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Concentration Of Force And Defeat In Detail


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#1 Tier5ForLife

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 10:33 AM

I'm not a good MWO player. This is the first "shooter and movement" game I've ever played. I'm 57 with poor eyesight. And being color blind really is hard in this game, this is why I always target and I just aim for the middle of the red square. I often cannot tell if I even have a direct line to my target since I cannot see it. I'm just shooting at the red square.

But I do have a fair understanding of basic tactics and strategy. And I've played this game a lot. Here are the games I've played just on this account (LikeUntoGod)

https://i.gyazo.com/...4c2fcbfe991.png

For a lot of players it seems that concentration of forces means "a murder ball". Which is kind of correct. One thing I seem to find almost impossible to explain is how to use a concentration of forces when the enemy is scattered or even is surrounding us.

Instead of everyone turning one way, often players tend to start fighting more personal battles.

Keeping it simple, let's say we are on Polar and their assault lance is to out left and the other 8 are on our right. IMO, what everyone should do is turn right leaving their assaults alone and killing the other 8 first.

MWO is not about one on one battles. It is about creating 2-3 or 4 on one "battles". In many ways it reminds me of chess. The idea is not to simply trade pieces, it is force them to give up piece or position because you were able to bring more force to bear then they could at that one move.

Anyway, thought this was interesting and it gives a basic idea of the idea.




#2 Leone

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

Classically you'll have one long ranged player peel off to poke one side or the other as a delaying tactic. It might behoove the team to take out the four assaults first actually, since being a more lopsided fight it'll finish quicker, giving the other half of the team less of a chance to react.

I've covered some basics here, but you seem to have the gist of it.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 19 January 2018 - 02:42 PM.


#3 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 07:09 PM

To win you need to hit the enemy where they are the weakest with greatest strength. Sun Tzu understood stuff like this 4000+ years ago.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 28 January 2018 - 04:10 AM.


#4 Void Angel

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 08:30 PM

If only Someone had Devoted a Guide to These Kinds of Issues. =D

Seriously, though, an excellent point that bears repeating. I've seen so many teams degenerate into $N1P4R W@RRi0R Online when taking fire from multiple locations - instead of making a breakout at the weakest point of the encirclement.

#5 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:27 AM

View PostVoid Angel, on 27 January 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

If only Someone had Devoted a Guide to These Kinds of Issues. =D

Seriously, though, an excellent point that bears repeating. I've seen so many teams degenerate into $N1P4R W@RRi0R Online when taking fire from multiple locations - instead of making a breakout at the weakest point of the encirclement.


Sometimes it is hard to get the team to listen. Other times I am so busy,just fighting to stay alive myself that it is hard to redirect forces where they are needed. Guess this is why I am a solid tier 5 player.

#6 Tier5ForLife

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 04:35 AM

I find it easier to say "I have this side, all of you push the other". I find it funny/interesting that few players seem to know they have a compass.

Have faith Spare Parts Bin. On my other, first account I lost all of Tier 5 and had to work myself out of Tier 6.

Start with some simple goals like do not be the first to die. Or to last at least 3 minutes. Most of the kills and a lot of the damage is done at the end of games so try to last until the end.

#7 Void Angel

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 01:06 PM

If you're truly a "natural" tier 5 player, it's probably one of three factors: your machine, your technical piloting skills, or some physical problem you have personally that inhibits you.

My good RL friend and I started playing this game together; he quit a while back because he decided he would rather play with his girls than shoot at all of you. Can't really blame him; maybe the game will still be going when his kids are older... but I digress. The reason he comes to mind here is that the fool bought a computer with an integrated graphics card (that shares normal RAM from the motherboard instead of having its own GRAM.) This... does not work with CryEngine. Watching him try to shoot enemies when they were close (and his PC was trying to render more textures) was like watching a drunken rhinoceros try to swat fl

I also know a few people around who play with physical impairment; in fact, one of my old WoW guildies had MS; she'd wipe raids from time to time because the nerve signals to her hand were lost to attenuation. If you've got issues there, well, you've got issues.

However.

You can still work on skills. You can always work on skills. The primary difference between average players and the elite isn't better motor skills, or awesome PC hardware - it's practice. Practice to develop marksmanship, practice to develop piloting skills, practice to build tactical knowledge. A lot of success is just playing the game.

Now at this point I need to mention Elo Hell. It does exist, though the reality isn't quite the popular superstition that low-Elo players can become "trapped" in low-ranked play. What happens in Elo Hell is that all the scrubs who don't play with a mind toward developing their skills, and don't want to work together kind of sink to their level of stupidity - and then you're stuck with them on your team. The other guy has that same problem, too, so the result is that matches generate a feeling of learned helplessnes. Like nothing you do really affects the outcome. This isn't strictly true; statistics will win out if you play consistently and well, but some players let it get to them and start a process called "Elo Skydiving." I... once had to quit LoL for a while after a string of bad games after the ranking system was implemented dropped me into low-ranked play.

In any case the point is that matches at low level only feel randomly determined; you can make a difference. In fact, you do.

