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Can A "support" Mech Work As A Solo Player?


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#1 DrCyanide

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:23 AM

I've got a strange idea kicking around in my head that I can't quite shake. There are a few "support"-ish tools you can equip a mech with, such as AMS, ECM, Tag, NARC, UAV, and probably something else I'm forgetting (sensors?). These tools help keep the enemy team from hitting your allies while helping your allies hit them. I'm curious if the advantage created by those tools is enough to turn the tide of war in your teams favor, even if (worst case scenario) you don't have any damaging weapons on your mech.

Also, how would such a playstyle effect your c-bills and xp gains? I know you get some of each for spotting and being in formation, but you'd be missing out on a lot of damage/kill credit.

#2 Damnedtroll

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:31 AM

Can be fun but you will not earn a lot... Best one is triple ams light with weapons to defend yourself for the money.

For me, better to stick with the maxed ecm and put a bunch of weapons in. I will help your team more, 90% of the time.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 12 March 2018 - 11:32 AM.


#3 WrathOfDeadguy

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 12:15 PM

If you build your 'Mech so that it is still a functional combatant without the support hardware, then yes. If you load your 'Mech down with every piece of support equipment possible, such that you need to carry significantly less weaponry to do so, then no. Dedicated support 'Mechs are only useful in group drops; in solo queue, where your teammates aren't guaranteed to be able or willing to make optimal use of your hardware, you'll be a burden more often than a boost.

For any use of support equipment in solo queue, think "build with support capability" rather than "support build." You want to be able to carry your own weight even if your teammates totally ignore the assistance you're trying to provide for them- which is, sadly, the most likely scenario.

UAV is always useful on any build. It is as valuable as a defensive tool (revealing pushes, countering ECM, holding locks on circling lights) as it is in an offensive capacity. It costs no tonnage, so as long as your build doesn't require a different consumable in the slot it occupies, go for it.

ECM is always useful for self-defense in addition to its support abilities, so it is also a good pick. It will benefit you even if your teammates don't take advantage of its protection. Plan on sinking skill points into the Sensor tree if you're taking ECM, until you have at least one of the Enhanced ECM nodes. Otherwise you can still be targeted at midrange poking distances, and it won't be doing you or anyone else any good then.

TAG is only useful if you or at least one of your teammates has guided missiles of some type. As such, it should normally be reserved for your own guided missile builds, or for group play when you know your team will be carrying missiles. If you do have guided missiles, you should always have a TAG, because it makes you less reliant on other people getting locks for you. Otherwise, it is all too often going to be a waste of a hardpoint and podspace.

NARC is even more marginal than TAG. It can be useful for a very active drop caller, because it can be used to highlight a specific target for a long time, but its use is riskier and it costs way too much tonnage unless you know you're going to be using it constantly. You don't want to drop into a match with 4-5 tons and 3-4 slots tied up in a piece of hardware that isn't benefiting you or your team. Even if you're carrying guided missiles yourself, it generally isn't worthwhile because it competes with your main armament for hardpoints and podspace. NARC is something you'll generally only want if you are dropping in a group with guided missile 'Mechs who also know you have NARC and are ready to take advantage of it.

BAP/CAP is situational, but can be useful even if your teammates don't get anything out of it. It cancels ECM, which is always nice; it also extends your sensor range, which is nice too. If you're bringing guided missiles, it is a good add (the ECM cancelling aids locks); if you aren't, then you might be better off with a Targeting Computer Mk.I instead.

On that note, Targeting Computers are good. They won't help your team out at all, but TC-I through TC-III have a place on direct-fire builds as long as you have the slots and tonnage to spare for them. They don't provide a tangible benefit with positive feedback like other supports do, but they will improve your weapons and sensors passively with crit, range, and projectile speed bonuses. TCs are a great pick for solo play, since all of their benefits are for you and you alone.

AMS is handy because it protects you and your team. It is a net benefit even if your teammates aren't paying attention to its presence, because its protection has a wide and automatic effect. Weigh the tonnage and slot cost against the requirements of your build- if it is worth more to you than one more double heat sink would be, then add it. Even a half ton of ammo prevents a significant amount of damage, to you or someone else. It's a good addition to most builds, if you have room for it. AMS is probably the best support equipment for solo play, alongside ECM, because it is useful regardless of your team's level of coordination. It is a minimal burden for a large benefit.

