40 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

DAYLEET, on 29 March 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

Make Dom circle completely random. That would make it interesting and fun.

I agree, no really i do. They should also apply this to the other modes.

[kapusta11]

• Move the circle to F7 high ground
  
• Teams A and B start at C6 and J6 respectively
  
• Done

[PocketYoda]

Or better still remove the ******* horrible mode all together

[Scyther]

Looks like most of the folks saying this is unbalanced, Team 2 pushes F7 to win, are tier 1. My experience at tier 3 is quite different.

Team 1 usually gets a runner into the circle first, typically in the little S-shaped path in G7 where they have cover (or the two buildings in the circle at F7). Team 2 (where I seem to always start) gets a runner into the circle shortly after (about 3-7 seconds), in the path along F6/G6 border, where they can be spotted and shot at (from cover) from mechs in the buldings at F7. Also, since there is no LRM cover there, and they are spotted, they get LRMed as well.

Team 1 takes position in the buildings at F7 (sometimes G7 and G6) and shoots down into the circle from there (probably why so many still do it at tier 1), while Team 2 mechs grind to a halt on the two hilltops in F6 and try to snipe/poke from there.

Then team 2 loses its one or two mechs in the gully in F6, and either the rest of the team is too chicken to move in and the circle is lost, or they advance in ones and twos across the firing line of Team 1 mechs (who have cover and shooting positions into the whole circle and its approaches). Soon Team 2 is down 3 or 4 mechs and it's all over but the dyin'.

Team 1 benefits from better cover, LOS and high ground positions at this lower tier, particularly since Team 2 has to advance with less cover, and LRMs and long-range weapons seem to be more prevalent than brawling/mid-range builds.

This is the gameplay in 3 out of 4 matches. Because it is only tier 3, in some matches Team 1 loses because they don't even seem to know where the circle is and don't cover it, or because (as is the case for tier 1), someone who knows the map talks team 2 into pushing F7 aggressively, and they aren't hindered by too many slow mechs.

At this lower tier I can't see any result of that circle move->F7 except to shift Team 1 to a 'win 9 out of 10' position.
It could be an odd map in that it is unbalanced to one side at lower tiers, and unbalanced to the other at higher tier.

[Vidarion]

This is definitely a Tier-related issue and not a map issue. In the lower Tiers, Team 1 typically wins because Team 2 doesn't push from F6 -> F7. In Tier 3, this was still the case.

For whatever reason, in Tier 2 this switches and Team 2 is usually the more aggressive team and pushes F6->F7 much more effectively than in lower Tiers. Maybe Team 1 suffers from habit (being able to whittle down a non-aggressive Team 2 a bit and then charging) and Team 2 simply has 'learned the lesson'. I'm not sure, but every match in Grim Dom since getting into Tier 2 has resulted in a rout when Team 1 doesn't push into F6. When Team 1 hangs back, they get stomped. When Team 1 does push, it becomes a much more interesting fight. It doesn't guarantee a win for Team 1, but it's much more likely.

If any adjustment to the Dom circle gets made, I would suggest pushing it away from both of those high grounds and onto the space between the gas tanks and the buildings in G6. Then just switch the drop point for Team 2's Alpha and Charlie lances to keep like-weight mechs on both teams a similar distance from the Dom point.

[Mystere]

Is MWO supposed to be a game simulating future warfare or an arena eSport?

I am asking because the answers for both are entirely different. <shrugs>

[Rick T Dangerous]

Scout Derek, on 29 March 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

Put the beacon on the corner of H5/I4 and get interesting matches instead of the destroyer of fun that grim dom tends to be.

[Ghogiel]

Mystere, on 30 March 2018 - 05:49 AM, said:

Is MWO supposed to be a game simulating future warfare or an arena eSport?

I am asking because the answers for both are entirely different. <shrugs>

MWO is not a sim. It's an arena shooter.

Edited by Ghogiel, 30 March 2018 - 06:22 AM.

[Humpday]

Been broken forever.
Why they don't spawn the circle in a preset/random places along with equa-distance drop points is beyond me.

It blows being on the team1 side, as you cannot force your team to move up and push the other team back up the opposite side(which results in a win). No, they instead try to hang back in cover(f8) 90% of the time letting the other team ether take the top or rotate into g7.

Its a major issue with PGI and the methodology of maintaining the game.
Simple fixes the improve user experience, they seemingly cannot do...

Like...
- drawing a line between baseline quirks, and those quirks given by the skill tree, simple, logical right? Nope, they can't do it.
- sorting the mechlab by clan IS, or by tonnage....for, I dunno, new players who don't know wtf the difference is?
- telling you the min range of all weapons with min range...and not just some obscure line graph
- CEO/President babbling about some nonsense over podcast...while seemingly intoxicated?

...simple things...

I joined in Feb2017 I used to wonder why everyone is always salty and always complaining, a year later...I understand.

[PocketYoda]

Randomize the pee stain.

