Jump to content

New Hero Mech Builds


38 replies to this topic

#1 PeeWrinkle

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 384 posts

Posted 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM

First, thanks PGI for the free Hero mechs, they are great!

Second, I have been experimenting with builds. I should warn you many are very similar, as I am trying to figure out what works best for me.

Please share improvements and completely different, most likely better, builds.

I will start with the Roughneck Powerhouse.

Powerhouse LPL & MRM Builds:
Build 1: I enjoy this build and with the LXL I can use the entire right side as a shield
Build 2: Adds HMGs and switches to an XL. A bit squishy IMO, and hoped the HMGs would help me sustain fire at closer ranges as the cooldowns on the LPL and MRM are a bit long unskilled.
Build 3: Switches the HMGs for MGs and adds DHS. Preferred over Build 2.

Powerhouse UAC & ASRM Builds:
Build 4: Decent build, but the UAC facetime and XL make this one a bit squishy for me.
Build 5: Swaps out MPLs in Build 4 for ERML. There is a difference, but being able to run a LXL has increased my survivability.

Powerhouse Splat Build: I LOVE SPLAT BUILDS (which makes me odd)
Build 6: My favorite so far. I started using splat builds on my shadowhawks and always enjoy when I can duplicate that somewhere else.

Powerhouse Dakka Builds: I'm not so hot at DAKKA, but I try.
Build 7: AC5, no backup weapons, and an LXL. Decent survival and it is decently effective for me, but not great.
Build 8: RAC2, Fun. It is amazing how little damage you due, but how often people abandon the encounter when you sustain fire.
Build 9: RAC5 with two RAC2's. A little extra damage, but runs through ammo fast.
Build 10: AC2;s with some backup MPLs. Should work, but I stink in this one.

Now for my Vanguard builds. When first using a Clan Omni I only build with the base pods. I did try one build so far that used pods from other variants. At this point I am going to start down that road. So far I am have not been super impressed with my builds. The LRM builds work well pugging, but I am not an LRM fan, so I am struggling a little more to find what I like with this one.

Vanguard Builds:
Build 1: SRM4s, UAC5s, and a HLL. Sustains fire well. Very cool. Requires a bit to much face time and the HLL recycle rate is just too slow unskilled.
Build 2: ATM9s and LPL. I like this build a lot. But smart players rush you and you just don't have enough firepower up close. If you can stick with the group and stay outside of 200m lookout!
Build 3: ALRM15 and HLL. It works well, but it LRMs, not a fan, but great for grinding.
Build 4: ASRM6s, LPL, and LBX10. This is splattish and is my preferred build so far!
Build 5: Another LRM build, with MPLs for backup. Better LRMer than build 3, and has ECM. Good grinder as well, but not a fan.

Any suggestions, changes, improvements, etc you can give would be much appreciated!

Edited by PeeWrinkle, 21 March 2018 - 09:37 AM.


#2 Zergling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Angel
  • The Angel
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 21 March 2018 - 09:31 AM

View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 2: Adds HMGs and switches to an XL. A bit squishy IMO, and hoped the HMGs would help me sustain fire at closer ranges as the cooldowns on the LPL and MRM are a bit long unskilled.
Build 3: Switches the HMGs for MGs and adds DHS. Preferred over Build 2.


isXL engines just to have some MGs is not a good build choice. MGs should are generally only a good idea when boating in numbers of 4+, on small and fast mechs.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 4: Decent build, but the UAC facetime and XL make this one a bit squishy for me.


isXL engines should also be avoided for brawlers. Only quite high skill players can compensate for the weakness of isXL over LFE with those sorts of builds.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 6: My favorite so far. I started using splat builds on my shadowhawks and always enjoy when I can duplicate that somewhere else.


Drop the MGs, the right arm armor and some leg armor, increase to an AC20. Drop from Medium Pulse to standard Mediums if you need more ammo.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 7: AC5, no backup weapons, and an LXL. Decent survival and it is decently effective for me, but great.


I've tried triple AC5 myself on the Powerhouse, and felt it to be incredibly anemic for some reason.
I think the aimpoint of the arm ACs is different from that of the torso AC, so it spreads damage far greater than it should be doing.

Aside from that, the Roughneck -1B and -2A variants can do triple AC5 builds with the benefit of -15% ballistic cooldown quirks, so it is best to run triple ballistic builds on those variants instead.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 8: RAC2, Fun. It is amazing how little damage you due, but how often people abandon the encounter when you sustain fire.
Build 9: RAC5 with two RAC2's. A little extra damage, but runs through ammo fast.