LAMS, on the other hand, is usually to be avoided, because its infinite ammo comes at too steep a heat cost- to the point that it will hobble many builds.

Command Console, never. It eats too much tonnage for what it does.


For rewards- AMS will increase your match score for every missile it shoots down, but will not yield any extra cbill or XP gain. UAV, BAP/CAP, TAG, NARC, and ECM (in counter mode) will all yield XP and cbill rewards for canceling enemy ECM. ECM in disrupt mode will yield a small cbill and XP gain for providing cover for teammates in its area of effect. UAV, TAG, and NARC yield additional XP and cbill rewards for damage and kills done to enemies locked by them (on top of the standard bonus for spotting a target). All of these bonuses are fairly minimal compared to dealing direct damage to enemies with offensive weapons; even if your support hardware turns the tide of battle, you won't get much of a payout for your efforts. In order to pull down good match scores and reap high rewards, you need to be doing damage with your own offensive weapons.

Edited by WrathOfDeadguy, 12 March 2018 - 12:21 PM.


#4 Dragonporn

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:34 PM

Most important points have been covered above.

Just wanna share my own experience. I have Raven built mostly for recon and is barely combat capable. I got only 3 med lasers, and the rest are ECM, Stealth Armor and NARCs. Besides obvious combat skill investments, I got handful put into sensors (maxing ECM) and Auxiliary: more consumable slots, maxed Strikes and Coolshots because I can get hot in Stealth at the wrong time. Rest are in mobility.

This mech is a big hit and miss. Since I queue only for QP, there are matches where I'm able to provide pretty big help for the team, to the point of turning tides, but that happens if team is communicating and well coordinated (plus if we have some scary big lurmers). There are other matches where I either killed off early or can't contribute well for the team, everyone busy doing their own thing and not really paying attention, but that doesn't mean we're losing.

In both cases, I get pretty low scores and rewards in general, nothing even close to what I get in my usual combat mechs. So all in all, if you drop in solo queue, where you're playing with randoms, going for very support heavy built might not be a good idea. Being able to deal damage and defend yourself should always be a priority.

#5 Zergling

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 11:07 PM

Short answer: no
Long answer: no

#6 DrCyanide

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 05:25 AM

Thank you both @WrathOfDeadguy and @Dragonporn, I think those answers gave me a pretty good feel for how such a build would play out and has helped calm any desire to invest in it myself.

#7 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 06:01 AM

Just the other day, i saw a Locust Pirate's Bane with ECM, Stealth Armour, Tag, one small laser and, as the cherry on top, an AMS (pun intended). Poor thing didn't do well...

#8 InspectorG

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:46 PM

View PostDrCyanide, on 12 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

I've got a strange idea kicking around in my head that I can't quite shake. There are a few "support"-ish tools you can equip a mech with, such as AMS, ECM, Tag, NARC, UAV, and probably something else I'm forgetting (sensors?). These tools help keep the enemy team from hitting your allies while helping your allies hit them. I'm curious if the advantage created by those tools is enough to turn the tide of war in your teams favor, even if (worst case scenario) you don't have any damaging weapons on your mech.

Also, how would such a playstyle effect your c-bills and xp gains? I know you get some of each for spotting and being in formation, but you'd be missing out on a lot of damage/kill credit.


The only real 'support' role in Solo is:

Press W, do damage.

Doing this supports the team in amazing ways, and is somewhat rare.

#9 Tier5 Kerensky

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:48 PM

For cbills you just dish out as much damage as possible.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 13 March 2018 - 07:49 PM.


#10 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:50 PM

View PostDrCyanide, on 12 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:



Also, how would such a playstyle effect your c-bills and xp gains? I know you get some of each for spotting and being in formation, but you'd be missing out on a lot of damage/kill credit.



It would be horrible. You need wins, dmg, and kills to make cash. Pretty hard to get any of that with a "support" mech

#11 Throe

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:46 PM

The only real problem with this is that you can actually bring a "support" 'Mech that can also contribute very strongly to damage output and kills.

