179 replies to this topic

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

[Guffrus]

They are op.

But surely that was obvious before they launched, wasnt it?

12 mg is it?

-fast
-small
-no heat
-difficult to disable weapons
-continuous damage with no over kill
-quite high dps considering it only stops when the ammo stops.
-high burst damage when attacking open armour / from behind.
-doesnt imediately explode when fired on.

-doesnt seem to have ammo problems but i maybe wrong on this point.

it does have poor visability, so theres that and with chest mounted weapons it presumably has to joust but its not enough to balance all those mgs.

Frankly when the mist lynx arrived with its 8 mg i thought that was a bit much but its easy to take the arms off them and they are no where near as fast so they cant just charge about the place doing whatever they want secure in the knowledge that they are faster than most mechs / fast enough that you have a good chance of being able to get out of any bad situation you get into.

If you want to keep all that damage it should probably explode when shown a candle.

This is the edit:
Probably the counter to piranhas is light mechs performing anti light duties, which is problem because now you are relying on match maker to give you a competant team playing light ally which is virtually non existant at the best of times.

I doubt very much that piranhas are newbie friendly and I am fully prepared to accept the arguement that they require a skilled pilot to get the best out of them, but i think what a skilled pilot can do with them might be too much.

What does the data say? Its really a question that is best answered by data. Human beings are not good at this sort of task.

Guffrus

Edited by Guffrus, 22 March 2018 - 02:35 PM.

[JadeTornado]

Most of a piranha pilots dying in 2-3 sec, when they are running in a straight line. It can't do much against armour without being shooted back. We also have a few nice streak-boats to counter them and this "enemy spotted" wallhack. So it's just a good piloting on a true skill-rewarding mech. I would say that Piranha isn't overpowered - the other lights are underpowered. And now it become a boogeyman, because of doing a light's job properly.
I remember the same disputes about Arctic Cheetah until the C-SPL nerf. rip cheetah btw.
In such a lack of efficient light chassis every nerf of the one will bring the another on very top. It can't lasts forever, so PGI sould think about changes.
lol...

Spoiler

[roekenny]

Guffrus, on 22 March 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

They are op.

But surely that was obvious before they launched, wasnt it?

12 mg is it?

-fast
-small
-no heat
-difficult to disable weapons
-continuous damage with no over kill
-quite high dps considering it only stops when the ammo stops.
-high burst damage when attacking open armour / from behind.
-doesnt imediately explode when fired on.

You will not win this fight vs lights as you keep whining x is op plz nerf and we just move to another weapon system what you say plz nerf that as we have had this cycle for years. The crux of the matter is if a light is able to flank you and are unaware and alone in the back you are going to get ***** hard end of. Be it SRM, mg, small lasers medium lasers anything in between a light will end you. The solution is easy but it involves you yes you!!!

Look at your map listen to the calls lights flanking don't get tunnel vision and stay with the team. I know it's hard to get that into some peoples skulls but it's time to learn if you want to wear the big boy pants and play heavies and assaults you have to do more than face forward and occasionally poke. Yes lights will still get you but not nearly as much because a light will always go for outlying targets of opportunity than a mech in the center mass or front because there will be 3 mechs at the very least able to end him by with a snap shot. And they will end him because he is a very easy kill if you know he's there. You all whine of they can kill me quickly if they are close. Yet fail to take into account most heavies alpha atm is 80+ and that can easily leg any light. You have one job if see a light hit it's leg and then curb stomp it. Lights know our mech and what they are capable of it's time the heavies and assaults did the same.

How do I know this? Easy because I am one of them lights and also I have on more than 1 occasion been literally 1 stray bullet away from death if a PIR-1 even looked in my direction as a clan light but I stay front and center in the middle of the pack all I need to do is poke when I see a nasty alpha pass me then hide again watching the rear. I have only been killed once by a PIR-1 in all that time unless getting stomped and then is usually reds front line walking over me not the lights picking me off. This is a serious case of get gud as far as I'm aware and I don't even use mg's as too squishy and impatient to get into a fight to be any good with them.

[Christophe Ivanov]

I have been on both sides of this issue. In once match, I was moving through the water on the Riverside City. I saw a fast mover on my radar screen, looked to the right, ID'd a Piranha running full tilt and swung my Dire Wolfs big torso and gave it a Alpha. Due to the distance, I didnt expect a good hit, but to my surprise, I sent him to Davy's Jones locker

On another match, saw the call for help for a one-on-one match just a wee bit away from everyone else. went to help in my Dire Wolf..OOPS! Around the corner came a fast Piranha who just legged another team mate and I got one shot in before it ran up and stuck to my chassis and fired off them insane HMGs. Now I was already up against a wall to protect my back side, so not much I can do as none of my weapons could point at this Lil Tumor. In less than 6 seconds, I was in a dead mech.
This Pilot was responsible for 7 or 8 kills done in this fashion.
While I was pissed off...I knew this Mech Pilot was taking full advantage of his mech under the circumstances.

