100 replies to this topic

[Dajegas]

Hello all,

I'll start saying I'm a relatively new player as I started not even one year ago. When I started playing Faction Scouting I found it quite attractive because of the good mix of quick games and the tactics involved. Maybe it was due to my lack of experience but I did find it even balanced. Then in the last year a lot has changed, new mechs have been provided to us (some good, some awesome, some meh...) but Faction play and especially Scouting has seen no change at all.

So my point is, does it still make sense to have Clan limited to 50 tons after IS received the BSW and the ASN and the new tech advance revamped GRF KTO and WVR just to say those few that come to my mind now?

Do people really think that an SCR would make the game imbalanced when fielded against a streak KTO or a ballistic BSW?

Looking forward to hear your feedbacks and see you all in the field!

Edited by Dajegas, 03 January 2018 - 02:57 AM.

[zzoxx]

I agree, stormcrow and clan decks in general have some strong counterparts on the IS side, thanks to BSW and ASN. Maybe PGI will not touch it yet bc the ASN will get his well deserved nerf soon anyway ?

[Bishop Six]

Sure, give Clan the 55 tons back, for this make some nerfs on (all) Clanner-Speeds and take out the range advantage. Then i'm fine with that.

[Dajegas]

Bishop Six, on 21 December 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

Sure, give Clan the 55 tons back, for this make some nerfs on (all) Clanner-Speeds and take out the range advantage. Then i'm fine with that.

You fight at range in Scouting? Seriously? I must have missed something then, but as I said, I'm rather new

[Bishop Six]

ALL mechs, i am talking about Scouting AND Invasion.

[Dajegas]

Bishop Six, on 21 December 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

ALL mechs, i am talking about Scouting AND Invasion.

Might be a good practice to read the topic title before posting...

[Bishop Six]

Eh i did. You make demands, so did i.

You think Scout is imbalanced, so do i think about Clan vs. IS.

You suggested something, so did i.

You think these 5 tons have a negative impact on your experience of playing as clanner. So do i think, that the speed of ALL Clan-Mechs and their range have a negative impact on my experience of playing IS.

You demand something, i would agree, but how you can see, "our" side also have some wishes

[Curccu]

Bishop Six, on 21 December 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

Eh i did. You make demands, so did i.

You think Scout is imbalanced, so do i think about Clan vs. IS.

You suggested something, so did i.

You think these 5 tons have a negative impact on your experience of playing as clanner. So do i think, that the speed of ALL Clan-Mechs and their range have a negative impact on my experience of playing IS.

You demand something, i would agree, but how you can see, "our" side also have some wishes

Dajegas DEMANDED what and where?

[Bishop Six]

Ok, I'm out...IS OP, pls nerf...

[Dajegas]

Bishop Six, on 21 December 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

Eh i did. You make demands, so did i.

You think Scout is imbalanced, so do i think about Clan vs. IS.

You suggested something, so did i.

Demand what you want in your own topic, do not try to derail others. Basic forum rules of conduct, ever heard of them?

Bishop Six, on 21 December 2017 - 03:35 AM, said:

You think these 5 tons have a negative impact on your experience of playing as clanner. So do i think, that the speed of ALL Clan-Mechs and their range have a negative impact on my experience of playing IS.

Do not tell me what I think.
Having played Scouting on both IS and Clan sides, I had the strong impression that is very difficult to lose in Scouting while playing with IS mechs, and I cannot help but notice that a ballistic or SRM BSW has nothing to fear from a SCR.
Limiting Clan tonnage to 50 might have been a good solution in the past but many things happened since then: new mechs came, times change, meta game changes, the only thing that stays the same is prejudice...

Edited by Dajegas, 21 December 2017 - 04:54 AM.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Dajegas, on 21 December 2017 - 04:43 AM, said:

Demand what you want in your own topic, do not try to derail others. Basic forum rules of conduct, ever heard of them?