A dual AMS Summoner is a good example. You lose a bit of cooling capacity, and in return you get a great degree of protection from enemy missiles. A prime example is enemy MRM boats. If you stand just around a corner from an MRM boat firing at team mates further away from them than you are, you can shoot down almost every missile from an MRM 40 launch, rendering their MRM fire nearly completely ineffective.

Another very strong contender is the ECM Hellbringer, which can also mount AMS.

Other posters are correct here regarding the impact to CBill earnings, although CBill earnings now are far better with this type of build than they were years ago. I ran a match on Incursion the other day with a Timberwolf brawler on Polar Highlands and decided to go the long way but aimed to get to their base. I had very low damage overall, but still ended up with ~260k CBills for that match. It's worth mentioning that I was in a Hero, so it's probably closer to 200k, but that's still very respectable earnings for *only* attempting to engage the PvE objectives in a PvP game mode that clearly rewards PvP goals better.

You'll generally see inferior earnings across the board with a dedicated support build though. If I was going to do it at all, I'd take my Kitfox with ECM and 3 AMS.

Edited by Throe, 14 March 2018 - 04:56 PM.


#12 Evil Elmo

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:28 PM

View PostDrCyanide, on 12 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

I've got a strange idea kicking around in my head that I can't quite shake. There are a few "support"-ish tools you can equip a mech with, such as AMS, ECM, Tag, NARC, UAV, and probably something else I'm forgetting (sensors?). These tools help keep the enemy team from hitting your allies while helping your allies hit them. I'm curious if the advantage created by those tools is enough to turn the tide of war in your teams favor, even if (worst case scenario) you don't have any damaging weapons on your mech.

Also, how would such a playstyle effect your c-bills and xp gains? I know you get some of each for spotting and being in formation, but you'd be missing out on a lot of damage/kill credit.

Speaking from experience as someone who wasted money on a Raven 3L, no it can't work. You can NARC all you want, you can tell people what targets you NARC'd in voice chat, but 9 times out of 10 the potato LRM boats refuse to shoot them.

Edited by Plaid Ninja, 14 March 2018 - 05:30 PM.


#13 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:37 PM

In general in this game "support" mechs are mechs that the team must support rather than being generally useful to the team.

Why have one little mech that has a bunch of AMS and sensors and whatever on it when everyone on the team could just bring one AMS and be immune to missiles when working together as a team? Alternatively everyone just uses proper cover and positioning.

The best way to make sure your team doesn't take damage is to kill the enemies that would damage them or shoot them so hard that they fear peeking up again against your team. The best way to help your teammate kill an enemy is to open that enemy's armor up for them.

Support mechs drop off heavily in utility as the skill level of each player increases so that they're competent with getting their own shots without assistance and competent in dodging enemy shots.

#14 Koniving

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:40 AM

View PostDrCyanide, on 12 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

I've got a strange idea kicking around in my head that I can't quite shake. There are a few "support"-ish tools you can equip a mech with, such as AMS, ECM, Tag, NARC, UAV, and probably something else I'm forgetting (sensors?). These tools help keep the enemy team from hitting your allies while helping your allies hit them. I'm curious if the advantage created by those tools is enough to turn the tide of war in your teams favor, even if (worst case scenario) you don't have any damaging weapons on your mech.

Also, how would such a playstyle effect your c-bills and xp gains? I know you get some of each for spotting and being in formation, but you'd be missing out on a lot of damage/kill credit.

Income would go up, depending on how well others make use of your support. NARC and TAG would only give you real rewards if other players launch lockable missiles at your targets. Frequent use of UAVs however could pretty much annihilate any extra earnings however.

You'd get the same credit for kill assists provided you do some damage to them.

#15 Muriel Steiner

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 05:48 AM

As to whether you'd win games, the problem is that every single game mode can be won by killing the enemy team and then completing the objective.. while skirmish simply can't be won without destroying enemy mechs. Furthermore, whatever you bring in the way of support, the enemy team is likely to have as well, so the edge will always go to whichever team to can do more damage. I would say the OP's "worst case scenario" is a no go. But why should that be the worst case scenario.. the O.P. gets to CHOOSE what support 'mech is taken and what build of that support 'mech to use.. and you literally can't take a 'mech out if it has no weapons. So just make a support 'mech that actually has an offensive strategy in mind as well.