Don't do RACs. RACs are bad.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 10: AC2;s with some backup MPLs. Should work, but I stink in this one.


I suspect that is going to have the same aimpoint problem as the triple AC5 build.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 1: SRM4s, UAC5s, and a HLL. Sustains fire well. Very cool. Requires a bit to much face time and the HLL recycle rate is just too slow unskilled.


Probably better going with 2x UAC10 + 2x SRM6 with Artemis.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 2: ATM9s and LPL. I like this build a lot. But smart players rush you and you just don't have enough firepower up close. If you can stick with the group and stay outside of 200m lookout!
Build 3: ALRM15 and HLL. It works well, but it LRMs, not a fan, but great for grinding.


Machineguns, just no.



View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Build 4: ASRM6s, LPL, and LBX10. This is splattish and is my preferred build so far!


Probably better off dropping the LPL for another SRM6 by using the Prime left arm.



EDIT: here's some builds I've come up with.

Powerhouse:
1x UAC20, 1xMRM40, 280LFE alternate for more speed; 1x UAC20, 3xMRM10, 300LFE

Vanguard (avoiding C, D and Manul pods, as I don't have access to those):
4x UAC2 (heatsinks could be traded for ER Meds; I found that build just too hot when unskilled though).
3x UAC5, 3x ER Medium
2x Gauss, 2x ER Medium (note: SQUISHY)
1x Gauss, 2x Large Pulse

Edited by Zergling, 21 March 2018 - 10:07 AM.


#3 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 21 March 2018 - 09:41 AM

Someone doesn't like MGs... I've personally had great success with them, pairing them with lasers of similar range. Or just as a backup on high heat mechs.

However, anyone whom doesn't know that MGs are hitscan weapons, and therefore IGNORE THE BULLET EFFECT, all hits are instantaneous and its basically a laser with no heat and a 'bullet counter'... Too many people try to lead the bullet effect onto the enemy which does zero damage. Ignore the effect, ignore the tracers, in this game they are meaningless.

(That said... some good builds... some questionable. Some make me wonder. Some look like fun.)

Note: Some of the MG hate is probably due to the same reason for the RAC hate... You have to "stare" at the enemy for a length of time for it to be effective, leaving you susceptible to return fire. This is a problem because it means they can hammer into you with what is likely a deadlier assortment of weapons and turn away... while you continue to stare for their buddy to finish you off.

MGs and RACs are not good for engaging multiple enemies for this reason.

Edited by Koniving, 21 March 2018 - 09:45 AM.


#4 Zergling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Angel
  • The Angel
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 21 March 2018 - 10:07 AM

View PostKoniving, on 21 March 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Someone doesn't like MGs... I've personally had great success with them, pairing them with lasers of similar range. Or just as a backup on high heat mechs.


I'll just say that we have different standards for success.



View PostKoniving, on 21 March 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

However, anyone whom doesn't know that MGs are hitscan weapons, and therefore IGNORE THE BULLET EFFECT, all hits are instantaneous and its basically a laser with no heat and a 'bullet counter'... Too many people try to lead the bullet effect onto the enemy which does zero damage. Ignore the effect, ignore the tracers, in this game they are meaningless.


I am aware of this.



View PostKoniving, on 21 March 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Note: Some of the MG hate is probably due to the same reason for the RAC hate... You have to "stare" at the enemy for a length of time for it to be effective, leaving you susceptible to return fire. This is a problem because it means they can hammer into you with what is likely a deadlier assortment of weapons and turn away... while you continue to stare for their buddy to finish you off.


That is probably the primary reason why MGs aren't a good weapon. Staring at enemies that are shooting you is just a bad idea; even if you can out-DPS or out-tank them, you'll simply take too much damage to continue the battle.

There is a chance they'll do better in 1v1 Solaris battles than 12v12 Quickplay, but for now I avoid them on non-lights (or light-ish mediums like the Cicada 3C and Viper).

Like, they can still be effective on non-lights, but it requires enemies to basically ignore the MG user.
For better consistency when enemies aren't that generous, it is better to use the tonnage and space on other weapons, more heatsinks or a bigger engine.


Other severe disadvantage of MGs: range. Battles under ~150 meters can't be counted on. Even if they do occur in a battle, a lot of shooting will still occur outside that range.
LMGs are a tad better in that regard, but their damage and spread leaves a lot to be desired.


RACs suffer the same stare disadvantage as MGs, and while they have better range their spread is much worse.
Beyond about 300 meters they basically can't concentrate damage.

Then there's their spinup/down mechanic and jams, which results in their overall DPS output being fairly low.

