347 replies to this topic

[Seranov]

LT. HARDCASE, on 17 February 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

Extremism is bad in either direction, but at least the IS player is coming from the position of actually being saddled with far inferior technology.

Honestly, I feel like most of the folks complaining about how the IS is so much worse than the Clans doesn't really realize the extent of the differences. I honestly don't generally feel any less effective in my IS mechs than in my Clan ones. The numerical differences really don't feel meaningful when I'm in-game: it's only when mechlabbing that stuff seems lopsided one way or the other, at least to me.

There are a handful of high performing Clan mechs, just like there are a handful of high performing IS mechs. The rest of the mechs in the game run the gamut from nearly unplayable to just mediocre, and that's true across faction lines. That said, I don't play FP Invasion because I find it to be patently not fun, so feel free to ignore me.

[TheArisen]

Humble Dexter, on 17 February 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Top lights are IS (I haven't tried the piranha).

Top mediums are IS : You'd have to take a leg off a 4xSRM asn-21 to balance it, and the Bushwacker is a 100kph miniature assault for clan mediums.

Doesn't matter how good Clan assaults are, because with 240T decks you're only bringing 0 or 1 clan assaults, to go fight 2 or 3 IS assaults.

However IS mechs are way cheaper (without the upgrades, that new players will gladly skip), so new and inexperienced IS players will typically pick a cheap un-upgraded IS deck they can afford over an expensive Clan deck they can't afford... and that's why IS units dominate, while random IS teams suck against random Clan teams.

Doesn't help that the skill tree has significantly raised the cost for a new player to build his first deck.

The Wolfhound is on par with Clan lights but it's not the best.

The Bush is good but not Hunchie IIc or Huntsman good. It's more like Stormcrow level.

You skipped heavies which are argueably the best weight and Clans have almost exclusivly good to great mechs. The Summoner is probably the worst they have and it has a couple builds that are quite decent. The Clans have a top level heavy mech for most playstyles.

And of course theres no debating that Clans have the best assaults and not every mode is FP so yeah, IS needs love.

[Revis Volek]

Humble Dexter, on 17 February 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Top lights are IS (I haven't tried the piranha).

Top mediums are IS : You'd have to take a leg off a 4xSRM asn-21 to balance it, and the Bushwacker is a 100kph miniature assault for clan mediums.

Doesn't matter how good Clan assaults are, because with 240T decks you're only bringing 0 or 1 clan assaults, to go fight 2 or 3 IS assaults.

However IS mechs are way cheaper (without the upgrades, that new players will gladly skip), so new and inexperienced IS players will typically pick a cheap un-upgraded IS deck they can afford over an expensive Clan deck they can't afford... and that's why IS units dominate, while random IS teams suck against random Clan teams.

Doesn't help that the skill tree has significantly raised the cost for a new player to build his first deck.

No, Clan has plenty of good lights, ACH, MLX and PIR can all brawl pretty well with the new MG's. IS lights can also brawl, Namely MPL WLF's and Commandos. But the WLF can also Poke with Er Meds so it does have a slight edge there.

Also the way to beat an IS brawl mech is to just use your range as a clanner and kite them.

Edited by Revis Volek, 17 February 2018 - 06:40 PM.

[MischiefSC]

What's embarrassing is that we even still have this discussion.

Embarrassing because out of several years there was only a couple months where Clans were not flat out superior.

Also embarrassing because of how many people still lose when things are slanted in their favor because Clans are better, so they always assume they lose because IS OP.

Just gives me a sad anymore.

[InspectorG]

Clans simply have NO counter to walls of ERPPC Thunderbolts with those quirks.








....oh wait, that was a few years ago. Nevermind.

IS still has the LRM Atlas. Clan cannot compete with LRM Atlas. Pluz buff muh clans.

[Athom83]

Humble Dexter, on 17 February 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Top lights are IS (I haven't tried the piranha).

Nope. All Clan. Cheetah, Piranha, and Lynx currenlty club the IS weightclass over the head.

