189 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

GenghisJr, on 23 April 2018 - 08:28 PM, said:

Seems to be an SRM fest but ive only played a few games in division 6. Very much a brawl experience but if there are larger maps my opinion may change.

WTF do you think Solaris is? Its a 1v1 Brawl, its not ******* a snipe-fest. Why play this game if you do understand core aspects of it?

Edited by mogs01gt, 24 April 2018 - 05:34 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Darian DelFord, on 23 April 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

I have intentionally not replied to this thread to see what others think and feel. I have also spent more and more time dissecting Solaris 7.

With that being said in my own humble opinion I call it a failure..... correction.... a complete and utter failure. There are many reasons I say this and I will list only a few of the major ones.
...

Oddly, I agree with just about everything you stated here. And yet, I can’t help but see that for those playing it, most that I have encountered are still really loving it. So maybe...a minimally viable success?


Seriously though, only PGI can tell if it is a success or not and then only after a bit of time has passed. Their subjective view here is all that really counts; and if they define success as it having sold a lot of “solaris 7” mech packs, and for all we know that may very well be their only standard (waves to MW5 on the horizon) then perhaps it is an off the charts success for PGI. On the other hand, if it is more along the lines of what they have publicly hinted at, namely an attempt to reinvigorate interest in MWO as a whole with a focus on Solaris style play, then yeah, it sure looks like a failure thus far. But even by that standard, it is impossible to make such a call this soon.

We have to give it time.

Time to see how they screw with overall balance in the 12v12 modes vs Solaris.
Time to see how they manipulate divisional make-up, and if they really hold to the 3 month seasonal schedule.
Time to see if Solaris becomes just an occasional indulgence or the main draw for players, how many play it at all, and how their play affects the other modes of the game. Etc.
We just don’t know, and can’t know any of this yet. Worse, is that even this data collection is going to get impacted by Battletech’s launch, so it is likely going to take even longer for PGI and us to get a real feel for how Solaris has impacted the game.

Keep in mind too that the largest % of the playing population to ever play CW at a given time was reported by Russ to have been around 17% and nominally 11% (I’ve seen others claim that it peaked to something like nearly 30% but I never saw that number reported from a dev), and they kept putting effort into that mode for a good two and a half years before apparently deciding it was no longer a priority. If it took that long for them to internalize CW’s performance as a mode, I suspect Solaris is going to need a hell of a lot longer than a few weeks or even months to know if it is truly a “succcess” from thier point of view.

[Mainhunter]

mogs01gt, on 24 April 2018 - 05:34 AM, said:

WTF do you think Solaris is? Its a 1v1 Brawl, its not ******* a snipe-fest. Why play this game if you do understand core aspects of it?

The Steiner map you can survive as ranged Mech vs. some brawler quiet well. I don't get it, why they made 4/5 maps pure brawler maps. It just kills the diversity of possible usable mechs. You only have to choose a brawler, vote off Steiner and your set. People will adapt to it and you will soon see only 2-3 builds per Div.

Diversity is the key to success, works in QB, why is it not possible in Solaris?

[CK16]

Mainhunter, on 24 April 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

The Steiner map you can survive as ranged Mech vs. some brawler quiet well. I don't get it, why they made 4/5 maps pure brawler maps. It just kills the diversity of possible usable mechs. You only have to choose a brawler, vote off Steiner and your set. People will adapt to it and you will soon see only 2-3 builds per Div.

Diversity is the key to success, works in QB, why is it not possible in Solaris?

Tundra is very range friendly as well so that's 2 of 5 viable for range. Jungle is some what friendly if you position right. The only two very brawl focused maps are Factory and Caves sooo imo it's a draw.

[Mainhunter]

CK16, on 24 April 2018 - 06:06 AM, said:

Tundra is very range friendly as well so that's 2 of 5 viable for range. Jungle is some what friendly if you position right. The only two very brawl focused maps are Factory and Caves sooo imo it's a draw.

They are tiny maps. Jungle has lots of trees and other obstacles who doesn't let you aim at "distance". You can hardly get more than 2 shots out till any kind of short ranged mech can open fire at you. And Boreal, from hill to hill it's what, 600m distance? If you use the blocks as cover you're in two steps at your foe. I hardly would call it a sniper map. make it as big as Steiner, then we can talk again.

[CK16]

Mainhunter, on 24 April 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

They are tiny maps. Jungle has lots of trees and other obstacles who doesn't let you aim at "distance". You can hardly get more than 2 shots out till any kind of short ranged mech can open fire at you. And Boreal, from hill to hill it's what, 600m distance? If you use the blocks as cover you're in two steps at your foe. I hardly would call it a sniper map. make it as big as Steiner, then we can talk again.

