Jump to content

Is Advantages


139 replies to this topic

#1 mrmike5234

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 29 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:39 AM

I can honestly say I'm getting tired of the IS tonnage, weapon(dual heavy gauss for instance)structure and armor(quirks and stealth) advantages.

Waiting twenty minutes for a FW match and see twelve Anny's push you out of the circle in domination is not my idea of fun.


Or just a few Anny's and assorted assaults waltz in and destroy you, your gens and omega in just a few minutes.


On incursion twelve Assassins rush the base, usually getting it on the first try. Or like A41 and 31HR, just bring four waves of assassins and success is guaranteed. No practice, no talent required.


Take two evenly matched teams and IS has the definite advantage.


I know PGI won't change anything as there is a reason things are the way they are, its just I can't figure it out.


I really like FW, but less as of late.


I guess all that whining and crying IS has done for years has finally paid off.


Thank you for your time.


mrmike5234


Edited by mrmike5234, 11 April 2018 - 10:41 AM.


#2 CFC Conky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 788 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:42 AM

Fish on! Posted Image

#3 Alexander of Macedon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 984 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:43 AM

Quote

IS


Quote

Tonnage advantage


IS can lose their tonnage advantage in FP as soon as clan 'mechs lose their exclusivity on half-slot FF+ES, two-slot XL, XL that can survive a ST loss, two-slot DHS, and decreased tonnage+slot requirements on all weapons.

IS gets more tonnage in large part because their tonnage is generally less efficiently used.

#4 Lily from animove

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 13,886 posts
  • LocationOn a dropship to Terra

Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:45 AM

View PostAlexander of Macedon, on 11 April 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:



IS gets more tonnage in large part because their tonnage is generally less efficiently used.


if you build your mech crap yes it is.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 April 2018 - 10:46 AM.


#5 Hazeclaw

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,494 posts
  • LocationTrue North Strong and Free

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:07 AM

View Postmrmike5234, on 11 April 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

I can honestly say I'm getting tired of the IS tonnage, weapon(dual heavy gauss for instance)structure and armor(quirks and stealth) advantages.

Waiting twenty minutes for a FW match and see twelve Anny's push you out of the circle in domination is not my idea of fun.



Or just a few Anny's and assorted assaults waltz in and destroy you, your gens and omega in just a few minutes.



On incursion twelve Assassins rush the base, usually getting it on the first try. Or like A41 and 31HR, just bring four waves of assassins and success is guaranteed. No practice, no talent required.



Take two evenly matched teams and IS has the definite advantage.



I know PGI won't change anything as there is a reason things are the way they are, its just I can't figure it out.



I really like FW, but less as of late.



I guess all that whining and crying IS has done for years has finally paid off.



Thank you for your time.



mrmike5234





cmon mike, most of those points relate more to one side being more organized than the other not the IS/Clan FP balance (which is surprisingly good right now imo)

- I can't remember the last time I waited for 20 minutes for a FP match, I'd probably give up and do something else after 10. If one team drops 12 of the same assault against an average poorly communicating group the result is the same, you can argue dropping 12 MK2s will have a similar effect as 12 annis in an average drop

- Just like a team dropping 12 linebackers (granted slight advantage IS due to best mech for this bs being 20kph faster), but the problem with this is the game mode, incursion needs to disappear from FP, it was obviously not designed with pre selectible decks/respawns in mind, and just doesn't work

- Taking 2 evenly matched teams, the advantage will be Clan or IS depending on the map/game mode, I can definitely think of some map/mode combinations that currently favor IS and others that favor clan

- The whining leading to changes is very much a thing, and I hope we can keep the whining levels fairly equal from both sides these days so as to not ruin the asymmetrical balance that is in place right now

Overall I'd say today in FP winning as clan requires more personal pilot skill and winning as IS requires more team cohesion, groups that have both pilot skill and team cohesion do really well whether they play clan or IS. Reasons being: kiting is more difficult than pushing, returning effective fire while retreating (which is what clan mechs are best at on average) requires significantly more player skill than pushing forward (which is what IS mechs are best at on average). On the flip side trading/kiting requires less team cohesion to be effective than having 12 mechs push together in unison, which IS has to do. My points relate only to average FP matches of fairly even opponents, and there are certainly outlier mechs that make certain specific engagement types balance different (such as BLRs for IS and LBKs for clan). Of course if you have a well coordinated team of high end pilots you can basically do w/e you want against a disorganized low skill group and win every time despite the respective strengths and weaknesses of IS/Clan.