On reflection, I WISH PGI would give us the capability to arm and fist swing, and kicking just so I have a decent chance to even the score.
On second thought, Imagine a match with NO weapons, just kicking and swing arms and fist.

Edited by Christophe Ivanov, 22 March 2018 - 03:22 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

SlaveLabor, on 22 March 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

Spoiler

Nothing says how much difference there is between a PIR that gets noticed and one that does not than the double-digit damage of one PIR-1 and the four-digit damage of the other.

[roekenny]

I just want someone to do do a montage of people one shooting lights set to 1812 overture so can post it every time people topics like this.

[Nightbird]

We really just need IS lights with 12 energy points or 12 ballistic points and such...

[Kaeb Odellas]

Brain Cancer, on 22 March 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

About right. PIR can put out horrendous levels of damage if given a distraction, but also die horrendously if someone can get a bead on them.

Nobody prioritized the PIR, so it naturally deleted everything in sight: unaware pilots, weakened targets, wide-open back shots. And that'll get you a pile of kills and a four-digit damage score, as it should.

On the other hand, seeing double-digit scores because the poor pilot cornered into an SRM boat isn't uncommon either. Big risk, big reward.

Is it right that a light mech should be a "kill this now" priority outside of conquest? The piranha's not something you can easily disarm like the Mist Lynx or Cheetah, and it's fast and squirrelly enough that it can avoid most damage that isn't a homing missile of some kind.

There's no mech in the game right now that puts me on edge like an enemy PIR-1 does. It's just so dangerous once you have any armor breaches anywhere, and with its speed and size, getting into position to exploit armor breaches is not at all hard. Not since the 12 SPL Nova have I felt so absolutely dirty piloting a mech.

It's not even that risky to pilot if you know what you're doing. Just hang out in the back and avoid getting shot at for the first 5 minutes, back-cap or do energy runs where applicable, and clean up once your teammates have punched enough holes in armor for you. If you've got another butt-muncher on your team, you can team up, flank wide, and rip apart a straggler in the rear, and run off before they have a chance to react. They don't even need to get the kill, either. Equipment destruction can be devastating enough on its own.

[Brain Cancer]

Kaeb Odellas, on 22 March 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Is it right that a light mech should be a "kill this now" priority outside of conquest? The piranha's not something you can easily disarm like the Mist Lynx or Cheetah, and it's fast and squirrelly enough that it can avoid most damage that isn't a homing missile of some kind.

Yes, actually. To the point where if it's not a derp build, wreck the lights and bully them hard. And yes, that's because the longer a game goes, the more dangerous a smart light becomes- minimize exposure and wait for the inevitable armor openings to happen and the chances of getting caught in a crossfire decline. Then, it's time to zip out, BRRRRT and clean house.

Killing a light early often means huge amounts of damage saved later on, and one good aiming ballistics or missile boat can ruin a PIR in two salvos. Heck, I make them a priority if one's dumb enough to run around the team early or my team's lights are playing interceptor and have one locked into a shooting match. Because once your enemy no longer has their light screen, you're at an advantage in the endgame.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Am I the only one who noticed that the arty at 4:32 in, dropped perfectly in the narrow corridor on 4 to 6 mechs probably did 300+ damage at the least, depending on skill nodes?

The mech did not do 1000 damage with the machine guns alone, not even close.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 22 March 2018 - 04:39 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

LT. HARDCASE, on 22 March 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

Am I the only one who noticed that the arty at 4:32 in, dropped perfectly in the narrow corridor on 4 to 6 mechs probably did 300+ damage at the least, depending on skill nodes?

The mech did not do 1000 damage with the machine guns alone, not even close.

you know... I did not even remember dropping the arty but I see what you mean now. Once again... all people see is the end number with absolutely no way of knowing how that number came to be, but still come to the forums and scream NERF!!.

Part of the reason I created this thread as well as posted the video. I tire of people saying X mech scored this much damage and needs to be nerfed because my mech is suppose to be bigger and better than yours.

If some folks had their way the Light would be removed from the game. THe fact of the matter is I like the knife fighting style the piranha and locust allow. I used to use a Jenner D for that until the damn rescale made it the size of a tank and handle like one.

Continue on.......

[Y E O N N E]

Nightbird, on 22 March 2018 - 04:04 PM, said:

We really just need IS lights with 12 energy points or 12 ballistic points and such...

Hello, you rang?

[Hayato Mori]

Lethe Wyvern, on 21 March 2018 - 10:07 PM, said:

p.s. Piranha is not OP, but stacking crazy amount of regular MG give that insane crit. Nerf crit chance and buff damage a bit.

Actually MGs do a full 1 dps per gun, in the case of the Pir, 12 dps with no heat for as long as the pilot is interested in humping a leg while holding down LMB. If more than about 10 seconds are spent firing, MG boating is roughly 200% more effective(per ton invested) in applying damage than the pre nerf cSPL. Comparing tonnage required to rate damage is inflicted with any current brawl weapon in the game becomes even more ridiculous, even when you only require for a marginal amount of heat dissipation in your comparison.

