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#1 LordLosh

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:37 AM

First and foremost FREE FOR ALL! I was for sure we would have this. it was a staple to Solaris in the old games and with the success of games like fortnight and PUG, it's a no-brainer that we need this.
-3 months- is WAY to long for adjustments and balances. for a season is fine but changes need to be made way more often than monthly when we are first starting out and with such a rocky start at that "division wise".
-The main complaint I hear about the division is there is no real rhyme or reason and people expected to fight other mechs in the same weight or a step up in weight class. I know this will end in the same conversation of one or two mechs dominating that division but at this point would that be so bad compared to what we have now? I would prefer this type of system. 4 divisions based on weight. BUT some of the top performing mechs sprinkled into the next weight class above.
D1 should be best assaults nothing else. D2 should be ok assaults and the best heavys. D3 should be the ok heavies and best Mediums. D4 should be ok mediums and the best Lights. D5 should be the trash of whats left worst mediums and lights. D6 could be open or take the top 2-4 performing mechs from each division and let's see who wins? D7 I don't think is needed and would help all other game modes.
-Maps- They all brawl friendly. I have no idea how to make a bigger map work but would be nice if they could.
staling/camping happens in every fps cant really fix it. talks of damage penalties and such but the time to implement and perfect this would be a waste compared to the other more pressing issues.
-More voice lines for Duncan and perhaps a 2nd party announcer. Russ said it would happen
-Spectate mode 2500 to elo to much? we almost a week in and only 1 player has that much. Props "BradtotheBone" others are all 400 plus points away. I'm sure given time it will pan out maybe, but I just don't see solairs thriving if changes are not made soon. like major one's next patch
-D1- without a doubt ANH has to get a nerf. it having 163 points of CT armor is too much. compared to other 100 ton having 136. Also, don't think it needs any weapon quirks at all being able to boat the way it does. After this happens we can talk about mechs that should or shouldn't be here. But ultimately all this Division will be is DAKA dire wolf and Annihilators.
-D2- I think it has a good start mech placement wise based on the variety of leaderboard mechs. Nova, Summoner shouldn't be here. I question if this is the place for lights but I like the fact they keep the assaults from running away with it.
-D3- it's a mess. Don't think assaults should be here unless they 85 tons or less and suck.

I guess the more I go on the more I will just pick and choose a system that's more weight balanced so ill leave it at that.

#2 Rick T Dangerous

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 12:23 PM

View PostLordLosh, on 22 April 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

-3 months- is WAY to long for adjustments and balances. for a season is fine but changes need to be made way more often than monthly when we are first starting out and with such a rocky start at that "division wise".


Complete agreement.

Also, the match maker seems a little mean. As soon as I get my W/LR to an even 1, it puts me against folks with much higher W/LR and ELO rating. So it goes down again, rinse, repeat. Gets kinda boring.

#3 Nesutizale

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:45 AM

What ELO waits till you reach a KD1? Man you are lucky. With a KD below 1 I get matched with people who have KD 2-3 sometimes...but its getting less frequent. Maybe we need to give the ELO system more time to sort people out.

#4 calmdawn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:02 AM

When I played solaris yesterday, I often had 1-3 ppl in a queue. And sometimes I couldn't get a pair. Meanwhile some ppl are having duels with the same person 5 times in a row! After a while there will be 10 times less ppl, like in always happens after a short while.

If there is 1 guy in a queue, matchmaker will force you to play with that guy. We need a solution from developers to be able to have a fight even with low population, otherwise game population might become even smaller.

#5 Nesutizale

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:10 AM

How about haveing an option/checkbox you can select to become a "Free Devision" player. Meaning that you will challange everyone, regardless of the mech you have selected. Only ELO will be taken into account.

#6 calmdawn

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:21 AM

I am afraid the understanding of present matchmaking system defects in Solaris 7 mode is growing.

And I hope, developers are not going to through this project.

Anyway, there is a grim possibility that everything is ok from their point of view: they have invested some money and getting planned revenue. In this case there is nothing we can do.

#7 Throe

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:44 PM

*If* we had shields and/or some sort of health regen or mid-match repair ability, I could support a free for all game mode. It works in PUBG, Fortnite, and similar games only because players have a way to heal themselves and equip armor they find laying around.

As it stands, free for all in MWO would be a joke.

#8 Throe

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:57 PM

View PostNesutizale, on 23 April 2018 - 12:45 AM, said:

What ELO waits till you reach a KD1? Man you are lucky. With a KD below 1 I get matched with people who have KD 2-3 sometimes...but its getting less frequent. Maybe we need to give the ELO system more time to sort people out.


The Solaris Skill Rating(SSR) system is based on the chess rating system created by and named after Arpad Elo. The name of the system isn't all capitals. It's capitalized like a proper name, just like Arpad's Surname. Elo.