Do not tell me what I think.
Having played Scouting on both IS and Clan sides, I had the strong impression that is very difficult to lose in Scouting while playing with IS mechs, and I cannot help but notice that a ballistic or SRM BSW has nothing to fear from a SCR.
Limiting Clan tonnage to 50 might have been a good solution in the past but many things happened since then: new mechs came, times change, meta game changes, the only thing that stays the same is prejudice...

What on earth are you talking about, in what way is anyone being prejudiced?

Bishop made a comment about the mechs, range can be an issue when clan SSRMS are much longer range than IS and the stormcrow can boat 5 of them. Speed because the weapon systems widely used in scouting are half the weight of the IS equivalent so in order to be able to mount the same effective weaponry on an IS mech you would need to be moving slower which is a disadvantage in a game mode that involves high levels of mobility so his comments are entirely relevant.

Maybe being in Germany means that English is not his first language and something is lost in translation and context but the role of a forum is to discuss what is meant and come to understanding rather than you telling him what he said.

Personally I don't really see the need for the 50 ton cap anymore as the huntsman and nova are better anyway, the only real threat I can see from the storm crow is a kiting SSRM boat which would take advantage of both the increased range and speed compared to other mechs which is exactly the 2 areas which Bishop raised.

[Bishop Six]

UnKnownPlayer, on 21 December 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

What on earth are you talking about, in what way is anyone being prejudiced?

Bishop made a comment about the mechs, range can be an issue when clan SSRMS are much longer range than IS and the stormcrow can boat 5 of them. Speed because the weapon systems widely used in scouting are half the weight of the IS equivalent so in order to be able to mount the same effective weaponry on an IS mech you would need to be moving slower which is a disadvantage in a game mode that involves high levels of mobility so his comments are entirely relevant.

Maybe being in Germany means that English is not his first language and something is lost in translation and context but the role of a forum is to discuss what is meant and come to understanding rather than you telling him what he said.

Personally I don't really see the need for the 50 ton cap anymore as the huntsman and nova are better anyway, the only real threat I can see from the storm crow is a kiting SSRM boat which would take advantage of both the increased range and speed compared to other mechs which is exactly the 2 areas which Bishop raised.

Thank you very much!

In german the word "demand" (=fordern) isn't really a thing of effrontery. We have many different words for an action, so thank you for pointing that out.

And yes, that was my intention, he asked for feedback, i gave feedback.

I mean one day after a FP event started, i can read such threads here. Btw an IS pilot started a similar (=not the same) thread, that it is difficult to get 250 matchscore in scouting. An IS pilot.

[ApexSun]

I know that every time I am staring through the cockpit window of my BSW-X2 at a dual LB20X Hunchback, a 12xERSL Nova, and a pair of poptarting ATM24 Huntsman mechs I am thinking to myself that I have these clanners right where I want them. Not. The better pilots will carry the day under the current system. Some folks just can't get used to the idea that the clan shouldn't always dominate the IS.

[Dajegas]

UnKnownPlayer, on 21 December 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

What on earth are you talking about, in what way is anyone being prejudiced?

Bishop made a comment about the mechs, range can be an issue when clan SSRMS are much longer range than IS and the stormcrow can boat 5 of them. Speed because the weapon systems widely used in scouting are half the weight of the IS equivalent so in order to be able to mount the same effective weaponry on an IS mech you would need to be moving slower which is a disadvantage in a game mode that involves high levels of mobility so his comments are entirely relevant.

Maybe being in Germany means that English is not his first language and something is lost in translation and context but the role of a forum is to discuss what is meant and come to understanding rather than you telling him what he said.

Personally I don't really see the need for the 50 ton cap anymore as the huntsman and nova are better anyway, the only real threat I can see from the storm crow is a kiting SSRM boat which would take advantage of both the increased range and speed compared to other mechs which is exactly the 2 areas which Bishop raised.

