combo is the Stone Rino aka Behemoth with dual AC20s and plenty of AC20 ammo.

While my play style is just mount the Clan Rail gun and be the long range sniper of the team. And support with ER Larges as the rail gun is reloading.


View PostVoid Angel, on 02 January 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:


Yeah, that's not a very good build; it's likely a canon Battletech build, which don't always work well in the FPS environment of MWO.

To address some of the comments above, I have to point out that the zombie potential for any 'mech doesn't outweigh the opportunity costs of ignoring LFEs. You don't want to sacrifice the weight of weapons you could be carrying with an LFE for the dubious benefit of being able to run around without arms effectively (particularly since experienced players who see you effectively torso twisting will just shoot at your legs.) To fix the original build, do Something Like This. It's still low on ammo, so you might want to replace the Medium Lasers with (possibly ER) Small lasers for more ammo. (you'd have to go back to Light Ferro-Fibrous.) The famous durability of the Centurion works better for brawling builds where you don't have to stare downrange to keep those AC/2s on target and maintain a lock, anyway.

You'll want to try and play this build in a style I like to call the Hunchbuddy. Pick a large 'mech, preferably something that wants to fight at close to medium range, and follow them around engaging what they do. Stand behind them and to the side (to not block) and peek around corners just after they do; when they engage, go with them and flank their target if you can; punish any 'mechs who attempt to focus on your Big, particularly lights. If you can get a good Big, the Hunchbuddy will dramatically increase their effectiveness.



I am def rusty with my game here and my play style is def on the long range side due to my game experience with Mechwarrior 4 Vengeance, Black Knight and Mercenaries. And Mertek packs

In my previous PUG match a few years back, I was the volunteer drop commander calling out the target, location and using a bit of my comms skills which i learn from my national service in HQ Command and Signals.

Back then there was no such thing as the basic press E and select the call out

I have to used the Counter Strike and mix of other NATO call signs like

Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima for target call outs


And for movement i will use the below

All Units move to Charlie 5

All units take Alpha for resources capture.

Contact! Echo 5 I spot two lights

and then the Counter Strike call out

Taking Fire Need Assistance!

Ememy spotted at Delta 6


and then call out the targets and the weak points

like Echo Dragon, right torso damaged

Beta Shadow Cat, aim for the legs etc



For important targets to kill i will repeat again my comms

Target spotted at Echo 5

India is a King Crab

I repeat India is a King Crab, Echo 5



In the event i was killed mid way. I will just borrow my team POV and continue my target call outs and my success with some of the PUG matches was around 50:50

In some instances, i will just say good game and say sorry if we lost the match.

Most of them are cool with me but we do get some salty players time and time.
Thanks again for the build

#16 DodgerH2O

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 245 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:24 PM

Something to consider when you finally do buy XL engines either to try with your cent or for other mechs.

I use XL255, XL300, and XL280 in many builds because they are at "sweet spots" as far as tonnage/speed. There are steps where several different sizes will weigh the same amount, so if your specific mechs can use the higher size it's a waste of CB to buy the smaller rated engine.

If you like Centurions you are limited to XL275 for most models but it's not quite as efficient as the 280 (both have same weight but the 280 is ever so slightly faster, same with 255 vs 250).

Once you shell out on an XL I highly recommend swapping it out to test builds rather than buying another expensive engine. For quickplay and groups you can only use one mech at a time anyway, and it's worth (to me) the small inconvenience of having to swap out engines occasionally.

#17 WrathOfDeadguy

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pest
  • The Pest
  • 1,951 posts

Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:04 PM

I experimented with LFEs, but the only one of my Cents that really seems to like them is the Wang, which lately I've been running like this to very good effect- combined with a nearly maxed-out survival tree. Bit light on ammo, but if your shot placement is good you don't need all that much, and the tonnage spent on the SNPPC is absolutely worth it for the snap-fire ability that you just don't get with the more traditional 2xMPL CT setup.

My AH is back to its old XL255 because it just had to give up too much for the LFE. I tried a UAC20+3xSRM2 build on it, which was good fun, but ultimately less effective. It wrecks face just fine with AC20+3xSRM4; the only newtech on the build now is LFF for that extra half-ton of whatever. I think I'm likely to switch my A(NCIX) back to XL, too, after a few less-than-stellar turnouts with its current build. It'll likely get a hybrid combination of my Wang and AH builds, like... this, maybe? Haven't tried either the D or AL with LFEs because I don't have them anymore.

#18 Throe

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 1,018 posts
  • Locationdraiocht is a terrible mod

Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:31 PM

I would take a minimum of a 250 engine on this. An LE allows you *far* more build flexibility.

Three things to think about here, regarding your weapons choices: First, the AC/2 requires too much "facetime" to deal respectable amounts of damage by itself. If you're going to use the AC/2 as a valid platform, I recommend no fewer than 4 of them on any given loadout. This pretty much limits you to only heavy or assault 'Mechs.

