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Are Xl Engines Worth The Danger?


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#1 Gallius

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 03:00 PM

Pretty much every IS build I've seen, whether on MechSpecs, YouTube, or elsewhere involves an XL engine. While I understand the allure of extra tonnage and speed, XL engines seem almost suicidal if you're doing anything other than poking from cover, but I even see brawlers built with them. It basically negates shield-side builds, and if you're trying to spread damage evenly you can still just get unlucky and explode.

Is there a reason I'm missing as to why people seem so comfortable running XL instead of LFE? LFE seems like a better option in nearly all cases; if you lose both side torsos you're probably a stick anyway, so you may as well take the weight reduction. I'm guessing the meta prefers TTK/glass cannon builds over more conservative setups, which makes enough sense for high-level play, but seems very odd to suggest for most QP pilots.

#2 mailin

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:25 PM

It really depends on the mech. If it has a weapon in the CT don't run a LFE if you wouldn't run an XL (Some Stalkers).

#3 Tesunie

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:36 PM

View PostGallius, on 09 January 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Pretty much every IS build I've seen, whether on MechSpecs, YouTube, or elsewhere involves an XL engine.


A lot of that information you are seeing was very likely produced before LFE was in the game. A lot of people still run older builds on their mechs, and a lot of people see look to references and not realize the date of them.

Reminds me of someone asking why one of the commonly suggested builds for the Crab involved an XL engine in it. It was an older build, and the posts and information he was looking at was before the new tech came into the game.

XL still has it's place, depending upon the build, the mech, and the intention behind the choice. It's all a matter of if you are willing to take the risk and/or think it's worth the potential reward.

#4 Gallius

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:42 PM

View PostTesunie, on 09 January 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:


A lot of that information you are seeing was very likely produced before LFE was in the game. A lot of people still run older builds on their mechs, and a lot of people see look to references and not realize the date of them.


Makes sense. I spent an hour or two on my first day trying to figure out what I had to do to unlock modules, since everyone talked about them and I couldn't find where they were.

So basically just use common sense when you make a build, and probably be extra suspicious of anything written out online. Okay, fair enough. Thanks for the replies.

#5 Tesunie

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:45 PM

View PostGallius, on 09 January 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:


Makes sense. I spent an hour or two on my first day trying to figure out what I had to do to unlock modules, since everyone talked about them and I couldn't find where they were.

So basically just use common sense when you make a build, and probably be extra suspicious of anything written out online. Okay, fair enough. Thanks for the replies.


Just be mindful of the posting date. Some old information is still relevant, where as other sections may now. So take anything before new tech (released in July I believe) with a grain of salt.

#6 Koniving

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 09:59 PM

I am pretty comfy with an XL engine if the mech's side torsos are easily defensible or if the mech's relies on heavy weaponry.

I prefer smaller XL engines in fact. Big ones means speed. Speed draws attention with an obvious "that's an XL"

Slower mech's make you ask "is that an XL? Nah probably not."

#7 justcallme A S H

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 10:09 PM

It totally depends on the mech and the build in question.

A lot of the MetaMechs stuff has actually changed in META and not been updated. So a XL is no longer required in some instances. This is mainly in Laser builds as per the last laser "balance" pass which was more a nerf to stuff that didn't need it...

What I mean by this is that builds like THIS are now not as viable as builds like THIS because IS LPL was unnecessarily hit with the nerf-hammer. So there is no reason to take it now with a XL build for less dmg over a LFE build can now output at a much better range.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 09 January 2018 - 10:10 PM.


#8 PoohPuss

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:30 AM

I had no idea there was anything to the engine-types beyond the tradeoff between slots and tonnage. Where can I find specs on components that doesen't show up in the tooltips ingame?

#9 justcallme A S H

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:20 AM

Links I posted above, Smurfy. Lets you play around and work it out. Also hovering over on right hand bar will tell you

#10 CFC Conky

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 01:08 PM

I still run a lot of IS mechs with xl engines. I use mobility/speed as a type of armor and I have to always be mindful of my positioning and damage, which helps my overall gameplay.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

#11 stealthraccoon

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 01:29 PM

I always use XL’s, ST death is just the price I pay for a few more tons/KPH

#12 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:24 PM

View Poststealthraccoon, on 10 January 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

I always use XL’s, ST death is just the price I pay for a few more tons/KPH

Just to add, basically that is the penalty for using an isXL in an attempt to utilize as much weight savings as possible, just as the Clans with cXL for their mechs, both omni (fixed) and battlemechs but which the cXL a Clan mech does not die when it loses one side torso. The really sad thing is that IS components are not heavier but take up more space.

The initial reason for the isXl - one side torso is from the boardgame's 3 engine crit rule. 3 engine crits and the engine scrams. But PGI never did implement a fully functional engine crit system as they had said they were looking into several times, nor has Chris followed up on balancing out the cXL/isXL he said he would do during the Skill Tree update.

#13 Koniving

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:39 AM

View PostPoohPuss, on 10 January 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

I had no idea there was anything to the engine-types beyond the tradeoff between slots and tonnage. Where can I find specs on components that doesen't show up in the tooltips ingame?

