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#1 UnofficialOperator

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 09:44 PM

Weapons or mechs are balanced?

That gameplay automatically improves???

Nothing will change if the fake terribad T1 players are still stuck in T1 who have no basic idea of how to play.

I just saw 1 beat up enemy mech (82 percentile player) take on 3 mechs (34 percentile player with fresh HBR [because LL sniping], 32 percentile player with fresh Jag, 89 percentile player with 1 laser left in Blanner) & fight to a draw in assault because

1. our pair of fake T1s couldn't aim at all except for the beat up 89% player with his 1 laser
2. our pair of 30% players have no concept of torso twisting so they took in focused shots from the enemy mech
3. enemy mech was torso twisting and just trying to survive.

Ends up enemy mech kills fresh HBR first then hunts down the last 2 trying to cap. 1 laser guy dies first face tanking. Jag runs out of weapons. Enemy would have won too if not for timer.

TLDR: GAMEPLAY CAN ONLY IMPROVE ONCE EVERYONE IS IN THEIR RIGHT TIER FIGHTING THEIR CORRECT SKILL LEVEL OPPONENTS. SOMETIMES I WONDER WHETHER ITS A CONSPIRACY NOT TO FIX TIERS AND PSR.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 20 February 2018 - 09:46 PM.


#2 The Amazing Atomic Spaniel

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:01 PM

It all depends on how long you are prepared to wait for a game.

#3 YueFei

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:23 PM

Probably not a big enough population for proper matchmaking.

Could've likely had a larger population if the game was more balanced.

But since the majority of robots/weapons in the game are not good, McMechN00b's random first mech he chooses and the weapons he randomly chooses to equip on it are likely to result in a subpar mech with subpar weapons, on top of a lack of knowledge and experience playing the game. McMechN00b is more likely to get dunked on repeatedly and quit as a result.

I've been playing this game for awhile now, and I'm the type of playing who just picks a style because he likes it and sticks with it no matter what. I accept that this is self-limiting and prevents me from getting the full potential performance, but I'm OK with potato-hood. Anyway, I do well enough in the game to enjoy it, so I just stick with it. But I'm getting by with experience.

But imagine McMechN00b, who picks something because he thinks it's cool. Like an AC20. Only to struggle mightily with it (LOL@Proton's rant about AC20 velocity on stream). After having spent his first spacebucks on a robot and on equipment that he thinks fits his preferred style of play, only to get dunked on repeatedly, what are the chances that he'll grind up moar spacebucks (while getting dunked on) to buy yet another robot and more equipment to try again?

There are various different types of players who prefer one playstyle or another. Making all the playstyles viable expands the variety and depth of the game, keeps it fresh, and retains more types of players.

MWO being unbalanced is contributing to the gradual decline of the playerbase, and turning off new players.

That's a very good reason why balance should be an important goal.

That's a separate thing from matchmaking. Different problems, different solutions. But a larger population to draw from would certainly give the matchmaker more leeway.

Edited by YueFei, 20 February 2018 - 11:24 PM.


#4 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:45 PM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 20 February 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

TLDR: GAMEPLAY CAN ONLY IMPROVE ONCE EVERYONE IS IN THEIR RIGHT TIER FIGHTING THEIR CORRECT SKILL LEVEL OPPONENTS. SOMETIMES I WONDER WHETHER ITS A CONSPIRACY NOT TO FIX TIERS AND PSR.

Or we can take a Darwinist approach and simply remove the match maker and tier system from the game. The bads will get rekt and will have to get good or rage quit the game. This approach raises everyone's skill level by force.

#5 Samial

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:46 PM

I agree op i'm stuck slowly progressing to tier 2 when i should be very much in tier 4... Where i want to be..

**** PSR imo..

Edited by Samial, 20 February 2018 - 11:47 PM.