[Jack Booted Thug]

MadBadger, on 30 March 2018 - 04:41 AM, said:

Looks like most of the folks saying this is unbalanced, Team 2 pushes F7 to win, are tier 1. My experience at tier 3 is quite different.
At this lower tier I can't see any result of that circle move->F7 except to shift Team 1 to a 'win 9 out of 10' position.
It could be an odd map in that it is unbalanced to one side at lower tiers, and unbalanced to the other at higher tier.

Vidarion, on 30 March 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

This is definitely a Tier-related issue and not a map issue. In the lower Tiers, Team 1 typically wins because Team 2 doesn't push from F6 -> F7. In Tier 3, this was still the case.

For whatever reason, in Tier 2 this switches and Team 2 is usually the more aggressive team and pushes F6->F7 much more effectively than in lower Tiers.

Interesting observations, I would not have thought there would be a difference in results. It would be nice if PGI could share map stats with us - but that would probably result in much criticism and more work for them.

[Requiemking]

Both the "Grim" Maps really suck. Grim Plexus is a Trader's wet dream, and Grim Portico is a complete death trap for the attackers, especially if the defenders are running brawlers.

[Exilyth]

Humpday, on 30 March 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

Why they don't spawn the circle in a preset/random places along with equa-distance drop points is beyond me.

This. This so much. It would make the whole game mode much less stale.

It's also nearly trivial - on map creation:

for each point on the map:
	compute distances dA, dB to nearest spawnpoint of teamA, teamB
	if( |dA - dB| < some delta):
		add point to list
Iterate over list:
	remove points which do not have enough space for the radar dish

On starting the map:

pick a random point from the list
spawn/move radar dish & capture point trigger zone in/to that point

If there are positions which still favour one team or the other too much, they can be removed later (or the terrain adjusted)

Edited by Exilyth, 30 March 2018 - 09:44 AM.

[Fleeb the Mad]

They could also put the circle in a general area that's not in the center of the map.

Every new MWO map has a huge amount of terrain that's not used. The dom circle and the spawns don't have to always be symmetric about the middle. Particularly on maps that have an obvious central no man's land like Frozen, Grim, River City and Caustic.

How much better would a domination match on Frozen be if they used the Incursion spawns and put the dom point in the city to the left or right?

[Mokou]

Just make cap-circle bigger, so both teams can cap circle in cover.

Edited by Mokou, 07 April 2018 - 02:03 AM.

[roekenny]

Or team 1 could just push G6 and fire across to F7 as get more cover and a better line of sight against any aggressive push. If Team 2 camps at F5-6 you can rotate either way. I hate F7 grid as it draws idiots to to like fly to honey as even on skirmish when team 2's doing the G line they all run to that location and not G7 what has the same amount of cover AND CAN SHOOT DOWN AT THEM!!!!!

[HGAK47]

DAYLEET, on 29 March 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

Make Dom circle completely random. That would make it interesting and fun.

Yea why cant we have it randomised a little bit, it could allow other areas of maps to shine and ok if you get one bad "spawn" at least you will most likely get something different the next time.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Okay, so news flash: On Grim Plexus domination the single safest way to play is for the entire team to immediately push the circle and get onto the far side slope. For team 1 this means the F6 hill; for team 2 this means the F7 hill (with the METAL BAWKSES).

Once you're there enemy 'mechs have to fully skyline on the edge of the hill to shoot at your team, which means getting blasted apart. Usually they'll still mostly be hiding at the far side of their hill (in QP pug matches), so your team can push up to the edge of the hill and blast away while keeping them out of the circle. This forces the enemy team to make a hasty push through open ground and a good crossfire.

It doesn't always work. But in QP, if you manage to get a team willing to commit to it, it's about as close to a free win as you get.

The circle's fine where it is, you just have to recognize that the position of it is incredibly punishing for the usual cowardly 800m sniping "playstyle" that a lot of people like to engage in.

[Bombast]

Alexander of Macedon, on 07 April 2018 - 04:04 AM, said:

Okay, so news flash: On Grim Plexus domination the single safest way to play is for the entire team to immediately push the circle and get onto the far side slope. For team 1 this means the F6 hill; for team 2 this means the F7 hill (with the METAL BAWKSES).

Once you're there enemy 'mechs have to fully skyline on the edge of the hill to shoot at your team, which means getting blasted apart. Usually they'll still mostly be hiding at the far side of their hill (in QP pug matches), so your team can push up to the edge of the hill and blast away while keeping them out of the circle. This forces the enemy team to make a hasty push through open ground and a good crossfire.

It doesn't always work. But in QP, if you manage to get a team willing to commit to it, it's about as close to a free win as you get.

The circle's fine where it is, you just have to recognize that the position of it is incredibly punishing for the usual cowardly 800m sniping "playstyle" that a lot of people like to engage in.

The problem is the F7 push is much easier, and much more likely. With even levels of aggression on both sides, one side will win 90% of the time.

Pretty much any time you see the F7 side win by pushing the circle, it's because the opposing side threw by hanging back. If that side puts up even a small fight, it usually wins.

[TheArisen]

Honestly theres a few maps that need better circle placement.