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What's Better 3Xlrm5 Or 2Xlrm10


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#1 Chryckan

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 09:35 AM

With the current preference for poking/sniping and lurms in the QP, I am thinking of joining the lurms brigade. Since most of my mechs are short to mid ranged brawler builds, I'm starting to get tired of always be out of range while the others on both sides just poke at range or dump lurms on each other.
(I will refrain from commenting on the fact that players in the QP queue, usually is way out of effective range for their weapons while the poking is going on.)

Therefore I'm thinking of adding an Archer to my single other lurm boat.

However, I don't want it to be purely a lurmboat and just slap on a pair of LRM20s.

So I have been reading up on LRMs on the forum and settled on either using 3xLRM5 or 2xLRM10.

But which combination would be the better?

Their dps doesn't differ significantly so their damage out put is the same even if the alpha differ with 5 points.

From what I've read, for LRM10s it appears that the consensus is that they can core mech easily making it the killyest.
While the LRM5s is more rapid firing and the most irritating, while chain firing allows you to drain ams ammo quickly, which is an interesting tactic.

What's the cut off for artemis on LRMs? I know that for SRMs it's only the 6 that really benefit from Artemis compared to the extra weight. Is it the same for LRMs?

If you interested I'm thinking of making an archer along these lines. (Please ignore armour distribution as these are just mock ups.)

ARC-5S One

ARC-5S TWO

#2 Koniving

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 09:59 AM

3 LRM 5 versus 2 LRM 10s?
Two LRM 10s. Fewer hardpoints. Less slots. Less heat.

Firing rate difference isn't that significant. More damage per volley., better chance against AMS though in both cases they won't really get through.

3 LRM-5s comes out to 9 tons with Artemis. 2 LRM-10s are already 10 tons, so here LRM-5s win out.

A better comparison would be even numbers of missiles as you'd get clearer pictures as to whether to go one way or the other. 3 LRM-5s trump an LRM-15 except in hardpoint consumption, heat, and Artemis, but 3 LRM-5s act as if they already are an Artemis equipped LRM-15 that fires faster.

#3 Koniving

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:05 AM

This said, you may as well have an LRM-15 with Artemis (8 tons). Less frequent firing but lets be honest, if you fire too fast you'll just waste ammo. You lose that tactic for stripping AMS.
Either way your build needs BAP, or all your missiles will get shutdown.

In the case of your builds, the 3 LRM-5s is the better option due to the bigger engine.

This said... You could use the tons saved with an LRM-15 + Artemis to better cool the mech; 33% efficiency... for me that would be suicidal but this is because I like to shoot...often.

#4 Tesunie

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:11 AM

Between the two, specifically, I'd go with dual LRM10s over triple LRM5s. Better overall damage being tossed at the enemy every time. More of a threat. However, the triple LRM5s can produce a continuous stream of LRMs, which can irritate an opponent, shake their aim and even blind them. However, it depends upon constant lock to work... Where as the dual LRM10s can shoot on more limited timed locks...

As for Artemis cut off, don't bother with Artemis on LRM5s. It just isn't typically worth the weight/crit. LRM10s start to gain some benefit, but it can still do well without it. On here, Artemis helps with several things; missile lock on times and spread are the big ones here. It will give each of them equal benefits of spread in this case, so weight becomes the consideration. On the second part, lock on times, your LRM5 tactic would be to spam the shots in chain fire. Faster lock on times aren't super beneficial, as you are looking more to maintain a lock. (TAG would help far more in this case most likely.) For LRM10s, you may want to get the faster lock times to "snap shoot" your LRM volley as you should be group firing them together.

As for your builds... without discussing optimizations and stuff, number two is the better build. In this case, you can shoot your LRMs at shorter lock times, which means the Artemis helps get those locks faster. This means larger windows of attack options. This also helps your SSRMs to gain locks faster as well, another benefit. Only addition I'd suggest would be a BAP, which will cancel out a localized enemy ECM unit, meaning you can hunt ECM lights with your SSRMs.

(I will apologize now, as I've only glossed over your post. Sorry if I missed something.)

#5 Tesunie

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:18 AM

View PostKoniving, on 28 April 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

In the case of your builds, the 3 LRM-5s is the better option due to the bigger engine.