Secondly, LRMs are a highly situational weapon that only really has any great power when your whole team is running some, or if you have several heavy missile boats on your team to join up with. It's a strength in numbers issue. A single AMS can only shoot down so many missiles, so the more missiles are coming in at once, the less effective AMS is as a form of damage mitigation. Most people I know are of the opinion that if you are going to bring LRMs at all, you should be running a TAG laser as well, because relying on your team for locks is a bad strategy.

That is to say nothing of players who know how to use cover effectively to either run down your ammo or get within your minimum range, which effectively eliminates half your firepower. You'll notice as you progress and get better and better at this game, your opponents will get better and better at making your LRMs ineffective against them(this is why LRMs are almost never used by competitive teams). This is also true to slightly lesser degree in Faction Play.

For this reason, I also recommend playing primarily without AMS, because learning how to avoid LRM fire, and how to properly spread damage when faced with incoming LRMs, are both critical skills if you want to seriously improve your overall gameplay. AMS can have practical uses, and boating AMS can be fun too, but normally, you should try to play without it most of the time.

Lastly, two secondary considerations for any weapons loadout is range and cooldown convergence. If your weapons have good convergence, it gives you a clear and obvious way to use them. If all your weapons can strike at a certain optimal range, then you know about where you need to stay in relation to the enemy in order to be effective.

All that combined makes me want to recommend this build as a great alternative to what you've posted, to say nothing else of the problems I saw with that original build:
https://mwo.smurfy-n...9c94292acf1fc5e
With this build, your effective range is ~500m. Closer, and you're going to be more effective, of course, as your LB-10X AC and MRMs get better localization of damage at shorter ranges, and your laser damage goes up all the way down to 360m. You still have the ability to get assists out to 1620m too, since the range multiplier on LBX autocannons is still 3x. Beyond that, I wouldn't concern myself too much with attempting to fight at long range. If you are, you should go with ERPPCs and/or Gauss Rifles exclusively(or the aforementioned 4 each AC2s(even better is 4 each LB2-X ACs, with their insane 2430m base range).

Edited by Throe, 05 January 2018 - 02:36 PM.


#19 Ertur

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 550 posts

Posted 20 January 2018 - 09:21 AM

As a general rule of thumb, if an IS mech has head or CT weapons I think twice, three times, and then three times again before dropping the STD engine. Sure having extra speed or available tonnage is nice for the early game, but in the late game when every mech is half dead a couple of medium lasers can make all the difference.
On the flip side, a mech with all of its hardpoints on one side, like the GRF-1N, there's no reason not to run XL or LFE except cost.

#20 SilentScreamer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 553 posts

Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:54 AM

View PostDragoon20005, on 01 January 2018 - 06:12 PM, said:

As an returning player from the pre light engine era

...

this is the current setup that i am running

CN9-A(NCIX)

more speed? or more firepower?

Many thanks



View PostRoughneck45, on 01 January 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:



View PostVoid Angel, on 02 January 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:


View PostDragoon20005, on 02 January 2018 - 11:36 PM, said:


As for my play style, I do attempt to assist my heavies and assaults when we get harassed by light and meds.

In the storm crow i able to net some med kills with the LBX 10 and LRG PULSE lasers

But i came from the older Mechwarrior series like 4 Vengeance, Black Knight and Mercenaries. So my play style is using long ranged weapons like the Clan Gauss, ER Large lasers and LRM 15/20s in my mix tech Atlas...

I am def rusty with my game here and my play style is def on the long range side due to my game experience with Mechwarrior 4 Vengeance, Black Knight and Mercenaries. And Mertek packs

In my previous PUG match a few years back, I was the volunteer drop commander calling out the target, location and using a bit of my comms skills...

In the event i was killed mid way. I will just borrow my team POV and continue my target call outs and my success with some of the PUG matches was around 50:50

In some instances, i will just say good game and say sorry if we lost the match.

Most of them are cool with me but we do get some salty players time and time.
Thanks again for the build


Both the LFE and XL engine can be used. Voidangel's build or Roughnech's second suggestion should work well. Also consider the role/playstyle you described filling on your team. Both those builds can keep up with your team's heavy/assaults, but do not have the speed or firepower to hunt mechs solo or lead the charge. Stick close to a big friendly mech. Do NOT be a lone-wolf or get caught in front of your allies.

Seems like in the example you gave you stepped out too soon and got shot up for it. PUG teams are difficult to read, it is generally a good idea to stay conservative, especially piloting a IS medium mech. Zombie centurions leading the charge is a thing of the past so I would avoid Roughnech's first suggestion (STD eng w SRM and 2xMPL) as it is a close range brawler. That was the popular build back when teams were 8 mechs per side and before Kodiaks were stomping around. Mechs these days pump out too much damage for a Centurion to complete a charge with being reduced to a smoking heap.

Keep up the communication and positive attitude, it will pay off!

Edited by SilentScreamer, 20 January 2018 - 11:13 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users