You can get on top of your bunker and from there totally clear fire lines across the entirety of the map.

[mogs01gt]

Mainhunter, on 24 April 2018 - 06:01 AM, said:

The Steiner map you can survive as ranged Mech vs. some brawler quiet well. I don't get it, why they made 4/5 maps pure brawler maps. It just kills the diversity of possible usable mechs. You only have to choose a brawler, vote off Steiner and your set. People will adapt to it and you will soon see only 2-3 builds per Div.
Diversity is the key to success, works in QB, why is it not possible in Solaris?

Diversity? I mean like QP, how brawlers and close quarter mechs,other than lights) are non-existent? Sounds like you are trying to turn Solaris into 1v1 qp.

Edited by mogs01gt, 24 April 2018 - 06:30 AM.

[Mainhunter]

CK16, on 24 April 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

You can get on top of your bunker and from there totally clear fire lines across the entirety of the map.

Without JJ?

[Mainhunter]

mogs01gt, on 24 April 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

Diversity? I mean like QP, how brawlers and close quarter mechs,other than lights) are non-existent? Sounds like you are trying to turn Solaris into 1v1 qp.

That's not true. QP is far more diverse, you have LRM, ATM, far more lasers and other weapons in use. I run frequently pure streak boats, just for the giggle, try that in Solaris.

[Bishop Six]

Bud Crue, on 24 April 2018 - 05:51 AM, said:

Keep in mind too that the largest % of the playing population to ever play CW at a given time was reported by Russ to have been around 17% and nominally 11% (I’ve seen others claim that it peaked to something like nearly 30% but I never saw that number reported from a dev), and they kept putting effort into that mode for a good two and a half years before apparently deciding it was no longer a priority. If it took that long for them to internalize CW’s performance as a mode, I suspect Solaris is going to need a hell of a lot longer than a few weeks or even months to know if it is truly a “succcess” from thier point of view.

But its not only percentage which is important for a complete picture, its also who is paying most for Mechpacks and other real money stuff.

I really dont know, but i have a certain feeling that most money givers are also the same guys who are mostly playing FP.

If i look into my unit, there are many money givers and these guys are totally into FP.

The Dropdecks, the new tech and with that new tactics are things which can convince you to buy a Mechpack. QP & S7? They dont open my moneybag and most ppl i am talking to think about the same.

11 % FP Population can be more than 11 % money givers.

[Bud Crue]

Bishop Six, on 24 April 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

But its not only percentage which is important for a complete picture, its also who is paying most for Mechpacks and other real money stuff.

I only mentioned CW as a historical reference in terms of how long it might take PGI to analyze data of a new mode such as Solaris.

We as players cannot know if given mode is a success or not. Only PGI knows the criteria for that success (such as it being a driver of sales or what have you) and presumably it will take some amount of time for them to collect the data needed to compare with their expectations...whatever they may be (mech sales, player participation, new player attraction and retention, etc.). CW suggests that “success” as we players may define it, is irrelevant to PGI. They openly noted the low numbers of players for CW for years, but kept it around and occasionally developed it (see phases, that’s PGI development whether one agrees with the directions they took or not) with little or no change in player buy in. Does that make it a success? Beats the hell out of me.

Solaris’s “success” may very well be similarly mysterious. We as players simply don’t know what or how PGI determines a modes relative “success”; and even PGI can’t know -regardless of criteria (unless it really is something as silly as I posited originally)- until sufficient time has passed to give them a data set to analyze relative to whatever criteria they have set as being determinative as indicating a “success”.

[Danger817]

I like it and hate it all at the same time. Parts of it are fun but I quickly learned that in Division 1 there is pretty much only a couple competitive mechs. Unfortunately my QP favorite (HGN IIC KP) is not one of those competitive mechs. I kept tweaking my loadout trying to make it competitive but at the end of the day it just couldn't compete with the Annihilator builds.

So I decided to buy an ANH 2A. Finally repaired my negative K/D from the HGN up to a positive K/D.

In terms of play and tactics the lighter mechs in Div 1 are interesting to play against because I had to learn to protect my undamaged leg after my other one was destroyed seeing as that's what they always go for. Otherwise most matches are my ANH vs another ANH or DWF where we both just try to core the other person and whoever gets the first shots off usually gets it done first. Match over in 1 minute maybe 2.

Maybe I need to switch to a different division to experience more tactics and cat and mouse but honestly given the current maps I don't know if it would be much better.

TL:DR: It's ok but it needs work and balancing

[Mystere]

Map selection should be:



We should dispense of this voting crap.

