30 replies to this topic

[DerHuhnTeufel]

As the title states.

There's too many times where I have people missile locking me from 800+ meters away with no tag, no enemy mech visible nearby, nothing I see disabling my ECM, etc., and yet I have people shooting away at me like Line of Sight, ECM, etc. don't exist.

I know about UAVs, I know about skills that allow greater lock on times after, etc., but none of those explain some of the maintained locks I've had on me.

Edited by DerHuhnTeufel, 13 February 2018 - 05:02 PM.

[nehebkau]

ECM stops enemy mechs from getting the little red dorito over you.

It is disabled if:
you are too close to a mech with BAP -- bap cancels ECM
you are too close to a mech with ECM on counter mode
You are too close to an enemy and don't have much in the skill tree for ECM
You are getting hit by someone using a TAG laser.
You are under a UAV
You were just recently hit with some type of PPC
You are near a radar detection node (escort)
You are near a turret in incursion mode

Remember, once your ECM is broken by someone EVERYONE on the other team then gets to fire at you (shared targeting info).

ECM used to be substantially better in earlier versions of the game, so much so that people started calling it the 'Magic Jesus Box'. As it stands now unless you are willing to invest points in the ECM nodes in the sensor tree ECM doesn't help much at all....unless you put on stealth armor.

Edited by nehebkau, 14 February 2018 - 07:42 AM.

[Tesunie]

nehebkau, on 13 February 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

You are near a radar detection node (incursion)

And Escort on uncaptured sensor node.
NARC will disable ECM on a mech if the mech hit has ECM. Otherwise, ECM cancels NARC if someone who is NARCed moves into ECM range of a friendly (to them).


I will also note, I believe Radar Sweeps cut through ECM (much like a UAV), but does not cut through active Stealth Armor.

Another last note, any Active Probe (Beagle Active Probe, Clan Active Probe or Clan Light Active Probe) will cancel ECM, as mentioned above.

Final note, If you have no skill nodes for ECM unlocked and activated, then mechs can target lock an ECM mech up to and even beyond 600m away. If they have sensor nodes unlocked and active, they can even lock on upwards of 800m away I believe.

Edited by Tesunie, 13 February 2018 - 11:38 PM.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

nehebkau, on 13 February 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

ECM stops enemy mechs from getting the little red dorito over you.

It is disabled if:
you are too close to a mech with BAP -- bap cancels ECM
you are too close to a mech with ECM on counter mode
You are too close to an enemy and don't have much in the skill tree for ECM
You are getting hit by someone using a TAG laser.
You are under a UAV
You were just recently hit with some type of PPC
You are near a radar detection node (escort)
You are near a turret in incursion mode

Remember, once your ECM is broken by someone EVERYONE on the other team then gets to fire at you (shared targeting info).

ECM used to be substantially better in earlier versions of the game, so much so that people started calling it the 'Magic Jesus Box'. As it stands now unless you are willing to invest points in the ECM nodes in the sensor tree ECM doesn't help much at all....unless you put on stealth armor.

Alright, so when I'm on a skirmish map and there's a lone piranha near me (No ECM, BAP highly unlikely given tonnage limits) with no tag, nothing indicating my ECM is disabled, and it's way too early in the map to get a UAV on me, yet I'm still getting target and missile locks from their team 1000 meters away, what's going on then?

The reason I want a dev response is because I know all of those things and I'm still getting people locking me in situations where they shouldn't have a lock.

[Metus regem]

Did you accidentally switch your ECM into counter mode? As once you switch from disrupt to counter, you remove your ECM protection.

[Windscape]

DerHuhnTeufel, on 14 February 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Alright, so when I'm on a skirmish map and there's a lone piranha near me (No ECM, BAP highly unlikely given tonnage limits) with no tag, nothing indicating my ECM is disabled, and it's way too early in the map to get a UAV on me, yet I'm still getting target and missile locks from their team 1000 meters away, what's going on then?

The reason I want a dev response is because I know all of those things and I'm still getting people locking me in situations where they shouldn't have a lock.

ECM is cant really prevent someone from getting a lock on you, it just slows it down.
If that pirhanha has been staring at you for more than 10 seconds, then he probabaly has you targeted. A lrmer can then target you to lrm (however the locking time is increased).