Humble Dexter, on 17 February 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Top mediums are IS : You'd have to take a leg off a 4xSRM asn-21 to balance it, and the Bushwacker is a 100kph miniature assault for clan mediums.

Not really IS's fault you forgot the Arctic Wolf, Storm Crow, Huntsman, and Nova are a thing.

Humble Dexter, on 17 February 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Doesn't matter how good Clan assaults are, because with 240T decks you're only bringing 0 or 1 clan assaults, to go fight 2 or 3 IS assaults.

Its only a difference of 15 tons, its not that much especially considering Clan can take more per ton than IS.

Humble Dexter, on 17 February 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

However IS mechs are way cheaper (without the upgrades, that new players will gladly skip), so new and inexperienced IS players will typically pick a cheap un-upgraded IS deck they can afford over an expensive Clan deck they can't afford... and that's why IS units dominate, while random IS teams suck against random Clan teams.

But to compete with said clan mech you need to fully upgrade said IS mech which will cost far more than the Clan mech price.

Humble Dexter, on 17 February 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Doesn't help that the skill tree has significantly raised the cost for a new player to build his first deck.

No, it reduced it by a whole lot. This has been covered to death already.

[Lightfoot]

Balance is in a good spot now. I have to work a lot to stay competitive in Mechlab. Finding that cutting edge. Mechlab is where you find new balance.

I played an Inner Sphere FW followed by a Clan FW. All teams were mixed groups, 2 wins, but close battles at first. So seems balanced, but no more nerfs. And I am still not using Clan LRMs, they are just about worthless in the current version.

[Vellron2005]

You can say what you want, but the fact of the matter is that when I play FP as Clan, I get rolled by IS, pug or 12-man, and when I play as IS, I roll the clanners..

It's simply the state of the game right now..

And it looks to me that clans are not ahead of IS in anything but reputation..

[Dogstar]

Vellron2005, on 19 February 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

You can say what you want, but the fact of the matter is that when I play FP as Clan, I get rolled by IS, pug or 12-man, and when I play as IS, I roll the clanners..

Confirmation bias is a *****.

[Gas Guzzler]

Vellron2005, on 19 February 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

You can say what you want, but the fact of the matter is that when I play FP as Clan, I get rolled by IS, pug or 12-man, and when I play as IS, I roll the clanners..

It's simply the state of the game right now..

And it looks to me that clans are not ahead of IS in anything but reputation..

FP is a horrible judge of balance. And doesn't the IS still have a tonnage advantage?

[Kubernetes]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

Top Medium is not the BSW, it's the HBK-IIC.

I disagree with this one. The HBK-IIC only excels in the role of a pocket heavy. In other medium roles (like fighting lights and other mediums), it's very mediocre.

[Deathlike]

Kubernetes, on 19 February 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

I disagree with this one. The HBK-IIC only excels in the role of a pocket heavy. In other medium roles (like fighting lights and other mediums), it's very mediocre.

You are truly underestimating the HBK-IIC (although the most popular variant is the A). High mounts are valued significantly. It tends to carry more than its weight compared to most other mediums within its class.

[Seranov]

The HBK-IIC has mediocre agility, though, so while it's definitely the strongest Clan Medium, it definitely is not hands-down better than its IS equivalents. It also is pretty boxy, with big ol' "shoot me here" shoulder pods, super fat legs, and generally mediocre overall geometry, meaning it's super squishy when compared to the IS' premiere Mediums. It's a good mech, there's no doubt about that, but I would not say it's the end-all-be-all.

[Bud Crue]

Kubernetes, on 19 February 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

I disagree with this one. The HBK-IIC only excels in the role of a pocket heavy. In other medium roles (like fighting lights and other mediums), it's very mediocre.

I don’t know man...those twin lbx20 builds seem to do pretty damn well in the role of squashing lights and other mediums in scouting. I may prefer a Nova (for more accuracy at legging) or even my 8SRM6 Huntsman, but I can’t deny how effective that damn lbx build in the role you mention (I don’t own the A).