I just have far better success with UACs and regular ACs, and I'm far from the only player; general opinion in the higher skilled players is that RACs are trash.



EDIT: for MG vs non-MG, go back to Build 6 for Powerhouse in the OP; the MGs simply aren't worth it compared to more heatsinks and/or more speed.
Even just dropping the pair of MGs, ammo, arm armor and half a ton of armor of the legs allows the engine to be increased from 280 to 300 and 2 heatsinks to be added.

That increases sustained DPS of the LBX10 + SRM4s + Medium Pulse from 5.64 to 6.13. That is only an 8.6% increase (along with a 7.2% increase in top speed) but the limitations of MGs is so great I'd gladly take that improvement.

Edited by Zergling, 21 March 2018 - 10:32 AM.


#5 Steel Raven

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,367 posts

Posted 21 March 2018 - 10:36 AM

The Pros and Cons of MGs come down to play style like any other weapons. I never seem to get the insta crits others do shooting me with MGs but others seem to do well enough taking out my weapons.

I'm personally skipping MGs, the AC/MRM combos look interesting.

#6 Ertur

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 565 posts

Posted 21 March 2018 - 10:41 AM

I think I've only ever found RAC to be useful on an Urbie, and even then just for the annoyance factor more than for the damage. Anything else is better served with an actual weapon.

Annoyance illustrated:


#7 jss78

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 2,575 posts
  • LocationHelsinki

Posted 21 March 2018 - 10:48 AM

I'm OK with LMG's, even 2-3 of them, if I have unused hardpoints, and if I have other weapons with an overlapping range. It's a bit of heat-free DPS at low tonnage, and I'll take it.

Exception would be if the hardpoints are on an arm I otherwise wouldn't armour. Then the effective tonnage required is too much.

I hear the argument about requiring face time, but IMO those situations where that guy 200 m from you simply isn't targetting you, and you can fire away safely, happen fairly often.

My major issue with the above builds is the amount of ammo. With a low/medium speed 'mech, you just don't get enough time to target someone to need 2 tons for 3xMG.

I haven't run a regular MG let alone HMG a single time after LMG's landed. I have no use for ultra-short-range weapons like that.

#8 panzer1b

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 703 posts

Posted 21 March 2018 - 11:40 AM

Well for what its worth, here are my builds on the 2 new free heros i got.

Sun-Lolcust:

2xUAC-10, ERPPC, fairly good sustained and burst DPS, ability to harass at range, and all the weapons are good at mid range or longer so i dont have to get those terrible hitboxes near anything. That and while its a bit cooky with all guns, you can maintain just the dual UAC-10s on maps like terra therma solong as you never use both teh UACs and ERPPC simultaneously.

Pretty much everything else was bad or worthless on the mech. I was looking forward to dual gauss, but the combo of slot issues (barely any space in the torsos), coupled with terrible hitboxes makes it hard to run gauss without being neutered far quicker then you outta, and well, just 2 gauss rifles can be done on the hunch2c with the only downside of moving a hair slower at the end of the day. ATMs are bad due to no actuators (and ATMs are already super situational to begin with), LRMs are bad on any mech, and getting into SRM range with those hitboxes is about as useful as going out of bounds and suiciding. If it had more then 5 max energy, i could see laser vomit being solid, but it doesnt, and thus there is no reason to even try to arm it with energy since at most ud be able to do is 2HLL+3ERML, my hellbringer can bring 2 HLL and 6 ERML, with more DHS to boot..

Roughneck:

2xUAC-10, fairly duh, and a build u can run on many other 60-65t IS mechs, but it works insanely well actually. There really isnt much to it, it moves over 70KPH with a LFE, has a deadside that serves no purpose (you loose a bit of heat and speed when it goes, but u still have all the guns), and well its got decent armor quirks to go with it. Aslong as you can keep the weapons side from being shot off, you can do incredible amount of damage with it and even with teh burst nature of the UACs, its far more deadly then just AC-10s would be.

Alternatively (if you can stand the spread on MRMs), you can combine 1 AC/UAC10 with 40+ MRM tubes, or dual AC-10s with 10-20 tubes. Im not a fan since i dislike and dont do well with missiles, but it has both alfa strike and sustained DPS, just no ability to focus down targets crazy well.

If it had 3+, i would have tried triple LPL, but with just 2 energy, its not worth using those hardpoints at all, just strip the arm and use it as a shield side (any build worth playing will have at least the RT cannon shoulder which is valuable).