And add a larger variety of maps, much larger.

[Mystere]

Bud Crue, on 24 April 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

CW suggests that “success” as we players may define it, is irrelevant to PGI. They openly noted the low numbers of players for CW for years, but kept it around and occasionally developed it (see phases, that’s PGI development whether one agrees with the directions they took or not) with little or no change in player buy in. Does that make it a success? Beats the hell out of me.

They released an extremely emaciated skeleton of a minimally viable product and then at the same expected it to be a gigantic success?

[Nightbird]

Voting is good, random sucks. Imagine playing escort and incursion more often :shudders:

[Mystere]

Danger817, on 24 April 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

Finally repaired my negative K/D ...

It is absolutely mathematically impossible for K/D to be negative.

Nightbird, on 24 April 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Voting is good, random sucks. Imagine playing escort and incursion more often :shudders:

I'd love it. So that's that.

They just need to fix those two game modes.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Bud Crue, on 24 April 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

I only mentioned CW as a historical reference in terms of how long it might take PGI to analyze data of a new mode such as Solaris.

We as players cannot know if given mode is a success or not. Only PGI knows the criteria for that success (such as it being a driver of sales or what have you) and presumably it will take some amount of time for them to collect the data needed to compare with their expectations...whatever they may be (mech sales, player participation, new player attraction and retention, etc.). CW suggests that “success” as we players may define it, is irrelevant to PGI. They openly noted the low numbers of players for CW for years, but kept it around and occasionally developed it (see phases, that’s PGI development whether one agrees with the directions they took or not) with little or no change in player buy in. Does that make it a success? Beats the hell out of me.

Solaris’s “success” may very well be similarly mysterious. We as players simply don’t know what or how PGI determines a modes relative “success”; and even PGI can’t know -regardless of criteria (unless it really is something as silly as I posited originally)- until sufficient time has passed to give them a data set to analyze relative to whatever criteria they have set as being determinative as indicating a “success”.

It’s for sure a “success” in terms of being c-bill, gxp and banked skill point sink. I am not complaining...it just is what it is. I burned my through the last of my banked skill points on lower division mechs that I never used (or never bought, because they weren’t great) prior to skill tree. It’s also very likely to have increased mech sales...especially in lower divisions (several of which are heros for MC) and likely also mech bay sales...also an MC item. I personally dropped 100+ million c-bills on buying and skilling mechs for Solaris in the past week and am again out of available mech bays...I think I have only played in 4 divisions, so if I did all 7 it could even be worse. I will probably also never sell a mech again due to Solaris...(as it could be moved to a lower division). So,, at least on those counts it’s a success for PGI.

[Bud Crue]

Mystere, on 24 April 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

They released an extremely emaciated skeleton of a minimally viable product and then at the same expected it to be a gigantic success?

Funny how that worked, right? But here’s the thing, from PGI’s perspective, they may yet still consider CW to be a brilliant triumph of mode and market design. From what they advertised to what they released it is reasonable from the player expectation to consider CW an abject failure, but from PGI’s point of view they asserted that what you call an “emancipated skeleton” was their “end game mode” for several years. Economically, by their own admission they were able to let it sit without any dev time invested for what was it...9 months?...and people still played it; some still do. A mode they were able to develop in a self proclaimed minimally viable format, which left out much of what they said it would have, and then that they could ignore developing further and eliminate extraneous maintenance costs for months on end, and yet the marks...I mean customers...were still willing to play it. THAT is success.

But that’s here nor there. The point of the CW reference was to illustrate that only PGI can determine if anything around here is a success or not and by precedent their determinations regarding anything of this nature is going to take a heck of a long time. CW is still here and though many may love it or hate it, for all we know PGI may consider it to be a “success”. Solaris will be just as much a victim to our subjective views, but like with CW, only PGI will know if it is a success in terms of population engagement, player attraction or retention, a driver of mech pack sales, or whatever other condition they use to as a determinative factor.

[FrontGuard]

i'm just getting geared up.
my quest for the meta has just begun.

[sycocys]

Mystere, on 24 April 2018 - 08:57 AM, said:

Map selection should be:



We should dispense of this voting crap.

And add a larger variety of maps, much larger.

100% behind both points. I'd really like to see boundary limitations of a bunch of the other maps to utilize the lesser + unused areas as well as the base areas in some of the FW maps would be pretty fitting for small scale arena even though they are heavily trafficked in other modes.

Either way there's a ton of map areas/assets already in the game that could be very quickly re-purposed into adding a lot of visual variety to Solaris.

The whole map elimination thing was an okay gimmick about the first 5-10 times, super lame and boring after that.