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Did New Tech Revive The Highlander Is Mechs?


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#1 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 07:56 AM

Hello folks. I was wondering if "New Tech" has made the Highlander chassis more viable? About two years ago I loved the Highlander but sold them to finance Direwolves. Please let me know your builds and ideas.

#2 Audacious Aubergine

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 03:05 PM

Not sure, actually, but I have been seeing them again occasionally along with the original Orion. Not sure if the new weapons breathed life into the chassis or if the LFE did, or both

#3 Sniper09121986

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 03:26 PM

Have seen (actually heard Posted Image) a Heavy Metal today, which is already more than the last year. And I guess it would be due to LFE since the Highlanders have barn doors of a chest with weapons on both sides. I said it before and repeat that the addition of more and more tech helps the game balance itself out, so if PGI just tossed us straight onto this tech level they (and us) would not be dealing with the whole balance mess right now. LFE and RACs is what made me look into the Rifleman for the first time ever, and it is doing great already. Now to wait for that http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman_IIC

#4 Audacious Aubergine

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 03:44 PM

Oh man fond (and recent because I'd found a dosbox version a couple years back) memories of the Rifleman IIC in Mechwarrior 2. Flying large pulse laser turret

#5 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 27 January 2018 - 05:19 PM

View PostSniper09121986, on 27 January 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

Have seen (actually heard Posted Image) a Heavy Metal today, which is already more than the last year. And I guess it would be due to LFE since the Highlanders have barn doors of a chest with weapons on both sides. I said it before and repeat that the addition of more and more tech helps the game balance itself out, so if PGI just tossed us straight onto this tech level they (and us) would not be dealing with the whole balance mess right now. LFE and RACs is what made me look into the Rifleman for the first time ever, and it is doing great already. Now to wait for that http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman_IIC


Well said,tech will save forgotten mechs and this game we dearly love.

#6 NRP

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:26 PM

I don't think the new tech helps to Highlander much at all. As I recall, the mobility nerfs really killed it and those haven't changed.

Now the LFE has helped the Orion somewhat. Now I can run a gauss + 3 LLs on my Protector with decent speed.

#7 Koniving

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:55 PM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 27 January 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

Hello folks. I was wondering if "New Tech" has made the Highlander chassis more viable? About two years ago I loved the Highlander but sold them to finance Direwolves. Please let me know your builds and ideas.

Not sure, but an old build I ran since 2013 finally got an update where I replaced the AC/2 with an RAC/2, which has made a world of difference by keeping the build cold and tangible for me.

The original build in action, skip to 6:20 or so.


#8 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 01:23 PM

They're pretty decent at the moment, at least one variant, and for brawling. 733C with UAC20 and 2 MRM30s, spews out 100 damage alphas every few seconds at least 2-3 times in a row before overheating while running max LFE engine.

So yeah, new tech brought them back along with the durability quirks that make them comparable to an Atlas in durability while being way more agile.

#9 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 30 January 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

They're pretty decent at the moment, at least one variant, and for brawling. 733C with UAC20 and 2 MRM30s, spews out 100 damage alphas every few seconds at least 2-3 times in a row before overheating while running max LFE engine.

So yeah, new tech brought them back along with the durability quirks that make them comparable to an Atlas in durability while being way more agile.


Highlanders are on my list of IS mechs/Omnimechs/Clan mechs. A short list includes the Highlander Mastery Bundle and the Highlander ll-C Keeper Hero Clan Mech.

Thanks to all of you whom have answered my questions and given me your opinions. In Western culture we do not say thank you enough.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 30 January 2018 - 03:00 PM.


#10 Leone

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 03:17 PM

Well, I've always been a fan of the HGN-733C. Makes for a great Vitric Forge brawler, especially if you've time to get up on the buildings to drop in the middle of the enemy. Brief, but Glorious.

~Leone.

#11 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 04:26 PM

View PostLeone, on 30 January 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

Well, I've always been a fan of the HGN-733C. Makes for a great Vitric Forge brawler, especially if you've time to get up on the buildings to drop in the middle of the enemy. Brief, but Glorious.

~Leone.