#9 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,694 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 21 March 2018 - 03:04 PM

View PostZergling, on 21 March 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

Powerhouse:
1x UAC20, 1xMRM40, 280LFE alternate for more speed; 1x UAC20, 3xMRM10, 300LFE

Fairly close to what I'm running: https://mwo.smurfy-n...be4cfecbe2c1773

#10 Zookeeper Dan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 487 posts
  • LocationBeer City USA

Posted 22 March 2018 - 07:37 AM

I put a Heavy Gauss in my Powerhouse because I could and most other builds work better on my other Roughnecks.

Standard 275, Heavy Gauss with 4.5 tons ammo, Endo, Light Ferro, 2 ER Mediums, and a CT MRM10 with a ton of ammo. Armor shaved from right arm.

For raw damage during the challenge I ran a LB20X with 3 SRM4's. It was fun but the 1C can play the same brawling role better because of the additional missile hardpoint (AC20, 4 SRM4s, and a LFE)

Played the Vanguard with stock pods and 2 LB10X and 3 SRM 4's. Only two games but completed the challenge and got 2nd and 4th highest damage with 4 total kills (2 solo) in an unskilled mech. And I forgot consumables.

#11 Me4oPuh

    Rookie

  • 4 posts

Posted 22 March 2018 - 08:05 AM

There are two topics about the new hero mechs. Since I see this was started first I consider the other topic duplicate and will post build here. Its for Vanguard:
https://mwo.smurfy-n...9935f8d83d45f1e

#12 Spare Parts Bin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Contaminator
  • Contaminator
  • 1,743 posts
  • LocationSearching alternate universes via temporal wormhole generator.

Posted 22 March 2018 - 05:11 PM

View PostMe4oPuh, on 22 March 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

There are two topics about the new hero mechs. Since I see this was started first I consider the other topic duplicate and will post build here. Its for Vanguard:
https://mwo.smurfy-n...9935f8d83d45f1e


Nice build. I am using a trio of LBX-2, 3 ERMLs,2 SRM-6's, a TC1, and CAP.

#13 Me4oPuh

    Rookie

  • 4 posts

Posted 23 March 2018 - 01:14 AM

Forgot to adjust armor for the center/side torsos in the sample build, but the main idea is you can strip some armor from other parts. In all my games when mech is detroyed the first thing that explodes is side torso. It simply magically catches all fire. Everithing that panzer1b described about the mech I can't describe better. So after suffering various other builds I ended with this. AC10 for when sustained dps is needed (when you are not the target but need to do dmg to help) wich is 8.88 dps for 2 AC10 with the new 2.25 seconds cooldown (without any cd skills and is 100% reliable dps). While using the two AC10 the heat meter is going down slowly accumilating for HLL to fire even on the hottest maps. If the game is trades with free time for cooling between them the combined AC + HLL is 56 dmg. All weapoms cover the medium range. I have also noted the build can be run on the Vanguard A variant with range bonuses from 8 piece (but is not hero) or the Vanguard.

For the Roughneck I have Reaver wich is the king of UAC10 so I will try some builds from this topic that doesnt include UAC10.

#14 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 4,694 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 23 March 2018 - 05:03 AM

After experimenting with Powerhouse, UAC20 + MRM30 seems to be my go-to build. MRM40 is a tad too hot.

Edited by Horseman, 23 March 2018 - 05:06 AM.


#15 Zergling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Angel
  • The Angel
  • 2,439 posts

Posted 23 March 2018 - 11:14 AM

After playing something like 31 battles in the Powerhouse, I settled on two builds.

First one is 1x UAC10 + 1x MRM20 + 2x MRM10
Second one is 3x AC2 + 2x ER Large

The UAC10 build is an evolution from my first instinct to run UAC20, but I found that such a brawler is too difficult for a player like myself to use in the solo queue, so I figured I'd go for more range in the shoulder cannon for better poke-ability.
4 tons of ammo for the UAC10 might seem excessive, but I tend to poke shoot a lot with it.

Second build comes from a desire for sustained ranged dakka; I originally went with triple UAC2 and a single ER Large, but found UAC2s to be kinda meh for sustained firepower due to their jamming.
So dropped to regular AC2s and added a second ER Large. Without much in the way of heatskills, I can't fire the ER Larges constantly, but they add a bit extra firepower in a pinch, plus give me something to fight with if I lose my right side.

I haven't tried a triple AC5 build again, but triple AC2 works reasonably ok, so my complaints about triple AC5 were probably incorrect.


As for the Vanguard, I've also tried the 2x UAC10 + 1x Large Pulse build with Vanguard 8 set quirk bonuses, and it works well.

