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Is Ballistics


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#1 Hank Chapel

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 09:38 PM

Hello,

This evening I took my Annihilator out to HPG manifold and tested 12 IS ballistic weapons on an awesome. I took notes of how long they took to kill the Atlas, how much ammo they required, and some other facts:
Posted Image
I made an error on the Ultra AC/20 heat required for kill, it should be 56 and 58.3 respectively.

Sorry, if it's a little hard to read, I had trouble figuring out how to post a table on the forum.

Theory heat required for the kill = the amount of heat you'd expect to generate firing enough shots for a kill.
Tons for 10 second kill = A measurement of weight efficiency. If you brought enough of that single weapon type to kill the Awesome in 10 seconds, how many tons of weapons + ammo would that be?
Structure for 10 second kill = a measurement of weapon size efficiency. If you brought enough of that single weapon type to kill the Awesome in 10 seconds, how many slots would the weapons and ammo take up?

Some takeaways:
LBX does perhaps 10% more damage than the corresponding AC, but the pellets aren't going to hit the same component unless you're very close. LB 2-x is probably as efficient as the AC/2 at 400 meters, LB 5-x is probably as efficient as the AC/5 at around 300m, the LB 10-x is about 175m, and the LB 20-x is efficient within 150m or so. If you're outside those ranges, you're better off using an Autocannon or Ultra Autocannon, which are good for vastly longer ranges.

AC/2 > UAC/2, but AC20 < UAC20. The bigger you get, the better the Ultra upgrade was. One reason is because Ultras cost one ton more than their AC counterpart... in the 2 size it's a 17% difference between 6 tons and 7, but in the 20 size it's only a 7% difference between 14 tons and 15. Also, the Ultra AC/2 in particular seemed to be difficult to get the dual fire going reliably - Maybe I'm just not good at clicking that fast. Lastly, when your weapon does Jam, the UAC jams for long enough to be worth ducking into cover and then re-engaging. If one of your Ultra AC/2 jams, you're not going to want to do that.

There's a lot of RNG with the Ultras. When they don't jam, they lead to some very fast kills. But when your UAC 10 jams 4 times, you're going to be cursing them.

I don't think there's any size of the LBX where the 10% dps increase at point blank range is worth the 40% dps decrease at midrange (and probably 80% dps decrease at long range!). The damage drop off is just too extreme. I don't see much point in running Ultra AC/2 when you can run AC/2. AC 5 and UAC 5 are close to the same both in heat and damage, so that's a wash. The UAC 10 jammed too much to be economical, might just be rng... but I would probably go with the AC/10 over the UAC 10 anyway because the heat difference is pretty big. I would definitely take the Ultra AC/20 over the AC/20 though, the difference in damage is just so good! I wouldn't want to put two Ultra AC/20 on the same mech though, because of ghost heat.

Winners: AC/2, UAC/20
Decent: AC/5, UAC/5, AC/10, UAC/10, AC/20.
Do not want: LBX-anything, UAC/2.

Edited by Hank Chapel, 16 March 2018 - 06:48 AM.


#2 justcallme A S H

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:14 PM

Can't see the graph...

Anyway UACs are boss level good, especially UAC10s (even if they are a bit hot). You just gotta use them in a proper way.

They are burst DPS. Burst, use cover - repeat

Sitting in the open trying to constant damage is what normal ACs are good at not what UACs are good at.
Tests like those, which are not real world as such against static targets, are only circumstancial at best because in a game I'd rather take UACs tap, tap, tap and doubletap when incoming fire is about to start and move back to cover. Result is better than normal ACs and you get more damage out in that time albeit, less pinoint (well, not a lot less if you can aim).

There are not many mechs I run normal ACs on for this reason unless I want a high PPFLD and then instant torso twisting (AKA: Atlas, if it's mobility did not totally suck now).

#3 Hank Chapel

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 06:51 AM

Sorry, hadn't used photobucket in a while and had forgotten that they have decided to be a company that has neither morals nor value. Can you see the graph now?

#4 Koniving

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 07:05 AM

View PostHank Chapel, on 15 March 2018 - 09:38 PM, said:

Do not want: LBX-anything, UAC/2.

Test the LBX after unlocking the spread nodes and compare to other results.
See if your opinion changes.

(Include double range into your tests for all IS ballistics, you'll notice something else fun, too.)

#5 Hank Chapel

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 07:27 AM

View PostKoniving, on 16 March 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

Test the LBX after unlocking the spread nodes and compare to other results.
See if your opinion changes.

(Include double range into your tests for all IS ballistics, you'll notice something else fun, too.)

My Annihilator had all relevant ballistic skills unlocked/purchased.

I didn't try double range tests. I don't know how well HPG Manifold would work for that, I might have to try a different map.

Edited by Hank Chapel, 16 March 2018 - 07:28 AM.


#6 Horseman

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:00 PM

View PostHank Chapel, on 15 March 2018 - 09:38 PM, said:

Do not want: LBX-anything, UAC/2.

Test the UAC/2s on something with Jam Chance quirk, such as Dragon 5N.

#7 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:14 PM

Most IS ballistic weapons have niches. The AC-10 shines like a diamond when used with a PPC+LPPC or a single HPPC.

Everyone else enjoys UAC-2s, I don't.

#8 Koniving

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:36 AM

Did you try the double range?

Just test any one UAC or AC and then compare to any LBX of the same scale (2, 5, 10, 20) and I think you'll see something very interesting. Note this only works with the IS ballistics...although I don't believe this should be just an IS trait.

(I would spoil it but I would like to see the actual impression it gives.)

#9 Damnedtroll

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 08:34 AM

LBX pretty easy to aim, if your ac10 hit 25% less because of the slow velocity you get way better damage with the lb10x, spread or not. It's not only paper stat... you need to land it to do the damage.

If the mech is cored somewhere and you shot an lbx10 on it at 500m, you will hit the cored parts most of the time and get a chance to do critical damage, hit an ammo bin, diseabling weapons, etc.

Yep it will spread the pellet but it will bring some advantages balancing the lack of pinpoint damage at long
range.

PPC and LBX have more or less the same velocity and work well together. PPC for the holing capacity and lbx to transform your target in a popcorn with crits.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 17 March 2018 - 08:48 AM.


#10 Zergling

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:00 PM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 16 March 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

Most IS ballistic weapons have niches. The AC-10 shines like a diamond when used with a PPC+LPPC or a single HPPC.


I've had some good success running 2x HPPC + 1x AC10 on my Marauder 3R.

Being able to tap out 40 pinpoint damage at 450 meters without gauss charge up is really nice.

#11 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 08:57 PM

View PostZergling, on 17 March 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:


I've had some good success running 2x HPPC + 1x AC10 on my Marauder 3R.

Being able to tap out 40 pinpoint damage at 450 meters without gauss charge up is really nice.


Nice build. I will most likely try it out soon.





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