And you're focused far too much on W/L ratio, which is functionally meaningless in such a system. Your SSR is largely what determines your opponent match, and by extension, also how much SSR you gain or lose based on the match results.

As an example, two opponents facing off from an equal 1500 SSR each: The winner either way will probably gain about 15 SSR.

If instead, you get 'unlucky' and end up matched at 1400 SSR against an opponent with 1600 SSR, here are the approximate possible outcomes:
You win: You gain ~20 SSR; your opponent probably loses ~20 SSR.
You lose: Your opponent gains ~10 SSR, you lose ~10 SSR.

The bottom line is that your opponent still risks more rating by fighting you, than you risk, simply because their SSR is already so much higher than yours. Normally, in such a system, the Elo rating is it's own reward. The only reason you're competing. In MWO, we also have the extra match rewards of CBills, XP, and ACC. Currently, though, if you're after CBills, you'll want to go play Quick Play instead. CBill rewards from Solaris matches are currently terrible by comparison.

Put another way, the SSR system predicts the player with higher SSR will win, and so it "isn't impressed" when they win and verified it's prediction. So it rewards them less than it would if it was a fair fight. If instead, you manage to pull the win as the "underdog", the system is "surprised" and rewards you appropriately more than usual for a fair fight.

Edited by Throe, 24 April 2018 - 01:59 PM.


#9 Spectralfx

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:25 PM

The real issue with solaris is the Anni, it should have its own non-division so all the spam may cease Posted Image

#10 Mechsniper

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:38 PM

The better option is to de-nerf the Dire Wolf, Atlas, etc that were overly nerfed to make lights the assault killers they were never meant to be in any prior iteration of MW or BT game or lore. Then put the big guys together alone.

#11 Throe

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 02:54 PM

View PostMechsniper, on 24 April 2018 - 05:38 PM, said:

The better option is to de-nerf the Dire Wolf, Atlas, etc that were overly nerfed to make lights the assault killers they were never meant to be in any prior iteration of MW or BT game or lore. Then put the big guys together alone.

Excuse me. The lightest 'Mech in the game was *the best* hands down for upwards of 90% of matches you'd encounter in the SNES version of MechWarrior, and would absolutely wreck the heaviest 'Mechs in the game without even taking a single shot of return fire. A single PPC, and either the largest engine you can fit or enough jump jets to be able to move ~100 kph, with 0 armor. Beats everything on the field, because all the planets(levels) were functionally perfect spheres, and nothing could catch you, and the PPC was the longest range weapon on the field, which the enemy AI would never fire at you at actual max range even if one of them had a PPC to use(they usually didn't). The only levels it didn't work on were the ones where the enemies would prioritize the base on the planet if it was closer to them than you were to them.

As concerns Lore or BattleTech table top, it's largely irrelevant to MWO balance, because they're completely and utterly different games. The moment they put live pilots in the cockpit with everything in real time, all the rules and standards for turn based table top fly out the window. That was a starting point. Nothing more.

That said, I have no objection to the current iteration of Lights in MWO, so long as PGI tries to ensure the Lights that are paired up in the same Divisions vs Heavies and Assaults can compete on that level. Some right now have no hope of doing that. Some can do it easily.

That reminds me. The PPC in SNES MW was somewhat unique, in that it was pin point, front loaded, hit scan. If we were to compare it to anything in MWO it would be like a pulse laser with only one "pulse". Just "wub". Come to think of it, the standard lasers in MW3 worked this way too. It was the pulse lasers in that game which had a longer duration.

Edited by Throe, 25 April 2018 - 03:08 PM.


#12 SilentScreamer

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 03:56 PM

View PostThroe, on 25 April 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:


Excuse me. The lightest 'Mech in the game was *the best* hands down for upwards of 90% of matches you'd encounter in the SNES version of MechWarrior, and would absolutely wreck the heaviest 'Mechs in the game without even taking a single shot of return fire. A single PPC, and either the largest engine you can fit or enough jump jets to be able to move ~100 kph, with 0 armor. Beats everything on the field, because all the planets(levels) were functionally perfect spheres, and nothing could catch you, and the PPC was the longest range weapon on the field, which the enemy AI would never fire at you at actual max range even if one of them had a PPC to use(they usually didn't). The only levels it didn't work on were the ones where the enemies would prioritize the base on the planet if it was closer to them than you were to them.



I think I used a heavy mech with a really slow engine. What I did with all the extra tonnage was install enough jumpjets to circle the globe/control range like your light mech and load up enough SRMs to destroy the entire planet.

Still have the game and SNES console, not sure if they still work. While fun at the time, the game was not really recognizable as Mechwarrior/Battletech. MW2 &MW2:Mercs did better for the franchise and are still fun to replay.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 21 August 2018 - 04:01 PM.


