28 replies to this topic

[r4zen]

Is it just me, or do Clan dropdecks (Long range, mid-range trade, brawl, low-heat) feel static and ...um. Less choices? Than a similarly themed IS dropdeck...?

I'm trying to say that I feel like I have way more options on IS than I do on Clan, when it comes to what chassis or weapons/builds I can bring when I'm IS, if I'm being 'meta' or 'almost meta but not quite and still effective'.

Example:

In my 'Laservomit' deck (mid-range trade), for Clan it's almost exclusively HBRs/EBJs, and either a MAD IIC or Mad Cat II + MLX/PIR. That deck will never stray very far from those chassis.

For IS, I can do Grasshoppers, Warhammers, Riflemen (I know, I know), Thunderbolts, Catapults, Battlemasters, Black Knight, and round it out with a plethora of mediums - Pheonix Hawk, Cicada, Assassin, hell, even a Griffin or Bushwacker.

Just looking at Assaults, there are so many IS assaults I can do different things with, whereas on Clan I feel like if I'm not using a Marauder IIC or Mad Cat II, then I'm shooting myself in the foot in terms of contributing (excepting specialized builds like UV, SNV-A, SNV-C etc).

Maybe BCMC just spent too long on Clan, but holy cow after one day back IS the game is so much more fun now. At least in the mechlab/drop deck screen.

[K O Z A K]

its not just you, I have more than twice as many clan mechs as IS mechs and when I go IS the list of mechs "good enough to FP" is more varied, there's also more play styles available

[Eisenhorne]

Well, IS just has more mechs in general as well. I'm sure the lower weight limit of clan decks has something to do with it. A balanced clan deck needs to stick with a lot of 60-70 tonners, and you don't have THAT much variety in there. A balanced IS deck can do an assault, a couple heavies, and a medium pretty easily. Good luck fitting all that into a clan deck.

[r4zen]

Eisenhorne, on 22 February 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

Well, IS just has more mechs in general as well. I'm sure the lower weight limit of clan decks has something to do with it.

Good points - Clan 60 ton and 70 ton weight brackets are pretty specialized when it comes to meta builds. Missiles (maybe ballistics) on the MDD and poptart PPC for the SMN...

[C H E E K I E Z]

r4zen, on 22 February 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

Good points - Clan 60 ton and 70 ton weight brackets are pretty specialized when it comes to meta builds. Missiles (maybe ballistics) on the MDD and poptart PPC for the SMN...

If you haven't tried the 2 summoner 2 hunchie dropdeck your missing out on the most customizable dropdeck clan has.

[Verilligo]

C H E E K I E Z, on 22 February 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

If you haven't tried the 2 summoner 2 hunchie dropdeck your missing out on the most customizable dropdeck clan has.

Out of curiosity, what do you do with Summies that makes them so valuable? I know the 2 ERPPC design, but outside of that I can't say I really know of any significant builds.

[C H E E K I E Z]

Verilligo, on 22 February 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

Out of curiosity, what do you do with Summies that makes them so valuable? I know the 2 ERPPC design, but outside of that I can't say I really know of any significant builds.

Lbx20 4 mpl, 5srm6 with artim, 2 uac10 4mpl. 4lrm10 works wonders as well, high mounted pods with huge jjs.

Edited by C H E E K I E Z, 22 February 2018 - 11:37 AM.

[r4zen]

C H E E K I E Z, on 22 February 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

If you haven't tried the 2 summoner 2 hunchie dropdeck your missing out on the most customizable dropdeck clan has.

C
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[K O Z A K]

2 summoner, 2 huntsman ATM deck, be the a...hole that sits behind your team on alpine whole drop and gets 4-5k without aiming, true meta

[UnKnownPlayer]

I know i keep banging on about non-meta on the forums but i'm not going to stop

The clan drop decks ARE really limited if you build towards meta, it's laser vomit HBR, MRD, MAD, ACH, MLX, PRH etc.

You can always do something more fun, I saw a dual gaus HBK yesterday, that looked fun, SRM KFX, 2 LBX20 HBK, heavy small stormcrows etc.

I suppose it's just harder to do alternative builds clan side because everyone else will be going range so unless you get in to a group who all want to do something different you will be the person closest to the enemy and being focused down.

[naterist]

thats cause theres a clearly discovered meta for clans. no one bothers making a meta for IS because itll normally be outperformed by a clan mech that does it better, meaning you gotta find it for yourself, and its that process of finding a personal IS meta that makes it seem like theres more options, even though clans have tons of acceptable options as well.

