Jump to content

- - - - -

The Game Ripped Me Off Hard


50 replies to this topic

#1 dBreeze

    Rookie

  • Survivor
  • 6 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 01:07 AM

I bought the ZEU-9S2, the most expensive of the Zeus variants. It was over $11 million c-bills, but I thought it looked worth the price because it has a lighter and more expensive engine. More expensive = better engine.

WOW WAS I WRONG

The XL Engine on Zeus is undeniably terrible. The Zeus seems fairly fragile compared to other assaults as is, but now I also explode if I lose a shoulder because of the XL! This is AWFUL. I cannot survive engagements because the Zeus's shoulders are HUGE EASY TARGETS, so I tend to explode in almost any exchange of fire. I feel tankier in my Panther!

Ok, all I have to do is switch out the engine for a heavier one, right? NOPE. Not only was the engine more expensive in the first place, it also costs $2 - 4 MILLION C-BILLS to replace it with another! This engine alone is costing me $5 - 6 million total c-bills easily without providing any benefit, not to mention many lost games because of my fragile assault mech not pulling its weight! I've resorted to ambushes and flanking in order to win any engagements at all, things assaults are not meant to do or good at.

I feel like I've been scammed! MWO was the used car salesman and the ZEU-9S2 was the lemon. I know there is no way to undo the damage that's already done, but this game really needs to get rid of these noob traps and make the detriments of the XL engine more apparent. There is NOTHING in the game I've seen that tells me the XL engine's massive drawback! Why isn't this info displayed in the Mech Lab??? It wasn't until I asked in game chat why my mech was exploding even with my torso, head, and legs still in tact that I learned the truth.

tl;dr Do not buy a Zeus with an XL Engine! It is a noob trap and a waste of money!

Edited by dBreeze, 20 March 2018 - 01:24 AM.


#2 PaquIS

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 115 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 01:27 AM

To be fair you should always buy the mechs based on their hardpoints and what you want to do with it. What engine/weapons/upgrades it comes with doesn't matter. You can sell the equipment you dont need like weapons you dont want to use at all or that really big XL engine which you propably wont ever use.

Then you equip your new mech with proper engine and weapons.

#3 Reverend Herring

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 124 posts
  • LocationFinland

Posted 20 March 2018 - 01:39 AM

Some mechs are XL-friendlier than the others. A Zeus with it's massive ST:s is not one of the friendlier chassis..

I would how ever suggest against selling that engine. They are massively expensive to buy back once you figure out a build (on a non-zeus mech) that would benefit from the XL.

As a rule of thumb: Never sell engines (except maybe the stock-Urbie one. That's just junk)

#4 dBreeze

    Rookie

  • Survivor
  • 6 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 01:43 AM

I actually did buy it based on the hard points first. I wanted to use its wide arm reach to shoot around corners, mainly the 3 missile hard points on one arm and two ballistic on the other, but I thought the xl engine would be an added bonus.

Also, that's a good idea. I don't have the c-bills to replace it now, but I didn't know I could remove an engine from the mech without a replacement and sell it.

View PostReverend Herring, on 20 March 2018 - 01:39 AM, said:

Some mechs are XL-friendlier than the others. A Zeus with it's massive ST:s is not one of the friendlier chassis..

I would how ever suggest against selling that engine. They are massively expensive to buy back once you figure out a build (on a non-zeus mech) that would benefit from the XL.

As a rule of thumb: Never sell engines (except maybe the stock-Urbie one. That's just junk)


I'm heavily considering it because I doubt I'll need an XL 320 in the future. I did the math and it'd be a 3 million loss if I need to rebuy it.

Edited by dBreeze, 20 March 2018 - 01:47 AM.


#5 The Basilisk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 3,269 posts
  • LocationFrankfurt a.M.

Posted 20 March 2018 - 02:05 AM

The real win with the Zeu-9S2 is that it comes with DHS upgrade.
Try Mr Doomfist as build.
In general the Zeus is a stylish good to pilot mech but not very competitive.
Its fun though as long as you meet enough ppl with no clue what they are doing.

#6 Scyther

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts
  • LocationOntario, Canada

Posted 20 March 2018 - 03:43 AM

Not trying to be a pita, but I believe the game showed you in advance what you would get and then delivered exactly what it told you it would.

