179 replies to this topic

[InspectorG]

Vellron2005, on 22 March 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

Then let's see how long it takes a 12 MG Piranha to kill a Direwolf? If it's on it's back - seconds. How is that ok?

A decent Dire pilot will sneeze on a Piranha and kill it at range. Most of that Piranhas skill was making it over to that Dire without getting one-shotted.

Lights are OP cuz most players cant aim.
Lights are OP cuz most players dont look at their MinMaps.
Lights are OP cuz most players dont help each other or Comm.
Lights are OP cuz most players dont notice they are being rear cored.


Thats why the Solo que is populated mainly by Lights.....

[Dee Eight]

DjPush, on 22 March 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

The pilot did well in the video.... BUT.

It's BS. Machine guns should have little to no damage on fully armored mechs. Lore doesn't even consider them anti mech weapons. They are for infantry and light vehicles. So are flamers. However, a bunch of douche nozzles that don't even play anymore qq'd their functionality into the game and now we have these troll bots running around.

lol...LORE plainly does consider them anti-mech weapons...since they're carried by elementals, battle armor, and light mechs specifically to destroy other mechs. HELL... when Battletech started, it was nothing but battlemechs in the game, and they were one of the first weapons available and did the same damage as a single SRM or a flamer... 2 pts of damage.

[Iron Heel]

InspectorG, on 22 March 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

A decent Dire pilot will sneeze on a Piranha and kill it at range. Most of that Piranhas skill was making it over to that Dire without getting one-shotted.

Lights are OP cuz most players cant aim.
Lights are OP cuz most players dont look at their MinMaps.
Lights are OP cuz most players dont help each other or Comm.
Lights are OP cuz most players dont notice they are being rear cored.


Thats why the Solo que is populated mainly by Lights.....

And scene..

I love the crying over mechs that'll never one shot anything being claimed as OP.

Much like stated above, meds, heavies and assaults with proper skill can one shot a piranha, while a piranha can't one shot it's own foot.

So tell me again now, which piranha was it that kicked you in the crotch , err crutch?

[Dee Eight]

Duncan Aravain, on 22 March 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

The GAU-8 of a Warthog is 30mm and has effective range of 4000 meters, max of 12000 meters. MGs from TT BT are .50 caliber to 12.7mm with an effective range of 90 meters, max of 270 meters. LMGs from MWO are ? with an effective range of 250 meters and a max of 500 meters. No, MWO LMGs are NOT 30 mm in size. Either nerf the range or the crit chances; as is, they are OP.

'effective' means the distance at which it can hit with reasonable accuracy and damage a target... but that effect depends heavily on what the target is. It doesn't much matter what range you hit the front glacis or even the front turret of a T-54 tank from with that 30mm GAU-8... its NOT penetrating unless its thru a periscope, gun sight, or thru a hatch. To kill a main battle tank you need to hit it thru the roof, the side, or the back. The thing battletech/mwo players never really consider when trying to apply real world to make believe world...is that the armor doesn't work the same. Battletech armor is always ablative. In the real world...its not.

[roekenny]

Iron Heel, on 22 March 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

And scene..

I love the crying over mechs that'll never one shot anything being claimed as OP.

Much like stated above, meds, heavies and assaults with proper skill can one shot a piranha, while a piranha can't one shot it's own foot.

So tell me again now, which piranha was it that kicked you in the crotch , err crutch?

Same reason lights what are successful are called op as how dare they be more effective as clearly bigger is better and I should be able to crush these puny things just looking at them. *psst* You can you just need to be more situational away and be able to hit something other than a barn door aka heavy's, but easier to whine than it is to up their game.

[Bluttrunken]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a Mist Lynx 1k match screenshot here once(before the MG variant was introduced). MLX is OP, right?

There's probably a 1k match for every mech ingame atm, that doesn't make them OP.