[DerHuhnTeufel]

Windscape, on 14 February 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

ECM is cant really prevent someone from getting a lock on you, it just slows it down.
If that pirhanha has been staring at you for more than 10 seconds, then he probabaly has you targeted. A lrmer can then target you to lrm (however the locking time is increased).

From my understanding, if they are within 90m of my ECM they can't share data with their team.

[DFM]

DerHuhnTeufel, on 14 February 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Alright, so when I'm on a skirmish map and there's a lone piranha near me (No ECM, BAP highly unlikely given tonnage limits) with no tag, nothing indicating my ECM is disabled, and it's way too early in the map to get a UAV on me, yet I'm still getting target and missile locks from their team 1000 meters away, what's going on then?

The reason I want a dev response is because I know all of those things and I'm still getting people locking me in situations where they shouldn't have a lock.

Patch notes from the skill tree change in May, 2017.

Quote

ECM

• Base Range of Detection Scrambling reduced to 30% (from 75%).

[/center]

• The remaining 45% is now unlocked through the Skill Tree (22.5% per Node).

[/center]

ECM Design Notes: In this patch we're attempting to address the low investment/high reward characteristics of ECM equipment in its new context under the Skill Tree. With the above reduction to its base range, utilizing ECM to its full effect will require focused advancement within the Skill Tree.

[/center]

And then https://mwomercs.com...d-how-it-works/

or https://www.reddit.c...bnegd/ecm_nerf/

Basically, Invest in both ECM nodes or live with extremely short ranged ECM.

[Tesunie]

DerHuhnTeufel, on 14 February 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Alright, so when I'm on a skirmish map and there's a lone piranha near me (No ECM, BAP highly unlikely given tonnage limits) with no tag, nothing indicating my ECM is disabled, and it's way too early in the map to get a UAV on me, yet I'm still getting target and missile locks from their team 1000 meters away, what's going on then?

The reason I want a dev response is because I know all of those things and I'm still getting people locking me in situations where they shouldn't have a lock.

He very easily could have popped up a UAV. They can be popped at any time from a mech that has them equipped. It sounds most likely that your opponent saw you, was near you, noticed you had ECM and he couldn't counter, knew or hoped that his team had LRMs or just wanted to let them know where you where, and popped his UAV over your head. That would give no indicator that your ECM has been compromised.

PS: A dev is very unlikely to actually respond to your thread/question. Especially when the player base themselves are giving you the correct information already.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

Tesunie, on 14 February 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

He very easily could have popped up a UAV... PS: A dev is very unlikely to actually respond to your thread/question. Especially when the player base themselves are giving you the correct information already.

I am highly active in hunting for UAVs. The reason I want a dev response is because I've received a huge amount of bad information from players in the past, largely due to mechanics changes over the years.

[Tesunie]

As an additional note, it's highly unlikely that you actually knew where the enemy was in distance from you, especially if they are LRMing you. They could have been 600m away or even closer, and it is easier to see a mech than it is for you to see them. So, if you don't have any skill nodes active for your ECM, and they are close enough (without being too close themselves), they very easily could have locked you and gotten a missile lock while you were distracted with that Piranha.

[DFM]

Tesunie, on 14 February 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

As an additional note, it's highly unlikely that you actually knew where the enemy was in distance from you, especially if they are LRMing you. They could have been 600m away or even closer, and it is easier to see a mech than it is for you to see them. So, if you don't have any skill nodes active for your ECM, and they are close enough (without being too close themselves), they very easily could have locked you and gotten a missile lock while you were distracted with that Piranha.

+1.

That fishgun could have even done it if OP has 0 nodes and was over 200M away, correct?

[Tesunie]

DerHuhnTeufel, on 14 February 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

I am highly active in hunting for UAVs. The reason I want a dev response is because I've received a huge amount of bad information from players in the past, largely due to mechanics changes over the years.

So do I, yet I get UAVs popped up over my head all the time that I don't always immediately notice. Sometimes there might even be an annoying light mech behind me a good distance with a TAG on me and I don't notice. Lots of things can happen and are possible.

As far as I know, I can say that the information presented here is accurate so far, and matches what I've seen in game. Though I can understand that old information sometimes still gets passed around (if not even out right wrong information). It's still highly unlikely you'd ever actually receive a direct dev response here.

[Tesunie]

DFM, on 14 February 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

+1.

That fishgun could have even done it if OP has 0 nodes and was over 200M away, correct?