The fact that you either misunderstood or were unaware of the tradeoffs involved in using an IS XL engine on an assault mech is not "the game ripping you off". It's a case of do your homework before dropping the big bucks.

You can sell the engine for half price, or set it aside for another mech that will benefit more from it, or learn to build and pilot the Zeus in such a way that your side torso getting shot off is less likely. When you say 'no benefit from it' you are ignoring the fact that your Zeus has more speed and more payload tonnage while using it, put those to work.

In general I find that a decent opponent takes out my center torso as or more often than a side torso anyway, so learning to twist/shield/spread damage and not face-tank is a key skill regardless of mech.

#7 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,694 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 20 March 2018 - 05:59 AM

OP, you fell for a lack of research. If you asked around about that mech first, we'd have told you.about it.

Also, remember that engines can be swapped between mechs. New players are advised to abuse that as much as possible instead of buying multiple engines - that XL would for example be at home in several fast medium mechs.

This is more or less the build I run on mine (recreated from memory, will double-check once I'm home): https://mwo.smurfy-n...1775d9fcf881d5b

#8 Pain G0D

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Sho-ko
  • Sho-ko
  • 617 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 06:41 AM

Don't worry you are not alone . I bet most of us bought a mech and then sold it in disgust . I still fall in that trap .

Try to only buy 40 or 50 percent discount mechs . You just about get your money back you need to sell it .

Before you buy any mech , see what the champion build is , also check out mech specs.com and meta mechs .com.

#9 Eisenhorne

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,111 posts
  • LocationUpstate NY

Posted 20 March 2018 - 06:54 AM

Things to keep in mind when buying a mech:

1) What do you want to do with it? Ignore its default loadout entirely, its probably going to suck. Look at the available hardpoints. Do they match what you want to do?

2) Check the mech's quirks. If it has something like 10% energy range, maybe plan on throwing some ER LL's onto it to take advantage of that fact.

3) Plan on spending ~8 million C-Bills over the mech's cost to customize it. That should include a new engine, endo, ferro, and new weapons.

4) Mock it up on https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab . Does your loadout fit? Does it have proper cooling for the weapons you're giving it? Enough ammo?

5) Check this list: https://docs.google....t#gid=868162679 to ensure you're mech isn't in the "Tier 4" category. This isn't comprehensive, and is sometimes debatable, but a good reference.

#10 IllCaesar

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 980 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:09 AM

View PostEisenhorne, on 20 March 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

5) Check this list: https://docs.google....t#gid=868162679 to ensure you're mech isn't in the "Tier 4" category. This isn't comprehensive, and is sometimes debatable, but a good reference.


For a relatively new player this list probably isn't a great thing to stick so close to. These builds presume a certain level of knowledge and proficiency that a new player wouldn't have. It also presumes that they would be up against other players who also have that level of knowledge and proficiency.

#11 Eisenhorne

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,111 posts
  • LocationUpstate NY

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:22 AM

The builds presume certain knowledge, but none of them are exactly harder to use than similar mechs in the weight class.

#12 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,694 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:27 AM

View PostHorseman, on 20 March 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

This is more or less the build I run on mine (recreated from memory, will double-check once I'm home): https://mwo.smurfy-n...1775d9fcf881d5b

Wrong ammo counts and some armor - this is the correct build: https://mwo.smurfy-n...30f8e38580310ea

#13 The Basilisk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 3,269 posts
  • LocationFrankfurt a.M.

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:29 AM

Also he could have done a lot worse....bought the Nightstar preorder for dual Gauss and dual PPC....well you know what shortly after this it got nerfed into nothingness.
And as it came out I found the Mech to be beyond worthless with its mobility rates and hitboxes....a true drama.

Archer....doa
Jagermech....nerfed into oblivion.
BlackKnight ... prominent victime to first the rescaling ******* violation all over the board and then the engine desync.

So many sad storys....Posted Image

#14 Void Angel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Marauder
  • The Marauder
  • 6,575 posts
  • LocationParanoiaville

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:33 AM

View PostdBreeze, on 20 March 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:


I'm heavily considering it because I doubt I'll need an XL 320 in the future. I did the math and it'd be a 3 million loss if I need to rebuy it.