[Duncan Aravain]

roekenny, on 22 March 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

Don't use real world example in my game set in the future in a fantasy setting as it's like mixing oil and water. But if you are you do realize the MG's are not punching thru metal right they are good at wrecking with the internal components of a mech what has had their armor striped you start punching holes into hydraulics and electrical components with no protection and see if they can hold up?
And what your asking for is to gimp their one sticking point your asking effectively for them to be spl and we already had those and they got nerfed into the ground as they also could shred components due to low cool-down and multiple shots per alpha and they were even less effective back in it's hayday at doing so I know you will not be happy until they are nerfed into the ground. Maybe lights should start whine that they die instantly to high alpha builds as no fair that someone can just point and delete them?

I used the real life stats to disprove a LMG fan who stated that LMGs were like the GAU-8, they are not.
I used the table Top stats to show that the MWO stats are not like (or designed) like what the BT designers had in mind.
Of course, you are able to mind read what my intentions are and my intent to merely have them "nerfed into the ground".
My intent is to have them in line with their initial and intended BattleTech/Mechwarrior role, not some run and gun fps fan service OP weapon system. But,please, go ahead and continue your logical argument you have started............................

[roekenny]

Iron Heel, on 22 March 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

And scene..

I love the crying over mechs that'll never one shot anything being claimed as OP.

Much like stated above, meds, heavies and assaults with proper skill can one shot a piranha, while a piranha can't one shot it's own foot.

So tell me again now, which piranha was it that kicked you in the crotch , err crutch?

Same reason lights what are successful are called op as how dare they be more effective as clearly bigger is better and I should be able to crush these puny things just looking at them. *psst* You can you just need to be more situational away and be able to hit something other than a barn door aka heavy's, but easier to whine than it is to up their game.

Dee Eight, on 22 March 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

'effective' means the distance at which it can hit with reasonable accuracy and damage a target... but that effect depends heavily on what the target is. It doesn't much matter what range you hit the front glacis or even the front turret of a T-54 tank from with that 30mm GAU-8... its NOT penetrating unless its thru a periscope, gun sight, or thru a hatch. To kill a main battle tank you need to hit it thru the roof, the side, or the back. The thing battletech/mwo players never really consider when trying to apply real world to make believe world...is that the armor doesn't work the same. Battletech armor is always ablative. In the real world...its not.

That's not it armor has nothing to do with why mg's are "OP" as they farm open components OPEN!!!! meaning your armors gone. Non existent, kaput, blown off, missing no matter what you call it it's not there and just left with a covers and internal components what are not designed to have holes riddled thru them.

Edited by roekenny, 22 March 2018 - 10:41 AM.

[Iron Heel]

Bluttrunken, on 22 March 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure I've seen a Mist Lynx 1k match screenshot here once(before the MG variant was introduced). MLX is OP, right?

There's probably a 1k match for every mech ingame atm, that doesn't make them OP.

I'm no consistent 1k pilot and my 3x HMed, 2xERMed Mystic Lynx is kinda trolly, but I've had some really nice matches in it and it's by no means OP..

[Diablobo]

All I see is a perfect video to explain why putting only a couple of points on rear armor is a dumb idea.

[mogs01gt]

I'll stick to lore and fundamentals of Battletech. Lights shouldnt be effective in combat when heavier mechs are around.

[So You Say]

My main complaint are Piranha's are hard to kill with anything but high pinpoint damage weapons. I have seen them take three volley's of double Atm 12 and still not be cored anywhere. They spread damage across their arms and torso's by just moving. Their gate naturally moves their top side left and right. Unless you land an AC 20 or heavy gauss round it is very hard to kill them before they start humping your leg. I think their hit boxes or running gate need to be looked at.

[kuma8877]

Duncan Aravain, on 22 March 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

I used the real life stats to disprove a LMG fan who stated that LMGs were like the GAU-8, they are not.
I used the table Top stats to show that the MWO stats are not like (or designed) like what the BT designers had in mind.
Of course, you are able to mind read what my intentions are and my intent to merely have them "nerfed into the ground".
My intent is to have them in line with their initial and intended BattleTech/Mechwarrior role, not some run and gun fps fan service OP weapon system. But,please, go ahead and continue your logical argument you have started............................