Smurfy is good for that.

The specific trade offs are as follows:
Standard engine -- die by CT, legs or head.
IS XL engine -- die by CT, 1 ST, legs or head.
Light Fusion Engine -- Die by CT, if 2 STs are destroyed, legs or head.
Clan XL engine -- Die by CT, if 2 STs are destroyed, legs or head.

Reason: Engines in the source material are destroyed to a nonfunctional state if 3 slots are destroyed out of the 8 to 10 to 12 slots. IS XL engines have 3 slots in a side torso.

Note: If PGI activated an actual function to the engine health (which can go to zero and do nothing to you in MWO), the engine disparity would matter considerably less since you would then be able to destroy the engine without destroying any torsos.
....certain weapons, especially machine guns, would consequentially get huge nerfs after becoming the best weapons in the game.

#14 Spheroid

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:28 AM

Yes, absolutely.

LFEs are hot garbage by the way. Don't be tempted.

#15 PoohPuss

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:10 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 10 January 2018 - 04:20 AM, said:

Links I posted above, Smurfy. Lets you play around and work it out. Also hovering over on right hand bar will tell you


Maybe I'm being blind. I cannot find any info on the "dangers of using an XL engine" on neither of the links you provided, the smurfy engine overview, or any other place I've searched. Only tonnage vs slots.

#16 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 04:13 AM

View PostPoohPuss, on 12 January 2018 - 03:10 AM, said:


Maybe I'm being blind. I cannot find any info on the "dangers of using an XL engine" on neither of the links you provided, the smurfy engine overview, or any other place I've searched. Only tonnage vs slots.

You would appear to be correct, I sure was not able to find anything there on the dangers of equipping an isXL over LFE or STD. And just think, newbies who are new to the IP will not know that information, spend funds on isXL engines and die to the loss of a side torso while other mechs march on, those equipped with LFE/STD/cXL (Clan mechs)

#17 Shu Horus

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:42 AM

View Poststealthraccoon, on 10 January 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

I always use XL’s, ST death is just the price I pay for a few more tons/KPH


The advantage is actually not that big, as some people like to exaggerate. Yes the loss of a side torso containing an XL-engine means instant death for an IS mech, while a Clanner would not instantly fall over, but and that's something some people like to forget, it does cripple a Clanner to a point were death is almost certain.

The most common situation most Clan mechs face when losing a full side torso is:
You have about one last Alpha before you are going down anyways.
Which in many cases is right in the next second as players are not that fastly aware of the situation of losing the side torso.
They do not recognise it quick enough, do not compensate for all the lost heat sinks going along with it, are surprised by the sudden slowing down of the Mech and all of this, while they are in the middle of a firefight (which usually means they are already running redline with their heat).

My personal experience:
9 of 10 Clan Mechs running an XL blow up right within the next 2 seconds after having one ST being ripped of, mostly because of overheating right into oblivion.


Yes, there is an advantage to the Clan XLs. But the downside of the IS XLs is not as severe and balance breaking as some people like to depict it.

Cheers,
Nuit

Edited by Shu Horus, 12 January 2018 - 05:43 AM.


#18 Koniving

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:45 AM

Am sad. Just wrote out the dangers and like...got overlooked. :(

Sites don't cover them because it is assumed that you know, or would find out through a place like...here...from people like...me...

...Posted Image

#19 Feezou

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:01 AM

I got a Dragon to go 97.2 KPH. Felt worth it.

#20 Tesunie

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:53 AM

View PostSpheroid, on 12 January 2018 - 12:28 AM, said:

Yes, absolutely.

LFEs are hot garbage by the way. Don't be tempted.


Not always (to your first section), and no, LFEs are actually really good.

Of course, depends upon what mech and loadout you are playing. LFE's was really helpful for a mech like my Zeus, which restored it from "barely working, take something else" to "this is viable and fun to use". My Crabs also tend to like LFEs over XL engines (though a STD engine can still be worth it), with those large side torsos.

Basically, in most cases, the LFE is better the heavier your mech is. For example, a Zeus is a walking coffin with an XL engine, considering how easy it is to take off a side torso, much like a Stalker as well. But taking a STD engine in it and it tends to be too slow or under armed. With a LFE I can now achieve (with relative safety) a reasonable mix between speed and fire power, without crumpling at the first sight of an enemy.


So... I'm going to have to say that, no. LFEs are a really good upgrade for IS tech, depending upon what you are looking to get out of it. No more does a Boar's Head Atlas need to debate between going as fast as it can (it's the only Atlas I know of with an engine cap of 400) and risk death instantly via side torso lose and weapons, or going the same speed as every other Atlas out there with a STD engine... Now it can take the middle road with a LFE engine and get more use out of it's armor. (Sometimes, taking hits for your team is just as helpful as dealing damage. A mech that died from a single side torso destruction stops taking hits. When that mech is an assault mech... And yes, people shoot at mechs that have no weapons left all the time.) Nothing is more disappointing than to see an ally Assault drop with full armor nearly everywhere else and only missing a side torso.





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