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Inner Omni's When?


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#1 PunisherMark

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:01 PM

When are we getting Inner Sphere Omni's? We are in the right "time period".

Or can the engine/game not do Omni's for Inner Sphere?

#2 FupDup

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:06 PM

The game and engine can 100% handle IS Omnis the same way it handles Clan Omnis (just with IS tech swapped in).

One of the big issues is that many IS Omnis are very, very bad because of the restricted customization rules and they can't use superior tech as a crutch to prop themselves up like mediocre Clan Omnis can.

However, I don't think meta weakness is the reason for PGI's deliberate avoidance of IS Omnis for so long (because that has never stopped them before). I feel like some other factor is at play here, maybe just PGI's hesitation to do anything that they might consider to be "too drastic of a paradigm shift" or something. I dunno.

Edited by FupDup, 12 January 2018 - 02:08 PM.


#3 Promessa

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:12 PM

I'd like to see some Omnis even if they're bad. Clan omnis tend to get quirks much more than battlemechs, an Is omni with, say, locked single heatsinks, and locked undersized xl. I wonder what kind of quirks that would need lol. I'd be kind of interested to see how they work some of the bad ones into that game. There are a few easy ones they could drop straight in though without too much concern for balance, like the Raptor which isn't too under engined and has dhs/endo. I don't think it has ferro but that wouldn't be a dealbreaker on a 25 tonner. That's like .4 tons.

Edited by Promessa, 12 January 2018 - 02:13 PM.


#4 Internal Obedience XIII-omega

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:19 PM

I know a Blakist who wants IS omnis.

#5 process

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:21 PM

Either PGI will have to do a ton of quirking and bandaging on a per-mech basis, make exceptions for IS omnis systemically, or fundamentally revise the omni restrictions across board to bring all chassis in sync.

Which of these could go least wrong?

#6 PunisherMark

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:29 PM

I don't think the Omni's are bad. The Sunder is very good.

#7 Stinger554

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:31 PM

View Postprocess, on 12 January 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

Either PGI will have to do a ton of quirking and bandaging on a per-mech basis, make exceptions for IS omnis systemically, or fundamentally revise the omni restrictions across board to bring all chassis in sync.

Which of these could go least wrong?

Or they could balance Clan tech versus IS tech. Or and the easiest thing to do IMO is to just let players put Clan tech on IS mechs.

#8 FupDup

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:34 PM

View PostPunisherMark, on 12 January 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

I don't think the Omni's are bad. The Sunder is very good.

The concern is mostly about some like the Owens (dumpster tier), Strider (also dumpster tier), Avatar, and BJ-O. Many others like the Templar aren't outright trash per se but not exactly inspiring of confidence either.

There are certainly a few gems hidden among them though.

#9 process

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:36 PM

View PostStinger554, on 12 January 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

Or they could balance Clan tech versus IS tech. Or and the easiest thing to do IMO is to just let players put Clan tech on IS mechs.


They need to balance tech regardless. Mixtech, I think, is just asking to lose a lot of flavor from the game.

#10 Metus regem

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:37 PM

View PostFupDup, on 12 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

The concern is mostly about some like the Owens (dumpster tier), Strider (also dumpster tier), Avatar, and BJ-O. Many others like the Templar aren't outright trash per se but not exactly inspiring of confidence either.

There are certainly a few gems hidden among them though.



Mostly that happens in gen 2, 2.5 and gen 3 IS omnis... gen 1 is mostly just bad though, with a few decent to ok. Interestingly enough is that the IS mostly abandoned Omni tech....

#11 Stinger554

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:42 PM

View PostPunisherMark, on 12 January 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

I don't think the Omni's are bad. The Sunder is very good.

A good portion of them are decent but the owens is an example of a terrible omnimech. Also have to remember locked IS XLs on most.

#12 SilentScreamer

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:44 PM

View PostStinger554, on 12 January 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

Or they could balance Clan tech versus IS tech. Or and the easiest thing to do IMO is to just let players put Clan tech on IS mechs.


View Postprocess, on 12 January 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:


They need to balance tech regardless. Mixtech, I think, is just asking to lose a lot of flavor from the game.


I would love to see what kind of quirks would have to be offered for players to put an IS XL Engine on a mech if a Clan XL was available instead. Maybe that would make a good poll topic....

As far as the OP, I think the IS omnis may turn up this year, released after MW5, but posibly preorder as soon as spring. There is a reason why candy is next to the checkout at the grocery store.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 12 January 2018 - 03:01 PM.


#13 Stinger554

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:48 PM

View Postprocess, on 12 January 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:


They need to balance tech regardless. Mixtech, I think, is just asking to lose a lot of flavor from the game.

Sure but the point was if tech was balanced then quirks would not be needed as much as they currently are. Mechs with bad geo will still need them, but other than that most should go away.

Well I'd rather lose some flavor than have PGI attempt to balance something that was made to not be balanced in the first place.

View PostSilentScreamer, on 12 January 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

I would love to see what kind of quirks would have to be offered for players to put an IS XL Engine on a mech if a Clan XL was available instead. Maybe that would make a good poll topic....