I believe ECM disrupts an opponent's sensors (they can't get a lock at all) if they are within 180m, but I could be mistaken on the exact distance though.

With ECM, there has always been a "donut" area where opponents can still get and share locks. In the latest version of the game (since skill trees), that donut is just much larger now (especially if you don't have the skills active).

[Leone]

DerHuhnTeufel, on 14 February 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

The reason I want a dev response is because I know all of those things and I'm still getting people locking me in situations where they shouldn't have a lock.

But, since you aren't going to get a dev response on here, we're offering assistance.

Classically, all the light hasta do is be close enough to get lock, and far enough out not to get targeting scrambled. Honestly, ECM, whilst nice, is not something you should rely on. Keep terrain on hand. 1km is alotta flight time.

~Leone

[Koniving]

DerHuhnTeufel, on 14 February 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

largely due to mechanics changes over the years.

This.
Not long ago, I was giving information based on mechanics both open and hidden that had been unchanged for years after having been proven to exist back in 2012, 2013 and 2014.
Then a month ago or so, a few people went on a chain of things to try out these old mechanics and many of these old relics are gone. Some likely as of the new skill tree, some may have been removed long before

But because those old mechanics were removed without mention in patchnotes with no way of knowing exactly when it happened, I seemed to have lost a lot of credibility for not having constantly tested it (some of these hidden mechanics require nearly 20 minutes of constantly firing to demonstrate their existence; testing that one mechanic once per patch for the last year would have had over a month of my life just spent regularly testing to see if that one hidden mechanic was still in the game... It's like I'm sorry but I do have a life, a career, and a family and can't be on top of every little thing.)

Once making a failure like that, it seems there is no forgiveness.

There's a host of complicated things involved with ECM, from soft counters (disables some but not all of ECM) and hard counters (effectively disables ECM completely).
I'm not going to get into it all. And as mentioned, there's a possibility that some mechanics regarding them has changed, and ECM is not something easily tested by one's self.

A quick thing to consider though, is if you're experiencing these targetings/etc. after being shot with ANY PPC weapon.. PPC is becoming more popular as of late and one of the functions PGI gave PPCs since 2012 is: a brief disabling of ECM. (Some PPCs provide soft counters, its been a year since I last checked by ER PPC provides a hard counter [shuts down everything]. A regular PPC had provided a soft counter [disables sensor block, jam, but doesn't remove the -25% lock speed and info gathering delay from targeting them.)

[nehebkau]

DerHuhnTeufel, on 14 February 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Alright, so when I'm on a skirmish map and there's a lone piranha near me (No ECM, BAP highly unlikely given tonnage limits) with no tag, nothing indicating my ECM is disabled, and it's way too early in the map to get a UAV on me, yet I'm still getting target and missile locks from their team 1000 meters away, what's going on then?

The reason I want a dev response is because I know all of those things and I'm still getting people locking me in situations where they shouldn't have a lock.

He got close enough to you to bypass your ECM. ECM only blocks you for a little while as you get close to an enemy it is rendered non-effective. ECM is not stealth as it stands in the game it is designed to let you get closer to an enemy before you are detected, once you get close then you are detected without bap, tag or any of that stuff... that is part of the reason there are ECM nodes, that lower that range. Without them ECM is pretty useless inside of 300m.

So if you get close to a mech then they get to see you and broadcast that to everyone regardless of them having bap or tag and, the less ECM skill nodes you have the further out that is. BAP extends that range signifigantly. Get it?

Edited by nehebkau, 14 February 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[Tesunie]

nehebkau, on 14 February 2018 - 08:30 PM, said:

He got close enough to you to bypass your ECM. ECM only blocks you for a little while as you get close to an enemy it is rendered non-effective.

Unless UAV or it is being disabled, if a mech gets to close to an ECM mech, it disables all target data sharing and missile locking abilities...

[Horseman]

As long as he's not in your jamming range, he will share target locks with his team. If it's a Piranha, then it can have Clan Active Probe (1t) or Light Active Probe (0.5t), not BAP.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

So as far as I can tell, it's any enemy from 90 to 720 yards makes ECM worthless?

And with skills that raises it from 135 to 720 yards?

Seems like a waste of a ton and slots to me, now.

Edited by DerHuhnTeufel, 21 February 2018 - 06:20 PM.