What I advise is to imitate Buddha: start with measurable goals and stick with them. I'd extend his advice to piloting skills as well: Your primary skills in MWO are marksmanship, damage spreading, and tactical maneuvering - to be able to deal damage while mitigating incoming fire. Start by forcing yourself to twist and spread damage when you get into a fight, even if it reduces your damage, because that will let you survive long enough to make good use of your next skill: marksmanship. Your second project should be to improve how well you target individual components; blast people in the legs, or shoot at the torso where most of the Clan Vomit Laser Rave is coming from. And once you're better than the average scrub on the other team, it's time to pay more attention to your positioning within a fight.

If you work on these things consistently, you will improve. But one more thing: never submit to the idea that you are a bad player. You may have bad skills, but you are a pilot who is improving. You may need to work on some - or all - aspects of play, but those are tools you use, not who you are as a gamer. Never settle for mediocrity; strive, and your place will never be with those timid souls who know neither victory or defeat.

#8 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 03:33 PM

I do not give up. I lived through one of three games today. Tier 4 beckons like Valhalla!

I am using a variety of favourite Heavies and Assaults including several Hero mechs or Omnimechs. Unfortunately this calls for several Playstyle. Overall I am a medium range to in your face brawler.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 03 February 2018 - 03:36 PM.


#9 Tier5ForLife

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:14 PM

Of his many good points, Void Angel made one that helped me a lot even though I still forget it. And in the beginning of the game, it 5 times as important.

Instead of trying to dish out as much damage as possible, try to take as little as possible. Way too often I try to get one more shot (often, one shot too many) in and really, I should jerk away and live to deal more damage later.

Three more tips, the first from Snuggles Time. Do not wait and see if your shot landed, jerk away fast. That one tip made a lot of difference for me.

The 2nd is from Heavy Cavalry. He is a very good player and drop caller (great in FW) and he is an example of why I wish we had a "friend's chat". In other words, you meet people you like playing with but you are rarely able to group up together.

I wish I could remember his exact words because he said it perfectly. Basically, he told the team to wait and allow everyone (and hopefully the enemy more) to take damage and wear down a little. When you think of it, this is the way battles happen. I've read about historic battles that lasted for many hours, even 3-4 days in the Medieval or so period. A lot of these were in the middle east where the two sides would maneuver for days to try and get the smallest advantage.

You do not want to rush in while everyone is 95%, you want to wait until there are Mechs with 60-70% health left. A lot of kills are one shot, one alpha kills. But that mech was at 54% health.

The last point is from me and this has helped me a lot. As I semi-joke, never played depressed. I often wonder at the guys that commit suicide and I know I've done it myself. And I had a bad habit of at some point, considering myself dead and just quitting and moving on to the next match. That is a huge mistake, play with rage or whatever but do not quit on yourself.

Learn to survive that onslaught and finish the game. One reason is NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER but the other being at the end of a game, all the mechs are damaged. And some are out of ammo. I've limped one legged with a small laser and gotten kills. Plus, it really helps your K/D ratio.

I'd say you like assaults lol.

Posted Image

#10 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:18 PM

Thank you Void Angel & Like Unto Buddha. There is alot to glean here. I will reread this before my next match.

#11 Water Bear

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:13 PM

It's a nice video. I like how it summarizes the facts with clear graphics and without fanfare.

#12 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 08:02 AM

Here is a real game version of this: At about 5 minutes into the game, I notice a teammate being hit by rounds from the side where no enemy should be and I turn and notice one mech. Using comms I alert him then I REPORT seeing 3 mechs trying to get behind us. (good comms use here by everyone)

I tell the team, I'm going to hold them 3 off while you attack their team. Those 3 mechs were fresh and must have gone the long way around. So the other 9 of them were maybe damaged more than normal.

I would have liked to see it but my team turned on them and the 3 enemy mechs concentrated on me which did not help their teammates.


Edited by LikeUntoGod, 05 April 2018 - 03:58 PM.


#13 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:46 PM

View PostLikeUntoGod, on 05 April 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

Here is a real game version of this: At about 5 minutes into the game, I notice a teammate being hit by rounds from the side where no enemy should be and I turn and notice one mech. Using comms I alert him then I REPORT seeing 3 mechs trying to get behind us. (good comms use here by everyone)

I tell the team, I'm going to hold them 3 off while you attack their team. Those 3 mechs were fresh and must have gone the long way around. So the other 9 of them were maybe damaged more than normal.

I would have liked to see it but my team turned on them and the 3 enemy mechs concentrated on me which did not help their teammates.



Sometimes your death aids your team. If you can tie up 2-6 enemies your team may wipe the floor with the rest of the enemies. If you can do significant damage to 1-3 or take some of them out as well then you have done a yeoman's job.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 05 April 2018 - 05:52 PM.


#14 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 06:32 AM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 05 April 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

Sometimes your death aids your team. If you can tie up 2-6 enemies your team may wipe the floor with the rest of the enemies. If you can do significant damage to 1-3 or take some of them out as well then you have done a yeoman's job.



100% Unsung Heros.

Recently playing an assault in Quick Play, I did two "breakthroughs" dying on the way. Each time we were in a stalemate and we talked about it and I had guys ready to follow me to kill the guys that killed me. In fact, once I did not die.


OldBob 10025 has a collection he does from time to time where he shows players that take one for the team.



#15 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:51 AM

Hmmm, where did put this.... I thought I posted it...

Here is an excellent real-world example.


Edited by LikeUntoGod, 19 April 2018 - 07:52 AM.


#16 Tier5ForLife

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 11:01 AM

How do you defeat a force bigger than yours?







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