#16 Spare Parts Bin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Contaminator
  • Contaminator
  • 1,743 posts
  • LocationSearching alternate universes via temporal wormhole generator.

Posted 23 March 2018 - 04:22 PM

View PostZergling, on 23 March 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

After playing something like 31 battles in the Powerhouse, I settled on two builds.

First one is 1x UAC10 + 1x MRM20 + 2x MRM10
Second one is 3x AC2 + 2x ER Large

The UAC10 build is an evolution from my first instinct to run UAC20, but I found that such a brawler is too difficult for a player like myself to use in the solo queue, so I figured I'd go for more range in the shoulder cannon for better poke-ability.
4 tons of ammo for the UAC10 might seem excessive, but I tend to poke shoot a lot with it.

Second build comes from a desire for sustained ranged dakka; I originally went with triple UAC2 and a single ER Large, but found UAC2s to be kinda meh for sustained firepower due to their jamming.
So dropped to regular AC2s and added a second ER Large. Without much in the way of heatskills, I can't fire the ER Larges constantly, but they add a bit extra firepower in a pinch, plus give me something to fight with if I lose my right side.

I haven't tried a triple AC5 build again, but triple AC2 works reasonably ok, so my complaints about triple AC5 were probably incorrect.


As for the Vanguard, I've also tried the 2x UAC10 + 1x Large Pulse build with Vanguard 8 set quirk bonuses, and it works well.


Sounds like solid builds. I am still experimenting.

#17 Roughneck45

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Handsome Devil
  • The Handsome Devil
  • 4,452 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 23 March 2018 - 06:12 PM

I settled on quad ML's and Dual UAC10's for the sunspider.

3 SRM6 and LB20 for the roughneck.

#18 Havyek

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 3
  • 1,349 posts
  • LocationBarrie, ON

Posted 23 March 2018 - 06:15 PM

I've been having some success/fun with:
2AC10 + PPC
The #s are a bit off. You can actually carry 4 tons of AC10 ammo

Edited by Havyek, 23 March 2018 - 06:16 PM.


#19 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,575 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 23 March 2018 - 08:09 PM

View PostPeeWrinkle, on 21 March 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Vanguard Builds:


I've gone through some builds for the Vanguard myself, and I've solidly settled on one build that works really well. In total, I found three different builds I thought did alright, but in the end only one prevailed.

The best build I found was two LRM15s, two UAC5s and a HML backup weapon, with ammo to taste (I have 2.5 tons UAC5 ammo, rest LRM ammo personally). Considering the large side torsos of the Sun Spider, I found it best to be sneaky, flank and use ridges/hill/terrain to my advantage. Indirect when needed/possible, but then poke out and UAC5 and HML as much as possible. Get a few shots off and then duck behind cover again. Been giving me solid performance and been a lot of fun.

I have been seeing the more common dual UAC10 and ERPPC. Never tried it, but it looks solid. I personally did dual UAC10, HML and 3 LRM5s. Very sparing on the LRM ammo. I didn't like it too much after a few run, but it was reasonable enough.

The last build I tried was dual UAC10 and three HMLs. Good solid direct fire punch, but with tissue paper side torsos the size of barn doors... just couldn't deal much in the way of damage sadly.


Just my input.

#20 Spare Parts Bin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Contaminator
  • Contaminator
  • 1,743 posts
  • LocationSearching alternate universes via temporal wormhole generator.

Posted 24 March 2018 - 05:12 AM

View PostTesunie, on 23 March 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:


I've gone through some builds for the Vanguard myself, and I've solidly settled on one build that works really well. In total, I found three different builds I thought did alright, but in the end only one prevailed.

The best build I found was two LRM15s, two UAC5s and a HML backup weapon, with ammo to taste (I have 2.5 tons UAC5 ammo, rest LRM ammo personally). Considering the large side torsos of the Sun Spider, I found it best to be sneaky, flank and use ridges/hill/terrain to my advantage. Indirect when needed/possible, but then poke out and UAC5 and HML as much as possible. Get a few shots off and then duck behind cover again. Been giving me solid performance and been a lot of fun.

I have been seeing the more common dual UAC10 and ERPPC. Never tried it, but it looks solid. I personally did dual UAC10, HML and 3 LRM5s. Very sparing on the LRM ammo. I didn't like it too much after a few run, but it was reasonable enough.

The last build I tried was dual UAC10 and three HMLs. Good solid direct fire punch, but with tissue paper side torsos the size of barn doors... just couldn't deal much in the way of damage sadly.


Just my input.


Would ECM be of benefit?





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users