It'd have to be extreme to trade no death on ST loss for IS XL

#14 Mole

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:51 PM

The reason PGI doesn't want to tackle IS omnis is because of omnimech construction rules making heat sinks and engines unswappable. Many of these IS omnis will come equipped with XL engines and Single Heat Sinks, both things that could break the usefulness of a chassis. This is not an issue for clans because clan XLs can survive a side torso loss and clans don't even use Single Heat Sinks in their omnimechs.

#15 Stridercal

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:58 PM

View PostPunisherMark, on 12 January 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

I don't think the Omni's are bad. The Sunder is very good.


Fixed XL engine what now?

#16 Stinger554

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:03 PM

View PostFupDup, on 12 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

The concern is mostly about some like the Owens (dumpster tier), Strider (also dumpster tier), Avatar, and BJ-O. Many others like the Templar aren't outright trash per se but not exactly inspiring of confidence either.

There are certainly a few gems hidden among them though.

It's worse because for some of the variants to work PGI would need to implement crit splitting there's a Templar with a LBX 20 + XL engine...

#17 Arnold The Governator

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:26 PM

View PostMole, on 12 January 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

The reason PGI doesn't want to tackle IS omnis is because of omnimech construction rules making heat sinks and engines unswappable. Many of these IS omnis will come equipped with XL engines and Single Heat Sinks, both things that could break the usefulness of a chassis. This is not an issue for clans because clan XLs can survive a side torso loss and clans don't even use Single Heat Sinks in their omnimechs.

This. I can't believe some folks wanted to introduce a interchangeable engine/heatsink system because of how MW3 handled IS Omni's. The only rule I would allow for this exception is if they stuck to strict Battletech rules. If anyone who purchased any Omnimech system (where it be Clan or IS) any attempts of modifications to the omnimech's engine/heatsinks would result in a permanent change AFTER the modifications are made. Meaning that omnimech that was customized is now a hard locked battlemech with locked equipment.

I don't think this idea going over too well with the community since most IS Omni's are going to require a ton of quirks to be viable. Since I believe that PGI were trying to eliminate mech quirks with all of the chassis in game, I just don't see IS Omni's flying over too well with them regardless of whatever the outcome is.

#18 Nema Nabojiv

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:40 PM

They absolutely need to relax the rules for omnimechs, and the IS omnis will immediately become viable.

Making omnis less customizable, and in most cases outright worse than regular battlemechs was stupid idea from the very start, and all possible issues with IS omnis are the direct result of bad decisions made back in 2013 or whenever the clans were introduced.

#19 Jay Leon Hart

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:51 PM

IS OmniMechs? Where did I put that list...

Wave 1 "The Good"
Raptor
Men Shen
Black Hawk-KU
Templar
*Pre-Order Bonus* Blackjack-O

Wave 2 "The Ugly"
Arctic Fox
Battle Cobra
Avatar
Sunder
*Pre-Order Bonus* Firestarter-O

Wave 3 "The Bad"
Owens
Strider
Perseus
Hauptmann

PGIPLZ?! Posted Image

#20 The Basilisk

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 03:53 PM

View PostFupDup, on 12 January 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

The game and engine can 100% handle IS Omnis the same way it handles Clan Omnis (just with IS tech swapped in).

One of the big issues is that many IS Omnis are very, very bad because of the restricted customization rules and they can't use superior tech as a crutch to prop themselves up like mediocre Clan Omnis can.

However, I don't think meta weakness is the reason for PGI's deliberate avoidance of IS Omnis for so long (because that has never stopped them before). I feel like some other factor is at play here, maybe just PGI's hesitation to do anything that they might consider to be "too drastic of a paradigm shift" or something. I dunno.


What he says even if you all understate how awfully bad most IS-Omnis of this Time Line realy are.

-- Raptor 25T light with 118kph max...flat out one of the best IS Omnis that where build up to 3067

-- Arctic Fox 30T light with XL at 97kph and endosteel

-- Owens 35T (129kph) Omnimech version of the Jenner with a permanent TAG and C3 slave wich is not in game also most version are geared towards EWF and not as much towards doing dmg

-- Strider 40T 97kph Omni version of the strider with endosteel and standart engine....

-- Firerstarter-O 45T 97kph with XLengine and endo and jumpjets....the low crit count aside it may actually be one of the better Omnis

-- Blackjack-O 50T 64kph XL, jumpjets and endo.... lots of free tonnage but where to put all the weapons....and how to survive the first salvo of clan laser vomit with that armor and speed.

--MenShen 55T 97kph avian medium with XL...may have some potential

-- Blackhawk-KU 60T 86kph XL engine jumpjets....a IS copy of the Nova with 10T more and the XL vulnerability.

-- Avatar 70T copy of the Vulture... 64kph XL....has two CT Medlasers hardmounted

-- Perseus 75T 64kph omni version of the Orion with XL and endo

-- Templar 85T 64kph xl and endo

-- Sunder 90T fusion of Hellbringer and Summoner ... 64kph XL...on a 90T Assault Posted Image

-- Hauptman 95T 54kph standart reactor no FF or Endo only fixed case in right torso hampers a bit


Well you see most of the omnis are either crippling slow or are so vulnerable they are worthless

Edited by The Basilisk, 12 January 2018 - 03:55 PM.






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