#6 UnKnownPlayer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fury
  • Fury
  • 266 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:16 AM

LOLOLOLOL

tonnage advantage but assassin 160 ton deck wins?

Also, we havent done that except for conquest for about 6 months because it got too easy.

i feel like it's time you came over to IS and joined in the fun over here tbh, maybe the salt would flow less?


Also, Hazeclaw makes good points, and i really hate having to say that :P

#7 MadBadger

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts
  • LocationOntario, Canada

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:19 AM

I... guess the major weight, crit space, range, XL survivability, mech and mount design advantages that Clan enjoyed for years has finally almost been balanced. And now clanners are finding that all those years they were saying "it's our leet skills and teamwork beating you, not our tech advantage" was really a crock.

It comes as a shock, I know. Hopefully you will somehow manage to soldier on.

#8 Racerxintegra2k

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The God
  • The God
  • 780 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:43 AM

I'm still over here wondering when the civil war is .... why cant we just have 2 buckets Clan vs Clan IS vs IS .. balance solved.

#9 InspectorG

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Boombox
  • The Boombox
  • 4,455 posts
  • LocationCleveland, Ohio

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:47 AM

IN THE BROWN SEA, EVERYTHING IS OP...

#10 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 4,800 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:50 AM

Its as if people want to nerf clan at *everything* because they have XL engines that don't die when you lose one side torso. IS durability quirks are what offset XL advantage, yet IS also gets a tonnage advantage on top of that, then they also have weapon quirks.

IS scouting is obvious easy mode against clan brawlers, IS invasion just consists of making a deck of mechs so tanky that your enemy simply overheats before they can kill you. People get worried about those Clan 78 damage laser alphas, but just use a Dragon and you can deadside those alphas with ease and don't even need to take a full alpha ever since you can use either 3 LPL or 2 HPPC and out trade them. So IS has a tonnage advantage but a 60 ton Dragon beats a 65 ton Hellbringer.

Many powerful IS mechs really aren't talked about much since people don't consider durability and durations much when it comes to trading shots, they just see alpha damage. But if you're running PPFLD you pretty much only have to worry about a quarter of a clan alpha at most and then you can help negate damage with deadsiding.


I guess just play to your faction's advantages when you're on one. When I'm on IS I use the tankiest mechs available with either PPFLD or very short duration lasers and on Clans I use high alpha damage. So when I'm on IS I'm very durable and precise but somewhat lacking in burst damage while on Clans I have plenty of burst damage to use against people who don't twist much, but it quickly drops off against more aware opponents.

#11 JediPanther

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 3,142 posts
  • LocationLost in my C1

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:26 PM

In fw you might think IS has all those advantages but in qp clans rule.

#12 Hazeclaw

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,494 posts
  • LocationTrue North Strong and Free

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:37 PM

View PostJediPanther, on 11 April 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

In fw you might think IS has all those advantages but in qp clans rule.


not sure that's 100% true anymore, but even then, the reason clan mechs are preferable in qp is because you never know what map/mode you're going to end up with. IS has excellent specialized mechs in the shorter and longer ranges, but it is way riskier to take them in qp, hence people prefer the mid range generalist clan setups that kind of work in all situations. I can guarantee you'd see a lot more IS mechs used in qp if you got to select your loadout after you know the map/mode

View PostUnKnownPlayer, on 11 April 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

Also, Hazeclaw makes good points, and i really hate having to say that Posted Image


don't be a hater Posted Image

#13 Eisenhorne

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,111 posts
  • LocationUpstate NY

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:46 PM

IS has a definitely close range advantage. Clans have a minor midrange advantage. It's fairly even long range. Buff clan SRM's so they scatter less, and then we'll see where the balance is.