As to what the effect is on end game rewards, if done right, it's extremely good. I've had matches in my Kitfox where I've shot down over 700 missles (I know, right?), provided ecm cover for my team, AND used a UAV to light up most of the enemy team. All the rewards I got from that is WAY better than I would be getting if I just had some extra medium lasers on my 'mech. The downside is, sometimes the enemy just refuses to play an entire team of missle boats and then close in to a range where you can cover them all in one UAV (how rude, right?).. in other words, the rewards are not only dependent on your skill, but also on how well your team actually uses your support, and what the enemy team is doing.. but that's how things go, huh?

#16 Water Bear

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 06:33 AM

View PostDrCyanide, on 12 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

I've got a strange idea kicking around in my head that I can't quite shake. There are a few "support"-ish tools you can equip a mech with, such as AMS, ECM, Tag, NARC, UAV, and probably something else I'm forgetting (sensors?). These tools help keep the enemy team from hitting your allies while helping your allies hit them. I'm curious if the advantage created by those tools is enough to turn the tide of war in your teams favor, even if (worst case scenario) you don't have any damaging weapons on your mech.

Also, how would such a playstyle effect your c-bills and xp gains? I know you get some of each for spotting and being in formation, but you'd be missing out on a lot of damage/kill credit.


You'll want to have at least a few medium lasers at all times, preferably in your arms.

The things you mention are entirely capable of changing the outcome of a match. The top 2 are UAVs and NARC. MWO is a game of imperfect information. If there's a UAV up and your team can see the enemy team, it's a huge advantage for a wide variety of reasons. Among them: You can see where and when a target is about to break cover to fire, and your missile boats can make it rain.

At T1, every match is non-stop UAV spam. I see 2-4 from both sides (for a total of 4-8) basically every match. Same with artillery strike. NARC is not uncommon, as well. People have figured out that UAVs can win matches. This is actually one reason I recommended carrying at least a few medium lasers - to shoot down enemy UAVs.

#17 Husker Dude

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 09:01 AM

View PostWrathOfDeadguy, on 12 March 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

NARC is even more marginal than TAG.



Honestly, I think NARC may be more effective, especially against more aware players who notice they've been NARCed (unless I'm mistaken there's no icon in the HUD that lets you know someone has a TAG on you, and unskilled players may not notice or identify the NARC icon). Even if no one on your team actually brought LRMs, getting NARCed will back off a lot of players instinctively, and it also doesn't disappear when you break line of sight.
I don't think it's necessarily worth the tonnage on IS side, but there are times that I've experimented with it and it can be a fun weapon even absent supporting LRMs.

#18 Koniving

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 03:10 PM

Narc is quite an investment in tonnage but if it can be spared there are quite a few advantages to it. Mostly what is already mentioned but having that is like having a tracer on someone you are chasing. When they try to go around behind you just wait for them with a massive load of damage the instant the game pauses for the narrator.

"It was at this moment he knew he ****** up."

Edited by Koniving, 19 March 2018 - 03:11 PM.


#19 SirSoggyDog

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 03:31 PM

No joke, I used to run nine tons of info tech on my STK for CW (BAP, CCONS, NARC+ammo). Called the build "Buddha Blimp" since it gave almost instant targeting info gathering time. It was useful for drop calling, the BAP being nice for countering ECM, and the constant NARC lock was good for convincing Puggies to focus fire. That was another era in CW though where much stronger ECMs where everywhere, and in any case I eventually decided that stuffing the mech with ASRM6s was a better option. You don't have to worry about calling a target as much when you've blown out a CT afterall.

I'll agree that CCONs isn't worth the tonnage, but BAP can still have it's use and is good if your not starved for heatsinks. NARC is very situational, but in the hands of a good drop caller, it can be useful even without LRMs on your team (This being said, a few UAVs are still superior).

#20 IllCaesar

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 07:01 PM

Can it? Yes.

https://imgur.com/a/rkKAS

Will it? Not very frequently.

Is it profitable? Only for NARC. That's not to say any of it is bad equipment. Its just hard to make money with anything but NARC.

If you want to play a mech with support equipment don't go the full haul. I've tried. Trying to run all of it costs too much weight and weakens you too much and stretches the equipment thin - its tough to try to run an AMS umbrela and NARC at the same time. That's not to mention your decrease in firepower, speed, or armour needed to make room for that equipment.





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