I can't seem to find where it was said LMG's specifically? Specifics of game rules vs real world aside, in all iterations, Mech mounted machine guns are effective against other Mechs and not insignificantly either.

Whatever inconsistent fiction the game creators tried to use to justify their rule sets with (TT and VG alike), the ratio of general usefulness Mech mounted MG's (or other weapon systems) have against other Mechs points towards- whatever the necessary mass, density and speed is needed to damage the armor and eventually destroy another Mech is, is present in ALL iterations for Mech mounted MG's.

Whatever the caliber it's supposed to be to do that (for the fiction), is what it is.

[mogs01gt]

So You Say, on 22 March 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

My main complaint are Piranha's are hard to kill with anything but high pinpoint damage weapons. I have seen them take three volley's of double Atm 12 and still not be cored anywhere. They spread damage across their arms and torso's by just moving. Their gate naturally moves their top side left and right. Unless you land an AC 20 or heavy gauss round it is very hard to kill them before they start humping your leg. I think their hit boxes or running gate need to be looked at.

but if AC20s had a realistic projectile speed, then lights would never be played.

[kuma8877]

mogs01gt, on 22 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

I'll stick to lore and fundamentals of Battletech. Lights shouldnt be effective in combat when heavier mechs are around.

If most of our community were actually the pilots of the mechs in lore or in TT, then I'd take a wild guess that lights could be about as effective as they are now in MWO in the hands of a good light pilot....

[TWIAFU]

InspectorG, on 22 March 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

Thats why the Solo que is populated mainly by Lights.....

ikr

[Brain Cancer]

About right. PIR can put out horrendous levels of damage if given a distraction, but also die horrendously if someone can get a bead on them.

Nobody prioritized the PIR, so it naturally deleted everything in sight: unaware pilots, weakened targets, wide-open back shots. And that'll get you a pile of kills and a four-digit damage score, as it should.

On the other hand, seeing double-digit scores because the poor pilot cornered into an SRM boat isn't uncommon either. Big risk, big reward.

[TWIAFU]

mogs01gt, on 22 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

I'll stick to lore and fundamentals of Battletech. Lights shouldnt be effective in combat when heavier mechs are around.

Sure, under the premise, Lighter mechs should not be effective in combat when heavier mechs are around.

So, with that nugget, only the same weight class can be effective. Medium cannot be effective when an Assault/Heavy are around, same with Heavy. it cannot be effective with an Assault around. Wouldn't that mean that only Heavier mechs can only be effective with a lighter mech around? But the Lighter cannot be effective with the Heavier around?! So, mechs can only be effective against the same weight class or lower, not higher.

By chance, did you think this though?

[Brain Cancer]

Duncan Aravain, on 22 March 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

I used the real life stats to disprove a LMG fan who stated that LMGs were like the GAU-8, they are not.
I used the table Top stats to show that the MWO stats are not like (or designed) like what the BT designers had in mind.
Of course, you are able to mind read what my intentions are and my intent to merely have them "nerfed into the ground".
My intent is to have them in line with their initial and intended BattleTech/Mechwarrior role, not some run and gun fps fan service OP weapon system. But,please, go ahead and continue your logical argument you have started............................

Machineguns have been secondary weapon systems since the first Stinger and Locust were zipping around the field.

Heck, they didn't even have an anti-infantry bonus at first. The advantage was heat-free damage for the same weight as an SRM tube, but with less range.

Modern rules make them point-blank terrors even outside of MWO. Seeing a PIR go full kamikaze mode and unleashing a dozen 1d6 MG hits + it's lasers on some poor shmuck it's jumped from behind is probably going to kill the PIR, but take the target with it....assuming you don't just keep them on low ROF mode and gnaw someone's back out anyway, or crack off a few shots with 1-2 MGs at a time to make your alpha empty the ammo bins and preclude a superheated ammo explosion.

[roekenny]

TWIAFU, on 22 March 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

ikr

to be fair there are new heavies about, I even saw assaults dip to 5% one night but it's a great day to be a light atm so many potatoes with squishy side torsos