I will keep this build in mind once I acquire the HGN-733C.

#12 Hit the Deck

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:00 PM

Some decent builds are:
  • The old 1Gauss+3LPL (3 pts of damage less now) on the 732/732B
  • 1AC/20+2SnubPPC (plus some Rockets) or the old 1AC/20+3ASRM6+2ML on the 733C
They were limited to XL or STD but now you can choose to put LFE to make them move just a tiny bit faster, carry 1 or 2 additional DHS, or survive an ST loss.

#13 Athom83

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:11 AM

It did a bit. Now you can get a max size engine with a good amount of weapons without needing XL engine. Snubs and HPPCs brought life to the energy variant, and the ballistics and missile weapons brought life back to the others.

#14 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:03 PM

View PostAthom83, on 06 February 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

It did a bit. Now you can get a max size engine with a good amount of weapons without needing XL engine. Snubs and HPPCs brought life to the energy variant, and the ballistics and missile weapons brought life back to the others.


I wholeheartedly agree. Rocket Pods and MRMs are a different niche than SRMs and LRMs.

#15 VitriolicViolet

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:37 PM

Ive run Highlanders since they were nerfed for jumping too much and ive always liked them even if they arent the best. the new tech has done great things for most of them though i havent worked out new builds for the Heavy Metal yet. LFE's are really good if you can fit them and MRMs have done a lot too. My favourtites so far have the 733P with 2x HPPC and MRM 30 and the 732B with LFE, MRMs and 2 RACs.

HGN-733P
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a7c50f6fa782380
2x HPPC, 3x MRM10, STD 320, AMS

HGN-732B
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...86e8272f281668a
1x RAC5, 1x RAC2, 3x MPL, 1x MRM10, 1x MRM20, LFE 325

HGN-733C
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a4831fc3c016511
1x AC20, 1x SNPPC, 2x MRM20, STD 300

HGN-732
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...19f8acb9f620156
1x Gauss, 3x ML, 3x SRM6, AMS, 3x JJ, LFE 325

HGN-733
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...83ad88ed2e816c7
1x AC10, 2x LPPC, 4x ASRM6, LFE 325

ive found that with the new tech they do a lot better than before.

Edited by VitriolicViolet, 14 February 2018 - 03:38 PM.


#16 Koniving

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:48 PM

An old anti-meta rig I used to run on the Highlander hero Heavy Metal... which was 2 flamers, a laser, LBX-10, AC/2 and 2 streaks... which soon turned into 3 medium lasers, LBX-10, AC/2, and 2 streaks (both with the 330 engine) had run for almost four years without another change and was still pretty good.

But lately, the AC/2 seemed... underwhelming. Like it was dragging the machine down in the face of all these quirks and the skill trees and extra armor for everyone. The underlying issue was heat.

So I thought of what I could try. Then I stuffed in RAC/2.
...and I think this one's gonna last another 4 years.

#17 justcallme A S H

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:30 PM

AC2 is better tan RAC2 by a mile.

Pinpoint damage vs spread damage.

New Players need to understand this... RAC = not as good as ACs... If you want builds to perform. And never run "bracket" builds - IE, multi ranges with AC2s and Streaks, that stuff will keep you in Tier 5 forever.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 February 2018 - 04:31 PM.


#18 Koniving

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:36 PM

To explain, the streaks provide a bit of support against fast targets as well as help finding weak points in the enemy's armor (places where they skimped on armor, as sometimes mechs skimp out on the legs or rear body parts and very often on the arms). Once those are found I can start hammering in on them aggressively. The LBX does quite a bit of bonus damage to equipment and in turn inflates the damage done to the enemy mech since 15% of all crits goes into bonus damage to their structure.

But despite everything, while many things have been done by the new skill tree, the heat threshold isn't nearly as high so it can't run as long as it used to and the cooling isn't nearly as fast even with the heat reductions since Cool Run and Heat Containment don't go nearly as high... as well as the skill tree not climbing those elements anymore. So the build was running too hot to provide the sustained DPS and thermal endurance the build required to be able to rapidly engage enemies and carry on from slain enemy to slain enemy.