#6 Eindridi

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:50 PM

View PostYueFei, on 20 February 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

But imagine McMechN00b, who picks something because he thinks it's cool. Like an AC20. Only to struggle mightily with it (LOL@Proton's rant about AC20 velocity on stream). After having spent his first spacebucks on a robot and on equipment that he thinks fits his preferred style of play, only to get dunked on repeatedly, what are the chances that he'll grind up moar spacebucks (while getting dunked on) to buy yet another robot and more equipment to try again?


He isn't complaining about people who are 300 games into MWO, the "problem" players in this case are probably 10,000+ games in. They aren't stuck with bad builds, but the laziness of MWO development has fostered a legion of players who are only capable of farming stats by putting a bunch of damage on 1 button and into a chassis that only has to expose 10% to fire. Once the fight gets chaotic, the back line farmers in the Skillbringers and Easy Jags got scared and fell apart.

Personally I do think a 6 month PSR reset would be good for the game. Most vets will start mid way thru t3 during the bonus period, and those that play a ton or get great scores would end up t1 quickly while most settled in somewhere in t2. The other end would probably end up spread across t4 and t3, and who knows, maybe games would be better.

But ultimately, it would probably not change anything, as PGI continues to sell improved performance to the masses without tying it to any kind of mechanical skill or resource management.

#7 Vellron2005

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM

View PostUnofficialOperator, on 20 February 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

Weapons or mechs are balanced?

That gameplay automatically improves???

Nothing will change if the fake terribad T1 players are still stuck in T1 who have no basic idea of how to play.

I just saw 1 beat up enemy mech (82 percentile player) take on 3 mechs (34 percentile player with fresh HBR [because LL sniping], 32 percentile player with fresh Jag, 89 percentile player with 1 laser left in Blanner) & fight to a draw in assault because

1. our pair of fake T1s couldn't aim at all except for the beat up 89% player with his 1 laser
2. our pair of 30% players have no concept of torso twisting so they took in focused shots from the enemy mech
3. enemy mech was torso twisting and just trying to survive.

Ends up enemy mech kills fresh HBR first then hunts down the last 2 trying to cap. 1 laser guy dies first face tanking. Jag runs out of weapons. Enemy would have won too if not for timer.

TLDR: GAMEPLAY CAN ONLY IMPROVE ONCE EVERYONE IS IN THEIR RIGHT TIER FIGHTING THEIR CORRECT SKILL LEVEL OPPONENTS. SOMETIMES I WONDER WHETHER ITS A CONSPIRACY NOT TO FIX TIERS AND PSR.


I just hate how some people in Tier 1 feel like they are "more equal than everyone else".. if someone is T1, you deserve to be there, just as much as the next guy..

Must have done something right, if only getting in with the right crowd that carries you..

Welcome to reality: not all successful people deserve their success, not all unsuccessful people deserve having nothing..

But guess what? The people who are top-quality will always be top quality - even when fighting with just a single small laser.. In the example you stated it was obvious who was better..

What I dislike about it is the amount of toxicity and self-entitlement you express.. those people probably worked really hard to be in T1.. and you dismiss them cose' they don't have brawling skill.. not everyone gets to T1 knowing everything.. getting to T1 is being good - at something.. not being good at everything.

Calling someone "fake T1" is just unnecessarily toxic..

#8 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:03 AM

Whats wrong with just removing the skill barrier fail and creating a shark tank? I see it as a win for all.

1st bads will have to get good, Otherwise their gameplay experience will suck. So naturally being human, They will up their game because thats what humans do. That or leave. Either way its a win.

2nd It will expose fake goods in the community. Good players who say they are good but cant stand to carry bads arent good.

I believe in survival of the fittest. And thats what we have in FP. Good units survive and thrive. Bad units QQ and ***** about hacks and go to group queue.....Where they do just as bad.....With less assaults and extra tonnage....

#9 Khobai

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:10 AM

Quote

Weapons or mechs are balanced?


I dont even expect us to get to that point

#10 Ted Maul

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:11 AM

View PostVellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:


I just hate how some people in Tier 1 feel like they are "more equal than everyone else".. if someone is T1, you deserve to be there, just as much as the next guy..