[Stealthrider]

I think part of the problem is that the better Clan mechs are Omnimechs, which means they're all going at fixed speeds. One of the big things I've learned from dropping with units is that for a wave to be truly effective every mech needs to be going at roughly the same pace, particularly for pushes. With IS mechs there are considerably more options for customizing setups to match the speeds of the strongest mechs in some of the less-strong chassis. For example, my Zeus is setup to go around 73kph which makes it fit well with the brawlier drops I've been a part of. Conversely, the only thing that can really keep up with a Linebacker push (without being 30+tons underweight) is a Linebacker. You can't, for example, bump the engine up on a Mad Dog that'd bring a similar loadout; you're stuck going 81-84kph.

Additionally and for the same reason, build variety in Clan mechs of the same chassis is minimal at best, because regardless of what Omnipods you're using you've got the same tonnage and the same slots to work with. Sure, you can drop lasers/add heatsinks and drop/add ammo to taste, but you're still using the same builds at the end of the day. You're not putting PPCs on Hellbringers and you're not putting ERLLs on Summoners, you're not putting missiles on EBJs and you're not putting MPLs on a Mist Lynx.

Finally, still for largely the same reason as well as the limited tonnage, the vast majority of Clan assaults are just never going to be used. There's no reason to take an Executioner when you can run the same loadout on something twenty tons lighter. Even the KDK-3 is done better by the MCII-B. The few that can run loadouts other mechs can't are simply too slow, particularly when compared to the 81kph+ of the heavies. The HGN-IIC-C, for example, can pack a pretty good punch and take a beating but at 58kph it's not keeping up with a Hellbringer deck. For someone like me with limited options, this means almost half of my Clan mechs are simply never used unless I'm pugging or in very niche scenarios where I simply can't field anything better. Even then, the two mechs that are in literally every one of my Clan dropdecks are my HLL/ERML HBR and MPL EBJ. Contrast that to my IS decks which see all but a few of my mechs being used in at least some circumstances.

So that's really the center of the problem: Clan Omni Heavies are just too good at pretty much everything a mech needs to do. They move quickly, carry assault-calibre loadouts and are versatile enough to work on every map. Whereas the IS has mechs that are "good enough" in general or even "as good" as the top performers on certain maps/modes, or even better if you're good enough with the mech, Clan has nothing that can really compete with the jacks of all trades, master of all Omni Heavies.

It's probably never going to change without massive nerfs to the HBRs, EBJs and LBKs, as a tonnage increase would likely just result in decks just being 65/65/65/65 or thereabouts. If those mechs weren't the end-all be-all there would likely be more variety in Clan dropdecks, though. Maybe not as much as IS, but more than currently exists.

Edited by Stealthrider, 23 February 2018 - 02:13 AM.

[Holy Jackson]

I think with omnipods and less quirks overall, there's less reason to really shop around for different chassis on the clan side. back in the day, my first clan mechs were the 3 EBJs I got to master the chassis, and that became my first clan drop deck with a token trial shadowcat tossed in.

Why get a bunch of different chassis when you can put the exact same build on 3 different variants, or 3 different builds on the exact same variant? Also, if the weapons get nerfed, you can just change the build (small pulse lbk becomes srm6 lbk), you don't need to junk the whole chassis and get a different mech. (rip black knight, hello battle master)

[Palfatreos]

r4zen, on 22 February 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Example:

In my 'Laservomit' deck (mid-range trade), for Clan it's almost exclusively HBRs/EBJs, and either a MAD IIC or Mad Cat II + MLX/PIR. That deck will never stray very far from those chassis.

For IS, I can do Grasshoppers, Warhammers, Riflemen (I know, I know), Thunderbolts, Catapults, Battlemasters, Black Knight, and round it out with a plethora of mediums - Pheonix Hawk, Cicada, Assassin, hell, even a Griffin or Bushwacker.

Just looking at Assaults, there are so many IS assaults I can do different things with, whereas on Clan I feel like if I'm not using a Marauder IIC or Mad Cat II, then I'm shooting myself in the foot in terms of contributing (excepting specialized builds like UV, SNV-A, SNV-C etc).

1) there simply more is mech then clans. best clan mech: light-piranha,medium-hunchback,heavy-ebj/hell,assualt-madcat.
There little room to do it better since those mech hardpoints are the best.

2) IS has quircks + battlemech making them one trick ponys. IV four great mrm but that it. gras/war family got alot loadouts cover but they chassis bounded + there alot 70 ton alternatives. ebj can do alot loadouts great/decent with exception of missils/poptarting.

3)FW core weight clas around heavies. Most times you will be running atleast 2-3 heavies both sides. and as you stated yourself there simply twice more options to run mech that are decent to even great. It is hard to make a better mech then ebj/hell for the tonnage they cost. (if ebj and hell had a child and had both pro gense and dropped there cons gense + 1 JJ + armor quircks = the new clan opness )

Edited by Palfatreos, 23 February 2018 - 10:37 AM.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

If only the Sun Spider had been the progeny of a Ebon Bringer mechmance.... does fantasizing about this qualify it as mech pron?