Bishop Six, on 21 December 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

ALL mechs, i am talking about Scouting AND Invasion.

Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

When you come in a thread where there is a very specific topic and you start asking for a clan nerf tout-court I call it prejudice.

And no, range in Scouting does not play an important role, all Scouting matches end up in a brawl and when your enemy is 50 meters away neither range nor mobility give much advantage. Armor and structure make a bigger difference. However, weapon balance is not in any way the object of this thread.

Edited by Dajegas, 21 December 2017 - 12:07 PM.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Weapon balance IS the topic of this thread as it is integral to the question of balance in scouting, if the tonnage limit is to be changed then it needs to take in to account balance of the stormcrow which includes armour, speed, hitboxes, weapons loadout etc.

Not all scouting matches result in just a brawl, i have seen some involve kiting, ranged laser snipes, ATMs, LRMs, extreme range SSRMs etc.
Mobility is the BIGGEST factor in winning a brawl on equal terms, if you can twist, turn and jink better than your opponent you will beat them, if you can dictate the range of engagement then you can dictate the battle and fight it on your own terms.


Maybe the prejudice is yours as you are insisting that these things NEVER happen when i have definitely witnessed them myself, or maybe we shouldn't throw pejorative terms at each other in the forums and treat other people's opinions with the respect they deserve?

Either way have the stormcrow back by all means, it's easier to kill.

[Charles Sennet]

The general consensus is the IS has the advantage at short range, Clans in the middle. The problem is that Scouting, and most of FP, force short range confrontations. Add to this the IS tonnage advantage, and OP mechs (ASN, ANH, CRB, et al) of which Clans have no direct answer at the same tonnage level, and you have a mess for balance which certainly does not favor Clans atm.

Additional fun facts:
-IS has the fastest mech in the game (matters for domination, conquest, and scouting)
-IS has the lightest mech in the game (matters for drop deck options)
-IS has the tankiest mechs in the game (matters for objective modes like Siege and Domination)
-IS has the most OP mechs currently in the game (see above)
-IS has the ability to fire 3 LL without ghost heat penalty (higher DPS at range)
-IS has a better skill tree with higher values in some regions
-IS has 300 extra tons in FP and 20 tons in scouting (tons matter a ton)

I get the load out efficiency benefits that Clans have, but at some point, enough is enough. When Clan was OP, boy did we hear it from the IS fanboys. Now Clanners have to be more vocal about the current state of things or nothing will change.

Thanks for your poll and post.

Edited by Charles Sennet, 21 December 2017 - 09:22 PM.

[50 50]

Given the Clan only has the Stormcrow as an option at 55 tons, at least until the Black Lanner arrives, increasing the tonnage limit doesn't do that much.
The Stormcrow might have been the premier mech in the medium class at one point but I don't believe that is the case any more.
How many of them do you see in any game mode these days?

[justcallme A S H]

The main difference is the Bushie and the fact that SSRM doesn't kill them easily.

Bring proper mechs with proper builds (not SSRM) and you'll find you're success rate will change markedly.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Oh ASH arrived, thread will be locke......... wait, sensible response, argh brain explosion.

Also fair point.

[DevlinCognito]

You all need to stop looking at yourselves as 'IS' or 'Clan' players, and instead think of yourselves as 'players' or this game will continue to bleed people playing it profusely. There is a reason why the most effective units playing are Merc, because they get to see the advantages that BOTH sides get and the best units play to that sides tech advantages. If you can't make a 50 tonne Mech, able to jump and move at 87 armed with 6SRM6 work for you, it's not the other side being OP that is the issue. If you can't make a dead sided 4 SRM6 tanky medium with low slung chassis work for you, it's not the other side being OP that is the issue.

Do the Clans really need the Stormcrow back in scouting? Being able to outrun, outrange and out gun the most viable IS Mech is a tad unbalanced I feel don't you? Clans already have the chance to do any two of these, I don't feel they need all 3.