99 replies to this topic

[BreakinStuff]

Yosharian, on 05 March 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

Soo... you're agreeing with me?

Yes.

[BreakinStuff]

Brain Cancer, on 06 March 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

And he's right- I used an Orion IIC for much the same reason (and still do with ATMs)- they're tough for a Clan machine and lob missiles like a boss with plenty of payload.

1700 is a metric ton of firing, though. How many tubes and how much ammo are you tossing with them?

I use the timby for this kinda thing, or the Mad Dog. Both work well enough, and I tend to put heavy lasers to make people panic when they try to rush me. Usually works.

But usually 40 tubes and at least 8 tons of ammo to get similar numbers.

Archers (if they survive long enough) will run out of ammo but are fortunately bricky enough to credibly brawl after the tubes are fully expended. Invariably on the archer, the majority of my kills are medium laser hits.

Edited by BreakinStuff, 06 March 2018 - 03:07 PM.

[Kroete]

Savage Wolf, on 05 March 2018 - 04:39 AM, said:

And then battles will be won with who ever brought enough counters to whatever the enemy has. I'd rather we didn't have these counter systems as long as it's random who we are up against. I want to win on skill, not on being lucky with my loadout.

Lrms are balanced for t5 without ams in the moment ...
but If they would be balanced against 2/8/8 if a team has 12 members ...
... do i realy need to explain what the difference would be?

[Vellron2005]

BreakinStuff, on 05 March 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

If you're a LRM boater the moment you drop out of tier 4 your average LRM boat score outside specific maps (Polar Highlands) drops by 50-75%, and often you are lucky to hit 300 damage.

You and I must not be playing the same game.. for me, Tier had absolutely nothing to do with my damage output. In fact, as I got to the higher tiers, my damage skyrocketed, but that was cose' of LRM powercreep taking me from medium to assault LRM boats..

300 damage is a bad game for me in a LRM boat..

Average is probably somewhere between 500-600, with 800-1000+ games not uncommon, even on HPG..

Also, there's a reason why I have a "Kill secured" logo on many of my mechs.. especially LRM boats.. cose' they pull their weight, and almost always deal at least 1 KMDD or kill..

Only yesterday did I have a funny situation.. I bought a brand new Warhawk LRM boat for the event.. and I was struggling to get KMDDs with it.. but it racked up 2+ kills per game with ease... funny as hell..

[Sjorpha]

Vellron2005, on 07 March 2018 - 03:22 AM, said:

In fact, as I got to the higher tiers, my damage skyrocketed, but that was cose' of LRM powercreep taking me from medium to assault LRM boats..

Not sure when or to which tier you're referring, but your stats don't indicate any "skyrocketing" of damage over the past year.

[Lykaon]

So I made an alt account to Lurm in tier 5 and here is what I found.

Contrary to many opinions AMS is in regular and routine use. In fact I just finished a match where the enemy had 3 LAMs and at least 2 AMS. This being an oddball with most matches where I observed about 3 AMS in use.

Played 12 matches with an LRM Maddog with none of the matches being devoid of AMS in all 12 matches the enemy deployed at least one observable AMS. and as I said 3 being typical.

ECM was also in regular and routine use.

As were very bold and poorly piloted light mechs more than willing to face tank a 60 tonner with a primarily Lurm payload. If I were a fresh tier 5 pilot they would be fairly effective as a counter play ellement.

I will continue to lob lurms in tier 5 to increase my sample base but so far many of the assumptions of low tier LRM counter play are not evident in my matches. AMS is used and to great effect ECM is routinely present and light mech pilots do aggressivley pursue lurmboats.

Thus far LRMs have utterly sucked as a weapon system in tier 5 because of these factors.

Since the PGI plan is to balance for tier 4 and 5 and even there LRMs are god aweful I see little hope for reviving LRMs as a practical weapon system and they shall probably remain in the gimik pile.

[Brain Cancer]

The funny thing is, these days people are regularly running accounts in the lower tiers as well...and the "new account, good player" accounts are becoming common enough to easily contaminate the game experience down there.

Never mind the TKer eternal bottom feeder types.

[Necromonger Commander]

LRMs are a powerful weapon even in Tier 2. They are god mode in Tier 5.

[Diablobo]

So much hate from so many players who never bothered to learn how to properly use them.

They get butthurt after being victimized by both potatoes and actual players that use them effectively, then come here on the forums and whine about them. Paul and Russ nerf them to please the so-called tier one players that don't ever use them, and they get mothballed again until the LRM'ers manage to still wreck face with them.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Edited by Diablobo, 11 March 2018 - 04:20 PM.

[Imperius]

LRM’s don’t reck any good players. Remember LRM damage is spreaded trash.

[Trenchbird]

Imperius, on 12 March 2018 - 03:29 AM, said:

LRM’s don’t reck any good players. Remember LRM damage is spreaded trash.

May be spreadtrash, but the one thing I'll give even LRM assaultatos; If they manage to get a good lock on an undefended target, it's going to seriously put a damper on said target's day when they come across an actual *battle*mech instead of some cowardly legged support vehicle. Doesn't make LRMtatos any less of weak-willed parasites, however.

Edited by Catten Hart, 12 March 2018 - 10:43 AM.

