Edited by Scout Derek, 02 March 2018 - 11:17 PM.
12V12 Or 8V8 Quickplay
#1
Posted 02 March 2018 - 07:21 PM
#2
Posted 02 March 2018 - 08:12 PM
Would 8v8 Group Q only be cool with you?
#3
Posted 02 March 2018 - 08:56 PM
Edit: However, I wouldn't be opposed to say, when it's late at night with player counts really low, it switched to an 8v8 mode (Or have an option as a check mark) to get matches faster.
Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 02 March 2018 - 09:02 PM.
#4
Posted 02 March 2018 - 08:58 PM
Edited by Belkor, 02 March 2018 - 09:08 PM.
#5
Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:31 PM
Belkor, on 02 March 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:
That just wouldn't work on lower end machines. Part of the push for 8v8 is to try and get players of similar skill to be grouped together more frequently. 16v16, 20v20, and 24v24 all make the skill disparity in each match worse.
#6
Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:41 PM
Belkor, on 02 March 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:
The fun factor is being drained because of your 12 team members, 5 will regularly fail to deal 200 damage
Which means you now need to carry 5 worthless players
8 VS 8 drops the Potato Potential from 11, down to 7
That alone makes the game more fun, along with the possibility for better matching between fewer players
Potatos benefit from avoiding Tryhards, and the Tryhards avoid getting Spudded.
What's not to like?
Tickboxes are nice
We lost tickboxes, and gained 2 terrible game modes
That's another solid reason as to why I play less. Less choice, less fun, more annoying
8 VS 8 would be a nice choice, along with other tick boxes for game mode. I'd gladly wait longer to avoid Escort, and get into 8 VS 8 on Mining.
Edited by Mcgral18, 02 March 2018 - 10:08 PM.
#7
Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:48 PM
#8
Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:55 PM
One lemon on your team of 12 accounts for 8ish % of the overall teams skill level. While one lemon on a team of 8 accounts for 12% of the teams skill level. Its akin to playing a match with a mech that only brings half its allotted guns. or those joke builds of Direwolves with 12 Tag lasers.
There is not going to be more tactical gameplay by removing 1 of each weight class. you will not see more light vs light matches, and you will not see more Assault vs assault trades. You will not see more flanking maneuvers with fewer mechs. And having one lemon on your team will impact the teams performance so much harder.
Its a terrible idea. to limit quickplay like that. If they want to do it in other play modes or give it as option.. sure why not. But why would i want to deliberately hamstring myself by increasing the total importance of each team members performance, when we all already agree that the current tier system isn't sufficient enough as metric for matchmaking.
Edited by IshanDeston, 02 March 2018 - 09:57 PM.
#9
Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:58 PM
Cato Zilks, on 02 March 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:
Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:
The fun factor is being drained because of your 12 team members, 5 will regularly fail to deal 200 damage
Which means you now need to carry 5 worthless players
8 VS 8 drops the Potato Potential from 11, down to 7
That alone makes the game more fun, along with the possibility for better matching between fewer players
Potatos benefit from avoid Tryhards, and the Tryhards avoid getting Spudded.
What's not to like?
Tickboxes are nice
We lost tickboxes, and gained 2 terrible game modes
That's another solid reason as to why I play less. Less choice, less fun, more annoying
8 VS 8 would be a nice choice, along with other tick boxes for game mode. I'd gladly wait longer to avoid Escort, and get into 8 VS 8 on Mining.
There is a skill disparity myth in your arguments. In 8v8s, sure each player has more impact on the match but this means each potato also has more impact on your match. If your team gets 1 more potato than the enemy team, you lose assuming everyone else is equally skilled. You get the opportunity to carry harder in bigger matches so why not rise up to the challenge? I've successfully carried "5 will regularly fail to deal 200 damage" in the current 12v12 system and would aim to carry even harder in a 24v24 system. The chaotic fun offered in the larger battles should not be understated.
#10
Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:02 PM
IshanDeston, on 02 March 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:
One lemon on your team of 12 accounts for 8ish % of the overall teams skill level. While one lemon on a team of 8 accounts for 12% of the teams skill level. Its akin to playing a match with a mech that only brings half its allotted guns. or those joke builds of Direwolves with 12 Tag lasers.
There is not going to be more tactical gameplay by removing 1 of each weight class. you will not see more light vs light matches, and you will not see more Assault vs assault trades. You will not see more flanking maneuvers with fewer mechs. And having one lemon on your team will impact the teams performance so much harder.
Its a terrible idea. to limit quickplay like that. If they want to do it in other play modes or give it as option.. sure why not. But why would i want to deliberately hamstring myself by increasing the total importance of each team members performance, when we all already agree that the current tier system isn't sufficient enough as metric for matchmaking.
Ishan, very well said - you beat me to the point I was making. This 8v8 skill disparity myth has been pushed around for far too long. There will be as many 8-0 stomps as 12-0 stomps. I'm sure of it and it is not like we haven't already experienced this during the MWO beta where it was exclusively 8v8s. A single bad teammate would have a much greater impact on your 8v8 match than a 12v12 match.
Edited by Belkor, 02 March 2018 - 10:06 PM.
