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Did New Tech Revive The Highlander Is Mechs?


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#21 Zergling

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:55 PM

Please don't use the RAC2, and definitely don't use a build like what Koniving is suggesting.

As for the Highlander, new tech helped... but they are still quite weak mechs overall. There is really little they can do that other mechs can't do better.

If I were to run my Heavy Metal (that has been collecting dust for years), I'd try something like 1x UAC10 + 3x Large Laser, 1x UAC10 + 2xMRM30 or 2x HPPC + 2xAC5.

Edited by Zergling, 14 February 2018 - 09:56 PM.


#22 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:07 AM

View PostKoniving, on 14 February 2018 - 05:59 PM, said:

Am just saying this to make the reasoning for it clear in this case (no, the RAC is not the solution for every case).

2 damage per bullet every 0.72 seconds (or slightly better with cooldown mods/quirks) at 2.78 DPS
Or
Lots of bullets at 0.80 per bullet at 7+ bullets per second and a DPS at 5.82.
Between the reduced heat over time, forced cooldown of a jam, and rapid DPS... plus the spread not being an issue with a design that partially relies on damage spread to find the best place to attack each enemy... its easy to see why the RAC/2 won out for me.

Now if you have the ability to carry many guns, would definitely recommend many AC/2s, UAC/2s or LBX/2s over the RAC/2 or a pair of RAC/2s.

But with 1 ballistic hardpoint that I'm willing to spare, very limited space, and a heat issue that the regular AC/2 exacerbated, the RAC/2 won in this specific scenario. The heightened DPS is probably what helped it go above and beyond, making up for the issues of enemies having extra armor compared to when the original design was first made.

Had I the slots, I'd probably be using an LBX2 instead. Given the problems with an AC/2 and heat, however, the UAC/2 would be out of the question.

----

Side note: Just learned that the AC/2 was upped in its crit-chances to match that of LBX weaponry.
This has some interesting implications. Still as long as the LBX-2 is producing double crit damage, as long as you can land both projectiles on the intended body part it'll hurt more than the AC/2, combined with LBX-2 having superior long range (3x base rather than 2x base before hitting 0 damage) makes for some circumstantial comparisons for which might be better.

That's an improvement over when I made the change to a RAC/2... will try going back, but probably will stick with the RAC/2 for the Heavy Metal Highlander even after this.
On a mech with 3 or more ballistics I'd definitely go a different route. But so long as it's a single hardpoint with limited space.. that RAC/2's gonna stay. It supports the LBX very well.

View PostZergling, on 14 February 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

Please don't use the RAC2, and definitely don't use a build like what Koniving is suggesting.

As for the Highlander, new tech helped... but they are still quite weak mechs overall. There is really little they can do that other mechs can't do better.

If I were to run my Heavy Metal (that has been collecting dust for years), I'd try something like 1x UAC10 + 3x Large Laser, 1x UAC10 + 2xMRM30 or 2x HPPC + 2xAC5.


I have not tried the RAC-2 or RAC-5. So for me the jury is still out. Overall New Tech seems to have made these venerable designs faster, and more able to carry better weapons. Think Heavy PPC,MRM20,Rocket Pods 10-20(All new tech weapons).For me I see the Highlander as worthy to own and use. Agree with me or disagree with me, free speech makes a forum great.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 15 February 2018 - 04:08 AM.


#23 Zergling

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:18 AM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 15 February 2018 - 04:07 AM, said:

I have not tried the RAC-2 or RAC-5. So for me the jury is still out.


The RACs are basically garbage, largely due to their spread rendering them unable to focus damage from about 300 meters range.
Combined with the other weaknesses of the weapons (spinup time, jams, high heat), they just aren't competitive with other ballistics.

#24 Koniving

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:05 AM

Well, here's the original build.
After the first score screen, jump to 7 minutes in as the first 7 minutes is all about using the battlegrid tutorial (and the fight never actually happens because base capture). After that, I am simultaneously commanding pugs (and a group of 3 players that are not specifically with me) through the Battlegrid and leading the charge head first, and leveling player after player after player after player with no pause in between, culminating in a final showdown against an Atlas in a weakened state where single well placed shot would have finished me, and win the game. The two scores, separated only by a single match in which nothing happened, were: 4 kills, 2 assists, 1,116 damage. 6 kills, 4 assists, 1042 damage. It is worth noting this is before the tier system and around the time of the PSR system, and during a time in which every match had grouped players of 2 groups of 2, a group of 3 + 1 higher PSR player (if the other team had a group of 4), or a group of 4 + 8 solo players. Grouped players were always in alpha lance, if you were in alpha lance and not part of a group, you were the higher PSR player. This means that teams were potentially much more dangerous than they are now under the tier system. As it so happened, though, my group of 4 were all using trial mechs which left me to carry a lot more.