Must have done something right, if only getting in with the right crowd that carries you..

Welcome to reality: not all successful people deserve their success, not all unsuccessful people deserve having nothing..

But guess what? The people who are top-quality will always be top quality - even when fighting with just a single small laser.. In the example you stated it was obvious who was better..

What I dislike about it is the amount of toxicity and self-entitlement you express.. those people probably worked really hard to be in T1.. and you dismiss them cose' they don't have brawling skill.. not everyone gets to T1 knowing everything.. getting to T1 is being good - at something.. not being good at everything.

Calling someone "fake T1" is just unnecessarily toxic..


Couldn't agree more. Love how 50 percent of new topics on the forum are basically just platforms for players to publicly state how great they are and how ****** everyone else is. It's pretty depressing and amusing in equal measures.

Entitled? Yep. Narcissistic? Check. Use of awful buzzwords like "terribad"? Oh you bet.

If you can't say anything in a constructive/ helpful manner to try and encourage said "terribad" players to be less "potato" and "get gud" then probably keep your toxic "salty" opinions to yourself.

Balance isn't the only reason why new players aren't sticking with the game. People like OP are. Grow up.

#11 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:13 AM

SHARK TANK! BEST TANK!

#12 w4ldO

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:19 AM

View PostVellron2005, on 20 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

I just hate how some people in Tier 1 feel like they are "more equal than everyone else".. if someone is T1, you deserve to be there, just as much as the next guy..

Must have done something right, if only getting in with the right crowd that carries you..


uhhhm u wot?

#13 YueFei

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:21 AM

View PostEindridi, on 20 February 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:


He isn't complaining about people who are 300 games into MWO, the "problem" players in this case are probably 10,000+ games in. They aren't stuck with bad builds, but the laziness of MWO development has fostered a legion of players who are only capable of farming stats by putting a bunch of damage on 1 button and into a chassis that only has to expose 10% to fire. Once the fight gets chaotic, the back line farmers in the Skillbringers and Easy Jags got scared and fell apart.

Personally I do think a 6 month PSR reset would be good for the game. Most vets will start mid way thru t3 during the bonus period, and those that play a ton or get great scores would end up t1 quickly while most settled in somewhere in t2. The other end would probably end up spread across t4 and t3, and who knows, maybe games would be better.

But ultimately, it would probably not change anything, as PGI continues to sell improved performance to the masses without tying it to any kind of mechanical skill or resource management.


But with the player population as small as it is, even if those players weren't technically in Tier1 (let's say it became some kind of zero-sum thing and they get put in Tier3), the matchmaker would still have to open the valves and put those same people in the same games anyway.

Ultimately the root of the problem is the low player population.

I've stated what I believe are major factors which contribute to the low player population, and why I believe that balancing the game is important to solve that.

Even aside from McMechN00bs, if we're talking long-time players who prefer a particular playstyle that happens to be gimped, you're likely to see those guys eventually get sick of getting dunked on and quitting also.

The very best players purely invested in raw performance will adapt to any particular style as required in order to win. That's more of a Miyamoto Musashi kind of philosophy (master all weapons, don't fall in love with a particular style, use what is effective in a given circumstance to win... which sometimes meant using a gun! That's right, one of the most famous swordsmen of all time advocated using a gun if the situation called for it.).

But a lot of players are more casual and tend to stick to a particular style they prefer, whether that be brawling, sniping, dakka, etc. Then, as the nerf bats swings round and round, pasting each style in turn, you end up pissing off basically every "demographic" of player, one demographic after another, and there are people who quit the game and never really came back as a result.

Remember the 1.5 damage SRMs? I do. I have a friend who played Counterstrike competitively (so, not a potato), whose preferred style of fighting was close-range (he always played melee classes in MMOs). He frakkin quit MWO when SRMs got nerfed to 1.5 damage and never looked back since.

Edited by YueFei, 21 February 2018 - 12:24 AM.