MWO damage is balanced roughly around a 4 sec CD, with outliers being adjusted up or down, usually based on weight. Obviously no one would use an AC/5 if it had a 4 sec CD, etc. MWO MGs do 4 damage every 4 sec, so PGI just outright doubled the lore value in their implementation despite their negligible weight.

OP is a meaningless word, PGI is a business, and quite clearly they have a player base that is willing to pay for a mech that wildly outperforms any other light. Look at the leaderboard, people have been putting up great numbers with lights for the last 20 odd months. Until the Pir, they just had to work harder for it; careful positioning, much much lower dps, heat management, etc. This isn't the first game to marry balance to the cash shop, and Piranha sales were driven by offering a bigger reward(damage and kills) for less effort(simple, high damage mechanics).

It's easy math. Lights have always done well when pushing with the team, either wolfpack or full brawl push. Give a new light double the baseline damage, give it huge crit as a bonus, and of course it is going to end up being way more effective. MWO is no different than any elf MMO where devs make the class that comes with the new expansion hit 50% harder as a way to sell more boxes.

[InspectorG]

mogs01gt, on 22 March 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

I'll stick to lore and fundamentals of Battletech. Lights shouldnt be effective in combat when heavier mechs are around.

Dunno, mang. Ill take a Locust over an Atlas any day for a recon or extraction objective...

[InspectorG]

Kaeb Odellas, on 22 March 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Is it right that a light mech should be a "kill this now" priority outside of conquest? The piranha's not something you can easily disarm like the Mist Lynx or Cheetah, and it's fast and squirrelly enough that it can avoid most damage that isn't a homing missile of some kind.

https://mwomercs.com.../page__st__4780

Go back in the thread prior to Quirks and look at the most valuable piece of advice: Dont get hit. At all.

Seriously, buy a 25 ton mech. Drop in Solo. See how easy it is to kill people.

Then drop in Group. See what happens.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Darian DelFord, on 22 March 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

you know... I did not even remember dropping the arty but I see what you mean now. Once again... all people see is the end number with absolutely no way of knowing how that number came to be, but still come to the forums and scream NERF!!.

Part of the reason I created this thread as well as posted the video. I tire of people saying X mech scored this much damage and needs to be nerfed because my mech is suppose to be bigger and better than yours.

If some folks had their way the Light would be removed from the game. THe fact of the matter is I like the knife fighting style the piranha and locust allow. I used to use a Jenner D for that until the damn rescale made it the size of a tank and handle like one.

Continue on.......

It's not just light-haters that think the Piranha is OP. I have over 1.1 million XP sitting idle on my JR7-F. My W:L and K:D on the PIR-1 are more than double my total average. But I'm not going to sit here and try to defend my inflated Piranha scores as merely "good piloting", because I know it's OP.

Brain Cancer, on 22 March 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

Yes, actually. To the point where if it's not a derp build, wreck the lights and bully them hard. And yes, that's because the longer a game goes, the more dangerous a smart light becomes- minimize exposure and wait for the inevitable armor openings to happen and the chances of getting caught in a crossfire decline. Then, it's time to zip out, BRRRRT and clean house.

Killing a light early often means huge amounts of damage saved later on, and one good aiming ballistics or missile boat can ruin a PIR in two salvos. Heck, I make them a priority if one's dumb enough to run around the team early or my team's lights are playing interceptor and have one locked into a shooting match. Because once your enemy no longer has their light screen, you're at an advantage in the endgame.

Sure, I'll direct my team to chase down a light if it overextends and there are no immediate threats. I'll take a shot at one if it presents itself as an easy target. But no other light triggers that butt-pucker reaction out of me and has me yelling "KILL THAT THING NOW" on comms like the PIR-1.

Well, I guess MG Mist Lynxes and Cheetahs are also pretty dangerous, but again, much easier to deal with when you're not running streaks.

[arcana75]

kuma8877, on 22 March 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

That was in a Stormcrow though.

You missed my point entirely.

[InspectorG]

LIGHTS(Piranha) IS OP CHALLENGE:

Use a Piranha in Group for a few days.
Post the OP results here in this thread. Pics of 1000+ damages plz.

thx.

For Science and stuff.

[Y E O N N E]

Kaeb Odellas, on 22 March 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

It's not just light-haters that think the Piranha is OP. I have over 1.1 million XP sitting idle on my JR7-F. My W:L and K:D on the PIR-1 are more than double my total average. But I'm not going to sit here and try to defend my inflated Piranha scores as merely "good piloting", because I know it's OP.

To wit, it isn't just the Brown Sea furrowing its collective brow over the strength of the PIR-1. Even players from units like EmP and D5 are judging the PIR to be a bit too powerful. The MLX and ACH are bigger and slower and easier to disarm, and with fewer MGs; they can't flank like the PIR can and that makes all the difference.

Personally, I haven't formed an opinion yet. I'm more annoyed at the crits for MGs just evaporating weapons and equipment instantly more than I am the damage output. It's not fun being stripped like that.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 22 March 2018 - 06:51 PM.