#14 Prototelis

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 3,091 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:53 PM

FWIW;

I've seen this strat. We stayed at range outside of the circle and poked them all to death.

The reinforcement waves were a super big pain in the *** once we got into the circle and the enemy team still won, but I digress.

#15 UnKnownPlayer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fury
  • Fury
  • 266 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:56 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 11 April 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

IS has a definitely close range advantage. Clans have a minor midrange advantage. It's fairly even long range. Buff clan SRM's so they scatter less, and then we'll see where the balance is.


OMG no, the clan launchers are HALF the weight of IS, if there is one thing that does NOT need buffing it is clan missile systems.

Edited by UnKnownPlayer, 11 April 2018 - 12:57 PM.


#16 Nema Nabojiv

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,782 posts
  • LocationUA

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:08 PM

View PostUnKnownPlayer, on 11 April 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:


OMG no, the clan launchers are HALF the weight of IS, if there is one thing that does NOT need buffing it is clan missile systems.

you clearly havent uesed clan missiles then. The only good ones are atms and streaks at the moment. Lurms are lurms and SRMs fire clouds of missiles useless beyond 150 meters.

Actually, yes, clan SRMs need serious spread buff, especially since they are the only not lock on option. And also clan mrms.

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 11 April 2018 - 01:16 PM.


#17 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 4,800 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:08 PM

View PostUnKnownPlayer, on 11 April 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:


OMG no, the clan launchers are HALF the weight of IS, if there is one thing that does NOT need buffing it is clan missile systems.


Half weight launchers doesn't mean much when they're trash. IS ASRM6 is 4 tons, Clan one is 2.5 tons, IS ASRM6 has more damage and tighter spread, so you end up with about the same damage per ton on the spot you aimed at. Which would seem fine and balanced at first, but then this means that to kill the same target the Clan launcher must fire more times which means it takes longer to kill with the CSRM and it generates more heat to do this, so bringing the CSRM6 means that you save 1.5 tons per launcher at the cost of losing much more armor surviving enemy DPS until you can reload enough times to kill them and having to waste that 1.5 tons you "saved" on more heatsinks and ammo.

They could use some help.

#18 Lily from animove

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 13,886 posts
  • LocationOn a dropship to Terra

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:10 PM

View PostChampion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 11 April 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:


Half weight launchers doesn't mean much when they're trash. IS ASRM6 is 4 tons, Clan one is 2.5 tons, IS ASRM6 has more damage and tighter spread, so you end up with about the same damage per ton on the spot you aimed at. Which would seem fine and balanced at first, but then this means that to kill the same target the Clan launcher must fire more times which means it takes longer to kill with the CSRM and it generates more heat to do this, so bringing the CSRM6 means that you save 1.5 tons per launcher at the cost of losing much more armor surviving enemy DPS until you can reload enough times to kill them and having to waste that 1.5 tons you "saved" on more heatsinks and ammo.

They could use some help.


if you would know how some people aim, they need to spread that much to even still hit something xD

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 April 2018 - 01:11 PM.


#19 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 4,800 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:11 PM

View PostLily from animove, on 11 April 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:


if you would know how some people aim, they need to spread tht much to even still hit something xD


Giving me flashbacks of all those people saying LBX is best against lights because you get chip damage on them when you miss.

#20 process

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,658 posts

Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:18 PM

IS/Clan balance theoretically happens at a 1v1 level, as in a 60 ton IS mech should be on par with a 60 on Clan mech. Frankly, no amount of balance will save you from a well-coordinated 12 Annihilator or 12 Assassin stomp, nor should it. In FW, teamwork is OP.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users