However, by switching to the RAC/2, the overall heat generated for the damage delivered is significantly reduced as it gradually climbs in heat rather than immediately skyrockets. Overall this produces an astromically lower amount of heat and a forced cooling time, something the AC/2 does not provide. When the RAC/2 jams, I'm unable to use it and this in turn, allows the already otherwise cold build to drop 15 to 20% heat while STILL firing all the other weapons before it is ready to fire again, preventing the shutdown issue I kept having that was otherwise killing the build.

Sometimes there are design elements to consider other than what ASH here worships.

As for strict one range meta builds, what happens when the entire fight revolves outside of the player's available range? Said player becomes worthless, a detriment to his team and to himself, but that's okay when said player is in tier 1 he can blame everyone else for his faults.

There's a reason Meta laser vomit is mixing 2 or 3 types of lasers with similar but not identical ranges. One's to get around ghost heat. Two's to have something that works at longer range. Three's to have something practical for close range when hot. Or one could just run one weapon type and range, and enjoy the weaknesses of such.

Edited by Koniving, 14 February 2018 - 04:41 PM.


#19 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:37 PM

View PostKoniving, on 14 February 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

An old anti-meta rig I used to run on the Highlander hero Heavy Metal... which was 2 flamers, a laser, LBX-10, AC/2 and 2 streaks... which soon turned into 3 medium lasers, LBX-10, AC/2, and 2 streaks (both with the 330 engine) had run for almost four years without another change and was still pretty good.

But lately, the AC/2 seemed... underwhelming. Like it was dragging the machine down in the face of all these quirks and the skill trees and extra armor for everyone. The underlying issue was heat.

So I thought of what I could try. Then I stuffed in RAC/2.
...and I think this one's gonna last another 4 years.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 14 February 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

AC2 is better tan RAC2 by a mile.

Pinpoint damage vs spread damage.

New Players need to understand this... RAC = not as good as ACs... If you want builds to perform. And never run "bracket" builds - IE, multi ranges with AC2s and Streaks, that stuff will keep you in Tier 5 forever.


Good stuff here I am planning on reacquiring a Highlander Mastery Bundle asap.Will outfit the Heavy Metal 1st, as I am using Hero Mechs/Omnimechs now to maximize the effect of the Premium Time.

#20 Koniving

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:59 PM

Am just saying this to make the reasoning for it clear in this case (no, the RAC is not the solution for every case).

2 damage per bullet every 0.72 seconds (or slightly better with cooldown mods/quirks) at 2.78 DPS
Or
Lots of bullets at 0.80 per bullet at 7+ bullets per second and a DPS at 5.82.
Between the reduced heat over time, forced cooldown of a jam, and rapid DPS... plus the spread not being an issue with a design that partially relies on damage spread to find the best place to attack each enemy... its easy to see why the RAC/2 won out for me.

Now if you have the ability to carry many guns, would definitely recommend many AC/2s, UAC/2s or LBX/2s over the RAC/2 or a pair of RAC/2s.

But with 1 ballistic hardpoint that I'm willing to spare, very limited space, and a heat issue that the regular AC/2 exacerbated, the RAC/2 won in this specific scenario. The heightened DPS is probably what helped it go above and beyond, making up for the issues of enemies having extra armor compared to when the original design was first made.

Had I the slots, I'd probably be using an LBX2 instead. Given the problems with an AC/2 and heat, however, the UAC/2 would be out of the question.

----

Side note: Just learned that the AC/2 was upped in its crit-chances to match that of LBX weaponry.
This has some interesting implications. Still as long as the LBX-2 is producing double crit damage, as long as you can land both projectiles on the intended body part it'll hurt more than the AC/2, combined with LBX-2 having superior long range (3x base rather than 2x base before hitting 0 damage) makes for some circumstantial comparisons for which might be better.

That's an improvement over when I made the change to a RAC/2... will try going back, but probably will stick with the RAC/2 for the Heavy Metal Highlander even after this.
On a mech with 3 or more ballistics I'd definitely go a different route. But so long as it's a single hardpoint with limited space.. that RAC/2's gonna stay. It supports the LBX very well.





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