Well, it's a decision you have to make - but how many hours of work does that 3 million represent, is the question. Additionally, you will have a use for a 320 XL in the future, I guarantee it. So you have to balance the value to you of the resell price of that engine, versus the hours (and it will be hours) of work needed to recoup the loss later on in time. Only you can really make that decision, though it should be significant to you that every veteran player here will tell you to keep it; just be sure you're calculating the opportunity costs correctly.

#15 Spheroid

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,060 posts
  • LocationSouthern Wisconsin

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:46 AM

A 320XL is a very good and usable engine. I strongly advise against selling it. I would also not complain about engine costs. Several million were given away for the trial by fire event and more is being given away in the pot of gold event with free premium time. No one should be in poverty at the moment.

Your mistake was buying a Zeus. Should have bought a Battlemaster or Marauder IIC.

#16 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:52 AM

View PostdBreeze, on 20 March 2018 - 01:07 AM, said:

The XL Engine on Zeus is undeniably terrible. The Zeus seems fairly fragile compared to other assaults as is, but now I also explode if I lose a shoulder because of the XL! This is AWFUL. I cannot survive engagements because the Zeus's shoulders are HUGE EASY TARGETS, so I tend to explode in almost any exchange of fire. I feel tankier in my Panther!


Inner Sphere XL engines are easily destroyed.
Also; did you change anything else? The Gauss Rifle is prone to exploding pretty easily, which then chain reacts. You also have all the ammo in the right torso... giving you a 40% (10% each) chance of going boom... Basically while it is a good mech in tabletop mechanics, in MWO it is a deathtrap as it is built.

While I recommend changing the weapons altogether to things more...compatible with one another... here's a change to the stock mech that would make it MUCH more survivable with the stock equipment.

First off the Zeus's stock loadout was significantly under-armored. I added more than 30 points of armor to the center torso alone, and the side torsos received nearly 20 points more armor. The ammunition was relocated. (Note I didn't use the legs because the common tactic of MG-spammers is to run up and pepper the legs while running in circles until ammo in the legs go boom). The heatsinks were taken out of the engine and moved into the left torso in order to use them as damage-soaking insulation for the large laser to keep it from easily being destroyed. Also changed ferro armor to standard and put in endo steel. Ferro makes sense in Battletech, but MWO lacks repair and rearm as well as limits on supplies, so ferro does not make sense to use in MWO.

Run your Zeus like that... account for your changed weapons... you will find it a LOT more survivable.

Note: I did not change the engine or any stock equipment (aside from structure/armor). I simply relocated it.

(I did remove the CASE; it was unnecessary in MWO's mechanics.)

#17 Metus regem

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Sureshot
  • The Sureshot
  • 10,282 posts
  • LocationNAIS College of Military Science OCS courses

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:55 AM

I'm sorry, I know you are new OP, but I have to say:

Caveat emptor

(Or Buyer beware)

There is the new player section of these boards, the weight class specific sections as well, the Zuse wasn't going anywhere, you could've come and asked, tested the build you wanted in Smurfy's, presented it to the board and asked for advice before spending the space bucks.

#18 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:57 AM

Zeus isn't bad. It isn't great, just good with a little finesse. Zeus with an XL engine isn't terrible either, just can't do head-strong rushes into the firing line of 3+ mechs. The issue is the placement of the equipment effectively makes it a death trap.

So check out the link I gave which rearranges all the equipment. (I highly recommend replacing all the stock weapons, none of them are compatible in MWO's mechanics.)

#19 The Schwartz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 126 posts

Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:03 AM

You would've loved the old skill tree setup, you'd have to get 3 variants just to master the one you wanted to use... which.. i'm now rebuying because... skill points drain the pocket....Yay for event sales...

#20 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,694 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:04 AM

View PostKoniving, on 20 March 2018 - 08:57 AM, said:

Zeus isn't bad. It isn't great, just good with a little finesse. Zeus with an XL engine isn't terrible either, just can't do head-strong rushes into the firing line of 3+ mechs.
No mech can do it, really.
Zeus' specialty is in being very mobile for an assault mech - it has the acceleration, deceleration and turn rate of a 55-tonner while being 25 tons heavier.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users