#14 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:22 AM

View Postw4ldO, on 21 February 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:


uhhhm u wot?

We all go to tier 1 eventually. I say burn the tier system! Burn the MM! Let the house of potato fall!

#15 El Bandito

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:23 AM

View PostJohnathan Tanner, on 20 February 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

Or we can take a Darwinist approach and simply remove the match maker and tier system from the game. The bads will get rekt and will have to get good or rage quit the game. This approach raises everyone's skill level by force.



Yeah, no. We don't need to scare away casuals more. MWO is more complicated than the average shooters, and the tutorials suck, as is. FP doesn't have MM and it is struggling for its existence. Only dedicated units are dropping and their numbers are low.

PGI is certainly not gonna profit from further drop in population. There is no way they would get rid of MM.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 February 2018 - 12:26 AM.


#16 DFM

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:24 AM

View PostJohnathan Tanner, on 21 February 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

Whats wrong with just removing the skill barrier fail and creating a shark tank? I see it as a win for all.

1st bads will have to get good, Otherwise their gameplay experience will suck. So naturally being human, They will up their game because thats what humans do. That or leave. Either way its a win.

2nd It will expose fake goods in the community. Good players who say they are good but cant stand to carry bads arent good.

I believe in survival of the fittest. And thats what we have in FP. Good units survive and thrive. Bad units QQ and ***** about hacks and go to group queue.....Where they do just as bad.....With less assaults and extra tonnage....


I would agree with you except for one glaring point.

I'd like the game to continue. The "Bye, Felicia. Git Gud or go home" in a non Gigantic top tier game is basically a death knell.

Your going to drive away the for lack of better word "casual" player who's not going to put in the work to learn a game while getting stomped by those who are already established in it.
Which is going to cut into the playerbase, causing increased match wait time.

Increasing time to match? Thats gonna lose you even more players.

Then your gonna be left with a bunch of hardcore players with all the time in the world on their hands, bitching about the developers killing the game, until the developer rolls up the carpet and shuts the doors.

Not just talking about this game either.

Unless everyone is buying their $60 game, and/or paying a sub monthly, you need all the types of players. Yeah, bottom feeders might not rate your attention, until they are gone and you can't get a game.

#17 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:28 AM

View PostDFM, on 21 February 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:


I would agree with you except for one glaring point.

I'd like the game to continue. The "Bye, Felicia. Git Gud or go home" in a non Gigantic top tier game is basically a death knell.

Your going to drive away the for lack of better word "casual" player who's not going to put in the work to learn a game while getting stomped by those who are already established in it.
Which is going to cut into the playerbase, causing increased match wait time.

Increasing time to match? Thats gonna lose you even more players.

Then your gonna be left with a bunch of hardcore players with all the time in the world on their hands, bitching about the developers killing the game, until the developer rolls up the carpet and shuts the doors.

Not just talking about this game either.

Unless everyone is buying their $60 game, and/or paying a sub monthly, you need all the types of players. Yeah, bottom feeders might not rate your attention, until they are gone and you can't get a game.

Lol you say these things like they are bad things!

#18 November11th

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:31 AM

Quickest way to solve this problem? Or get PGI's attnz? Just quit the game for a few months.

Infact. I vote we all refrain from playing the game in a sort of walkout fashion.

Either PGI will listen or the game dies.

Boom.
Fixes happen.
Everyone wins.

#19 Johnathan Tanner

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:32 AM

View PostNovember11th, on 21 February 2018 - 12:31 AM, said:

Quickest way to solve this problem? Or get PGI's attnz? Just quit the game for a few months.

Infact. I vote we all refrain from playing the game in a sort of walkout fashion.

Either PGI will listen or the game dies.

Boom.
Fixes happen.
Everyone wins.

Lol Some mechs just want to watch the game burn.

#20 November11th

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:34 AM

View PostJohnathan Tanner, on 21 February 2018 - 12:32 AM, said:

Lol Some mechs just want to watch the game burn.
you cant spell slaughter without laughter. :D





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