[Grus]

r4zen, on 22 February 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Is it just me, or do Clan dropdecks (Long range, mid-range trade, brawl, low-heat) feel static and ...um. Less choices? Than a similarly themed IS dropdeck...?

I'm trying to say that I feel like I have way more options on IS than I do on Clan, when it comes to what chassis or weapons/builds I can bring when I'm IS, if I'm being 'meta' or 'almost meta but not quite and still effective'.

Example:

In my 'Laservomit' deck (mid-range trade), for Clan it's almost exclusively HBRs/EBJs, and either a MAD IIC or Mad Cat II + MLX/PIR. That deck will never stray very far from those chassis.

For IS, I can do Grasshoppers, Warhammers, Riflemen (I know, I know), Thunderbolts, Catapults, Battlemasters, Black Knight, and round it out with a plethora of mediums - Pheonix Hawk, Cicada, Assassin, hell, even a Griffin or Bushwacker.

Just looking at Assaults, there are so many IS assaults I can do different things with, whereas on Clan I feel like if I'm not using a Marauder IIC or Mad Cat II, then I'm shooting myself in the foot in terms of contributing (excepting specialized builds like UV, SNV-A, SNV-C etc).

Maybe BCMC just spent too long on Clan, but holy cow after one day back IS the game is so much more fun now. At least in the mechlab/drop deck screen.

*cough* thats meta *cough* lol

There are other clan assalts (warhawk,gargol) that do very well in the brawl and the former is decent at range. As for the heavies due to the weight restriction if you want to bring a timber or summoner or orion2c you have to gimp your deck in tonnage else where. Either in your light of or you med. And for clan meds, anything lighter than a nova is meh. And to be frank I've never liked any of the clan light mech's. My death knell has WAY more survivability than any clan light I've been in.

I'm not discounting that people can and do well in clan lights. Just not my cup of tea.

With that said, is does have a lot of mech's that can fill the same role as good as the fellow ton mech. Clan is very specialized.

[LordNothing]

i actually prefer is over clan because is gives you a lot more options. clan mechs are only really good at one thing, and thats stacking beams. also omnimechs arent really that flexible. the advantages of mixing pods is canceled out by the almost total loss of quirks. the only time this is useful is for building laser vomit builds where you dont need quirks because of your absurdly op alpha strikes. of you want to do any other weapon configuration the loss of these quirks will cripple your build. quirks for those weapons shouldn't be set of 8 so those builds can be viable.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 February 2018 - 02:18 PM.

[ccrider]

r4zen, on 22 February 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Is it just me, or do Clan dropdecks (Long range, mid-range trade, brawl, low-heat) feel static and ...um. Less choices? Than a similarly themed IS dropdeck...?

I'm trying to say that I feel like I have way more options on IS than I do on Clan, when it comes to what chassis or weapons/builds I can bring when I'm IS, if I'm being 'meta' or 'almost meta but not quite and still effective'.

Example:

In my 'Laservomit' deck (mid-range trade), for Clan it's almost exclusively HBRs/EBJs, and either a MAD IIC or Mad Cat II + MLX/PIR. That deck will never stray very far from those chassis.

For IS, I can do Grasshoppers, Warhammers, Riflemen (I know, I know), Thunderbolts, Catapults, Battlemasters, Black Knight, and round it out with a plethora of mediums - Pheonix Hawk, Cicada, Assassin, hell, even a Griffin or Bushwacker.

Just looking at Assaults, there are so many IS assaults I can do different things with, whereas on Clan I feel like if I'm not using a Marauder IIC or Mad Cat II, then I'm shooting myself in the foot in terms of contributing (excepting specialized builds like UV, SNV-A, SNV-C etc).

Maybe BCMC just spent too long on Clan, but holy cow after one day back IS the game is so much more fun now. At least in the mechlab/drop deck screen.

what are "clan" mechs? As an IS loyalist I know nothing but lore builds and lurms.Stop spreading rumors, R4zen.

Edited by ccrider, 23 February 2018 - 05:16 PM.

[Xannatharr]

Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain, on 23 February 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

If only the Sun Spider had been the progeny of a Ebon Bringer mechmance.... does fantasizing about this qualify it as mech pron?

Yes and I am fapping to that right now.

[Davegt27]

tough questions

what Mechs are viable for FP or not
we need a list with a check box for viable or not viable

my opinion is 90% of the IS mechs are junk so who cares if you take a BJ or a Vindicator they both suck


85% of the Clan Mechs suck I have seen 12 man Ice Ferret, Gargoyle, Linebacker rushes

so balance is better than ever lol

its just a strange era for MWO