Here it is again, this time in a group of 2 in actual group play (as by 2014 they removed small groups from quick play and so the only way to play together was against organized groups; still the game didn't allow naming of units yet but every player on each side has a group of at least 2 and likely more, meaning each of these groups had communication, friendship, organization, and I still did the best out of everyone in both kills and damage. The meta at the time is ballistic boats like the Cataphract 4x and SRM boats.
Fun conversations, actual action starts at 5 minutes in, action about. "Watch out for the 5 AC/5 jackass." "5 AC/5?!" "Oh, sorry 4 AC/5; there's an AMS in there too. (it looked like a 5th AC/5)" "Gotcha." Just systematically killing player after player after player after player without stopping as I'm going through this super hot map (which at the time was much hotter than the same map is now; it was as hot as Terra Therma, which is now the hottest map in the game).

For competition, the build is slightly modified in this 12 man group, using an AC/10 instead of the LBX at the sacrifice of 1 ton of ammunition and a little more heat. As such it cannot be played aggressively due to the rise in heat over time, but the need is no longer required with an organized group, 3 chat channels, and me being in charge of the assault group (I honestly wish we didn't split to 3 channels as the command structure would have been really, really cool. This was a full 12 man, which could only face other full 12 mans at the time.
Group is organized into Recon Lance (lights), Flanking lance (Mediums) and the Front Line (Assaults). Each lance commander can talk between the 3 channels, but all other lance mates can only talk within their lance. Recon lance is in charge of dealing with squirrels as they appear to try and distract the front line.

And here we are in another group fight, this time with 4 players. Again, the competition version which like meta mechs, will rely more on teammates to protect it when it gets too hot, so again it sports the AC/10. Terrain conditions of Cosmo Canyon are not favorable to this build. It still does the best of both teams though now damage is much better spread across the teams as are kills. I manage 3 kills, 2 assists, 568 damage and am only topped by what as not yet meta but soon to become the new meta, the wubmaster. This is the only video in which I'm killed using this build.

Now that gives you an idea of how it performed back then with the AC/2. It builds up a lot of heat, which matters now because the threshold back then was over 100 heat before shutdown. Now it's less than 80 and so I needed to drop the AC/2. Thus where the RAC/2 came in as a godsend. Either way there's spread from a DPS-based build. This is not a "twist and shoot" build so he mechanics of the RAC/2 doesn't matter at all. In fact, the jams of the RAC/2 actually remind me: "You should twist now and let the mech cool." So if anything it is improving my gameplay.

Will try to have some footage tomorrow.

#25 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:17 PM

LFE325 with 2 UAC5s, HPPC, PPC has been pretty effective.

#26 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:30 PM

Thanks for all the tips and builds.

As always Koniving it will take me awhile to watch all those videos,thanks loads your experiences are a great resource.

I am not a great player but by combining your hard earned experiences/ knowledge with my unique mixed builds will improve my lot.

The BLR-1G and the Heavy Metal are going to be built and utilized first.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 16 February 2018 - 06:41 PM.


#27 DFM

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:22 PM

Wish I would have bought the 732B, but was lured by the PPC quirks of the 733P. Heat just doesn't work with it. Although ERPPC velocity is downright stupid fast. :)

#28 J0anna

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:48 PM

The Heavy Metal used to be my favorite mech (well over 1k drops in it), but it's been rusting in the dustbin since the JJ nerf. It just seems wrong to use a highlander without JJ's. I'll admit though, I have wanted to take it out for a spin and would love a good build for it.

#29 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:51 PM

I am trying to perfect my build on my Heavy Metal.

#30 J0anna

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:08 PM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 23 February 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

I am trying to perfect my build on my Heavy Metal.


Well there's 2 ways to go on it, DPS or alpha. The armor quirks it gets as well as the weapon C/D seems to favor the brawler setups, so you either want a DPS (that's your Ultra/RAC setups (though I'm not a fan of RACs), with missiles and pulse lasers) or your alpha (PPC's and AC's, the shoot and twist setup)ultimately you want to find some other assault or heavy brawler and push with them. I would love to put an AC 20, 2xPPC's and some MRM's on it, but it just doesn't fit....

#31 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:41 PM

View PostJ0anna, on 23 February 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:


Well there's 2 ways to go on it, DPS or alpha. The armor quirks it gets as well as the weapon C/D seems to favor the brawler setups, so you either want a DPS (that's your Ultra/RAC setups (though I'm not a fan of RACs), with missiles and pulse lasers) or your alpha (PPC's and AC's, the shoot and twist setup)ultimately you want to find some other assault or heavy brawler and push with them. I would love to put an AC 20, 2xPPC's and some MRM's on it, but it just doesn't fit....


MRMs or Rocket Pods are nice. I prefer the LBX-10 to the AC-20.





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