Edited by Bud Crue, 19 February 2018 - 08:46 AM.

[Deathlike]

Seranov, on 19 February 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

The HBK-IIC has mediocre agility, though, so while it's definitely the strongest Clan Medium, it definitely is not hands-down better than its IS equivalents. It also is pretty boxy, with big ol' "shoot me here" shoulder pods, super fat legs, and generally mediocre overall geometry, meaning it's super squishy when compared to the IS' premiere Mediums. It's a good mech, there's no doubt about that, but I would not say it's the end-all-be-all.

I've poptarted with its mediocre agility. Poptarting ironically does not require significant amounts of agility in the first place.

It's not meant to stare down its targets - rather it peeks and pokes more effectively than most mechs - at least the mediums anyways.

This is part of "learning your mech" that gets people into trouble.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 February 2018 - 08:45 AM.

[Kubernetes]

I've used the HBK-IIC a ton, with every conceivable loadout, but aside from laser vomit I think the Huntsman does it all better. Even with the bread-and-butter ERPPC build, the only thing the Huntsman gives up is wider mounts.

/dual lbx20--cmon man thats a fun troll build.

[Deathlike]

Kubernetes, on 19 February 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

I've used the HBK-IIC a ton, with every conceivable loadout, but aside from laser vomit I think the Huntsman does it all better. Even with the bread-and-butter ERPPC build, the only thing the Huntsman gives up is wider mounts.

/dual lbx20--cmon man thats a fun troll build.

Huntsman is better than some stuff than the HBK-IIC, primarily in SRM spam. Arguably it's better than the Maddog at the same thing (plus JJ mobility to boot). The Huntsman is a complement to the HBK-IIC for the most part.

[Bud Crue]

Kubernetes, on 19 February 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

/dual lbx20--cmon man thats a fun troll build.

May be a troll build, but its a damn effective one at killing lights is all I am saying.

[Seranov]

That would be fine if you literally only fought while being poptarting, but let's be honest: there will come a time when you and the enemy can both see and shoot each other, and the HBK-IIC is not the best in those situations. In Scouting especially, you will end up in a situation where the enemy can close on you and take advantage of the fact that your Clan tech and hitboxes is not as good for brawling. In QP and FP, the HBK-IIC almost entirely has to rely on hiding behind friendlies, because even though it can carry a ton of firepower for its size, it's still a 50 ton mech with no survivability bonuses.

Again, I think the HBK-IIC is a great mech. I love mine, even though I haven't finished mastering it yet. It definitely is not, however, far and away better than every other Medium mech. There would be nothing but HBKs being played in the Medium bracket if it were. Instead, there's a pretty even mix of HBK-IICs, HMNs and NVAs, with stuff like the Shadowcat, Viper and Ice Ferret showing up every now and then.

[Jman5]

Revis Volek, on 17 February 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

No, Clan has plenty of good lights, ACH, MLX and PIR can all brawl pretty well with the new MG's. IS lights can also brawl, Namely MPL WLF's and Commandos. But the WLF can also Poke with Er Meds so it does have a slight edge there.

Also the way to beat an IS brawl mech is to just use your range as a clanner and kite them.

Also, worth keeping in mind that both the wolf hound and commando do not get jumpjets while the Arctic Cheetah and Myst Linx get both Jump Jets and an ECM omnipod that they can slot into whatever variant they want to play. Wolf hound has 1 ECM varient locked behind a paywall. The Spider 5D is the one IS light with JJ/ECM but it only gets 3 energy hardpoints.

On the flip side, Clan Lights also generally get more hardpoints to work with on top of ECM/JJ combo option on 40% of their lights, which opens up tons of options.

And when it comes to quirks, I think the Jenner IIC is the only clan light without them.

Now, I'm of the opinion that balance is close enough that you can make IS compete, but I think it's silly to act like Clan light pilots aren't sitting on an embarrassment of riches.

Edited by Jman5, 19 February 2018 - 09:13 AM.