#13 Dionnsai

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 06:42 AM

View PostLordLosh, on 22 April 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

First and foremost FREE FOR ALL! I was for sure we would have this. it was a staple to Solaris in the old games and with the success of games like fortnight and PUG, it's a no-brainer that we need this.

When I heard solaris was coming, I assumed this game mode would be central, to have it not here at all just sucks.

Quote

-3 months- is WAY to long for adjustments and balances. for a season is fine but changes need to be made way more often than monthly when we are first starting out and with such a rocky start at that "division wise".

They should try cutting seasons to 45-60 days and see how that goes. 90 is definitely too long.

Quote

-The main complaint I hear about the division is there is no real rhyme or reason and people expected to fight other mechs in the same weight or a step up in weight class. I know this will end in the same conversation of one or two mechs dominating that division but at this point would that be so bad compared to what we have now? I would prefer this type of system. 4 divisions based on weight. BUT some of the top performing mechs sprinkled into the next weight class above.

I (mostly) like the divisions as they are, there are some fun things that can be done, like taking quickdraws against annihilators for example. But there are obvious outliers like king crabs that should really be fighting the other ac2 boats in div 1, the rest of the divisions seem to be ok for the most part and I can get away with dropping a variety of mechs.

Quote

D1 should be best assaults nothing else. D2 should be ok assaults and the best heavys. D3 should be the ok heavies and best Mediums. D4 should be ok mediums and the best Lights. D5 should be the trash of whats left worst mediums and lights. D6 could be open or take the top 2-4 performing mechs from each division and let's see who wins? D7 I don't think is needed and would help all other game modes.

Same as above, I Iike the slightly looser divisions, if a pilot is good enough to beat an assault with a heavy/medium/light they should have that option. That said, there are mechs that need to be in different divisions, and shorter seasons, with the adjustments that come with them should help that.

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-Maps- They all brawl friendly. I have no idea how to make a bigger map work but would be nice if they could.
Brawl "friendly" is not brawl "only" I do not brawl except in 1 division and I do fine, on all maps, you just have to study the maps, know the best positions and maintain range properly. Obviously you can't build a mech that can defeat all possible attackers, but that goes with the territory, its a little bit rock-paper-scissors.

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staling/camping happens in every fps cant really fix it. talks of damage penalties and such but the time to implement and perfect this would be a waste compared to the other more pressing issues.
There are counters to campers, just have to use your imagination. Jump jets are a big help here.

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-More voice lines for Duncan and perhaps a 2nd party announcer. Russ said it would happen
not important

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-Spectate mode 2500 to elo to much? we almost a week in and only 1 player has that much. Props "BradtotheBone" others are all 400 plus points away. I'm sure given time it will pan out maybe, but I just don't see solairs thriving if changes are not made soon. like major one's next patch

there are actually more matches to spectate than you think, the problem is, the way the UI is designed WRONGLY, the Watch list doesn't show up unless you minimize some other elements. This needs to be fixed and made prominent.

Quote

-D1- without a doubt ANH has to get a nerf. it having 163 points of CT armor is too much. compared to other 100 ton having 136. Also, don't think it needs any weapon quirks at all being able to boat the way it does. After this happens we can talk about mechs that should or shouldn't be here. But ultimately all this Division will be is DAKA dire wolf and Annihilators.
Right now annihilators are beatable with my quickdraw, but not always and it's a tough fight with a good pilot. Nerf them and I'll win even more, not sure that works.

Quote

-D2- I think it has a good start mech placement wise based on the variety of leaderboard mechs. Nova, Summoner shouldn't be here. I question if this is the place for lights but I like the fact they keep the assaults from running away with it.
-D3- it's a mess. Don't think assaults should be here unless they 85 tons or less and suck.
I guess the more I go on the more I will just pick and choose a system that's more weight balanced so ill leave it at that.
It doesn't matter how you break down the divisions, there will always be a handful of mechs that dominate. Adding FFA mode would alleviate this somewhat, but in 1v1 there will always be a hands down best and moving mechs around divisions will just change which mech that is.

#14 Marius Evander

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 01:16 AM

NECROMANCY !

#15 PeppaPig

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 01:59 AM

Only issue I am aware of is that the Sol 7 Mode exists at all . . . . waste of time, resources and money. Should have focused on FW and the immersive element of MWO first.

#16 Dionnsai

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 05:35 AM

View PostPeppaPig, on 23 August 2018 - 01:59 AM, said:

Only issue I am aware of is that the Sol 7 Mode exists at all . . . . waste of time, resources and money. Should have focused on FW and the immersive element of MWO first.


I disagree, but it could be made much better. I value the ability to sharpen my skills in fast 1v1 battles while still getting a payout. Still, at this point, FW needs to be the focus.





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