[ThreeStooges]

If lrms were so good why do you see them on assaults more than you do heavies or mediums? Nothing to do with the 40 counters I'm sure. Whenever I see the snv-a1 I know that its probability loaded up with lrm 15s and small lasers. If it wasn't for events you'd hardly see missile boats or catapults. Lrm atlas ddc? oh alrighty then.

If you want to do kills with lrms you need a big salvo and since clans fire in that stream that means you are going to IS mechs for lrm salvos. Ams just chows down on clan lrms. Even a catapult with 15-20s isn't going to do much so you go biger with that 100 ton lrm 80-100 mech and fire the biggest blob of lrms you can to get past all the counters. Any lrm mech can post a screen shot of triple damage numbers but look at the kill count. Two maybe three for all that damage? Use any other weapon and do triple damage numbers and you'll have more than just three kills.

[Brain Cancer]

Catten Hart, on 12 March 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

May be spreadtrash, but the one thing I'll give even LRM assaultatos; If they manage to get a good lock on an undefended target, it's going to seriously put a damper on said target's day when they come across an actual *battle*mech instead of some cowardly legged support vehicle. Doesn't make LRMtatos any less of weak-willed parasites, however.

On the other hand, if that assault had chosen something besides LRMs and gotten the same undefended target, they'd already be dead. The amount of sandblasting it takes to get an LRM-only kill is hideous- I've watched a Kit Fox with triple AMS being bombed by 200 LRMs at a time and it still took five waves of missiles (from a Stalker AND Archer) to do the job. A thousand missiles. To kill one light. Given, it was sitting there without even evading. But if it had, it'd have likely taken as much firepower without AMS as it did sitting there with.

[frumpylumps]

I'm very happy that these EZmode weapons are considered worthless by some people.

Edited by frumpylumps, 12 March 2018 - 01:08 PM.

[Imperius]

frumpylumps, on 12 March 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

I'm very happy that these EZmode weapons are considered worthless by some people.

EZ mode? You mean as in the the LRM mech is basically a free kill right. Because your stats aren’t showing you’re a dealer of death.

[Imperius]

frumpylumps, on 12 March 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

How is it a free kill when you are hiding behind your team the whole game and don't have to expose yourself to do damage?

Stats?


Do you realize how pathetic your arguments are?

Omg I’ve heard it all. LRM pilot just said I hide behind cover and team. Apparently you forgot how the game works. Sorry bro I’m not asking for locks in my dead weight mech.

It’s a free kill because LRM mechs are zero threat.

Edited by Imperius, 12 March 2018 - 02:10 PM.

[frumpylumps]

Imperius, on 12 March 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

Omg I’ve heard it all. LRM pilot just said I hide behind cover and team. Apparently you forgot how the game works. Sorry bro I’m not asking for locks in my dead weight mech.

It’s a free kill because LRM mechs are zero threat.

read my edit


How does the game work? You aren't making any sense. I'm not an LRM pilot.

and stats are only useful with context and you don't have any.

Edited by frumpylumps, 12 March 2018 - 02:31 PM.

[Throe]

Savage Wolf, on 05 March 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

AMS is also a huge problem for the game. If ever LRMs become useful, people will stock up on AMS and then LRMs are useless again, unless AMS was nerfed to uselessness, but then what is the point. Same with ECM.

Just like when laser vomit is overused people use it's counter called... oh right, it has none. Neither has balistics.

Missilies is the only category with counter equipment in the game and that basically means that missiles will always be a circumstantial choice while lasers will always work.

So either all weapon types should have a counter or AMS needs to go.

All weapon types do have counters. And AMS *only* works against missiles, so bringing it in a match is a complete crapshoot, where using hard cover and damage spreading/shielding tactics is effective against *all* enemy weaponry, so most players don't bother with AMS after they learn how to mitigate damage without it.

The state of LRMs is pretty well balanced right now. As has been said, they're powerful enough that they can be useful on certain maps in Faction Play, but not so much that they can be used competitively to great effect.

[Khobai]

LRMs are definitely not well balanced lol

theyre way too good at lower tiers and damn useless at higher tiers

LRMs need their power level increased but they also need their skill floor/skill ceiling increased.

Edited by Khobai, 12 March 2018 - 02:27 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Throe, on 12 March 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

The state of LRMs is pretty well balanced right now. As has been said, they're powerful enough that they can be useful on certain maps in Faction Play, but not so much that they can be used competitively to great effect.

Being "useful" in FP, sometimes and uncompetitive otherwise is about the most damning with faint praise of a weapon I've heard to date in this topic.

Meanwhile, well balanced meta-of-the-month is currently lasering it's way though everything and is quite competitive, period. LRMs aren't even remotely close to that, being a Paul-says-it-should-be-a-T5-noob-tickler.

Khobai, on 12 March 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

LRMs are definitely not well balanced lol

theyre way too good at lower tiers and damn useless at higher tiers

LRMs need their power level increased but they also need their skill floor/skill ceiling increased.

They're only good at lower tiers because we don't actually strap training wheels (read:AMS, AMS everywhere) on Trials so newbies have a defense someone with zero experience can use. If we did put AMS into the equation, they'd be as useless in low tiers as they are in high.