#11
Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:15 PM
Belkor, on 02 March 2018 - 09:58 PM, said:
There is a skill disparity myth in your arguments. In 8v8s, sure each player has more impact on the match but this means each potato also has more impact on your match. If your team gets 1 more potato than the enemy team, you lose assuming everyone else is equally skilled. You get the opportunity to carry harder in bigger matches so why not rise up to the challenge? I've successfully carried "5 will regularly fail to deal 200 damage" in the current 12v12 system and would aim to carry even harder in a 24v24 system. The chaotic fun offered in the larger battles should not be understated.
Oh, I've gotten 10 Kills Most Damage Dealt before, rest assured Carries have been had
But your argument is faulty
Having to chew through less armor means its easier to carry, irrespective of how many Potatos there are (on either side)
More isn't better
It just makes snowballing an even bigger thing.
You think it's somehow easier to beat 10 guys shooting at one target than 4?
It just reduces TTK, and makes carrying nearly impossible.
I'm not saying you can't have your 20 VS 20 (PGI is saying that, mechs are very taxing because of all the components)
I'm saying I'd like the option of 8 VS 8 because it would possibly make me play more (not having to play terrible game modes would certainly make me play more, however)
Fewer choices is always bad, but PGI is continually going that route.
#12
Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:17 PM
#13
Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:56 PM
Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:
Oh, I've gotten 10 Kills Most Damage Dealt before, rest assured Carries have been had
But your argument is faulty
Having to chew through less armor means its easier to carry, irrespective of how many Potatos there are (on either side)
More isn't better
It just makes snowballing an even bigger thing.
You think it's somehow easier to beat 10 guys shooting at one target than 4?
It just reduces TTK, and makes carrying nearly impossible.
I'm not saying you can't have your 20 VS 20 (PGI is saying that, mechs are very taxing because of all the components)
I'm saying I'd like the option of 8 VS 8 because it would possibly make me play more (not having to play terrible game modes would certainly make me play more, however)
Fewer choices is always bad, but PGI is continually going that route.
I like the idea of both 8v8 and 12v12 being a thing.
#14
Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:01 PM
Oh well...
#15
Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:18 PM
#16
Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:32 PM
Scout Derek, on 02 March 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:
You’re nicer than me. I would be like obviously it’s one or the other...
Funny how comp is 8v8 and those are “amazing” matches yet we’re forced to play in 12v12 “mediocre” matches.
#17
Posted 03 March 2018 - 12:07 AM
Imperius, on 02 March 2018 - 11:32 PM, said:
Funny how comp is 8v8 and those are “amazing” matches yet we’re forced to play in 12v12 “mediocre” matches.
(From my one of my previous post) Russ commented on this a while back during a similar podcast. He said tournaments generally go with less players to minimize the cost of logistics among other issues. Example: Organizing 12 players per team for a tournament is too difficult. CSGO's competitive scene runs 5v5 but their game offers 10v10 casuals.
Mcgral18, on 02 March 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:
Oh, I've gotten 10 Kills Most Damage Dealt before, rest assured Carries have been had
But your argument is faulty
Having to chew through less armor means its easier to carry, irrespective of how many Potatos there are (on either side)
More isn't better
It just makes snowballing an even bigger thing.
You think it's somehow easier to beat 10 guys shooting at one target than 4?
It just reduces TTK, and makes carrying nearly impossible.
I'm not saying you can't have your 20 VS 20 (PGI is saying that, mechs are very taxing because of all the components)
I'm saying I'd like the option of 8 VS 8 because it would possibly make me play more (not having to play terrible game modes would certainly make me play more, however)
Fewer choices is always bad, but PGI is continually going that route.
Here is the big difference between the two of us. I absolutely love the opportunity to kill all 12 players and enjoy striving towards maximum impact in a 12v12 match. You prefer some guaranteed kills and wins in a 8v8 match. I don't think our mindsets will ever come to an agreement.
On your TTK comment, I play CSGO so I'm very used to carrying with next to no TTK.
Edited by Belkor, 03 March 2018 - 12:09 AM.
#18
Posted 03 March 2018 - 12:14 AM
Belkor, on 03 March 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:
On your TTK comment, I play CSGO so I'm very used to carrying with next to no TTK.
Seeing as you don't understand my mindset, yep
You keep enjoying those matches with 5+ Terribads
#19
Posted 03 March 2018 - 12:17 AM
Belkor, on 03 March 2018 - 12:07 AM, said:
(From my one of my previous post) Russ commented on this a while back during a similar podcast. He said tournaments generally go with less players to minimize the cost of logistics among other issues. Example: Organizing 12 players per team for a tournament is too difficult. CSGO's competitive scene runs 5v5 but their game offers 10v10 casuals.
MWO will still offer a 12 v 12, we have asked if QP or QP Group be set to 8v8.
Make the game fun again
Have a higher chance of having better players in each game.
Help wait times
#20
Posted 03 March 2018 - 12:22 AM
Mcgral18, on 03 March 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:
Seeing as you don't understand my mindset, yep
You keep enjoying those matches with 5+ Terribads
I don't even think about them unless one of them suicides at the start. Losing 1 terribad is already bad enough in a 12v12, losing 1 terribad in an 8v8 will be obnoxious. Otherwise, I try to focus on my own play and maximize my impact. Go for all 12 kills.
PS: How bad is 1 or 2 dc'd / troll / tking / suiciding player in 12v12? These aids will be magnified in 8v8s.
Edited by Belkor, 03 March 2018 - 01:54 AM.
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