You realize we just gave him opposite recommendations for different reasons...? That's kinda comical in a way. Just goes to show it's all a matter of preference.

As for heat. it should be manageable. Shoot only the LRMs at 300-60m(+?), then shoot the MLs in their range as they share it with LRMs, then shop shooting LRMs as you approach SSRM ranges. Maybe not optimal or "best", but it can work. I'd have to personally take the mech for a spin to see if it runs too hot for myself. (I'm a proponent of experimentation, as you already know.)

#6 Chryckan

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:36 AM

View PostTesunie, on 28 April 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Between the two, specifically, I'd go with dual LRM10s over triple LRM5s. Better overall damage being tossed at the enemy every time. More of a threat. However, the triple LRM5s can produce a continuous stream of LRMs, which can irritate an opponent, shake their aim and even blind them. However, it depends upon constant lock to work... Where as the dual LRM10s can shoot on more limited timed locks...

As for Artemis cut off, don't bother with Artemis on LRM5s. It just isn't typically worth the weight/crit. LRM10s start to gain some benefit, but it can still do well without it. On here, Artemis helps with several things; missile lock on times and spread are the big ones here. It will give each of them equal benefits of spread in this case, so weight becomes the consideration. On the second part, lock on times, your LRM5 tactic would be to spam the shots in chain fire. Faster lock on times aren't super beneficial, as you are looking more to maintain a lock. (TAG would help far more in this case most likely.) For LRM10s, you may want to get the faster lock times to "snap shoot" your LRM volley as you should be group firing them together.

As for your builds... without discussing optimizations and stuff, number two is the better build. In this case, you can shoot your LRMs at shorter lock times, which means the Artemis helps get those locks faster. This means larger windows of attack options. This also helps your SSRMs to gain locks faster as well, another benefit. Only addition I'd suggest would be a BAP, which will cancel out a localized enemy ECM unit, meaning you can hunt ECM lights with your SSRMs.

(I will apologize now, as I've only glossed over your post. Sorry if I missed something.)



So something like this: ARC-5S LRM10 mockup

Need to read up on TAG. Curious, does it help ssrm at all?

Another thing this new mock up made me curious about. If you only have a launcher in one shoulder, does one or both launch-bay doors open when you fire?

As for heat, the 33% is if you fire all weapon systems at once. Since I figured that I use the Lurms at range and switch to ssrm and MLs when it comes to brawling the heat is quite manageable.

Edited by Chryckan, 28 April 2018 - 10:37 AM.


#7 Koniving

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:43 AM

In terms of of the builds and engine, but actually I originally gave him that the LRM 10s would be better. Just if the difference between the weights is that big in terms of engines, then it isn't worth it.

Heh. My own preference is a couple of bigger LRM 15s or 20s, with but I normally only carry Artemis with a single launcher and some streaks, I thought of how funny it would be to have a single LRM-15 lifting one side up and what to do with that extra ton, and I imagined the other side lifting up for a rocket surprise.

So I redesigned something to suit that thrill with a pair of RL-20s and a single LRM-15. Changed the Streaks to SRM 6s, ditched the Artemis, pumped in a couple of heatsinks and upped the engine. I'm happy with what I came up with. But its for me. Posted Image

View PostChryckan, on 28 April 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

Need to read up on TAG. Curious, does it help ssrm at all?

In terms of lock time, all lock missiles use the same mechanics. Artemis and TAG both help Streaks with lock on time....even though Artemis isn't supposed to. TAG technically isn't supposed to either.
But they do.

Beyond that, neither gives any benefits to other factors of Streak or ATM missiles such as grouping, etc. It gives zero benefits to MRMs after the first hotfix from the release of the new weapons.

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2018 - 10:48 AM.


#8 Tesunie

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 12:43 PM

View PostKoniving, on 28 April 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Beyond that, neither (Artemis and TAG) gives benefits to... ATM missiles...


TAG does benefit ATM missiles similar to Artemis LRMs. Beyond that, yeah. Just felt I needed to add that note. (Of course, I could be wrong.)

#9 Koniving

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 01:26 PM

View PostTesunie, on 28 April 2018 - 12:43 PM, said:


TAG does benefit ATM missiles similar to Artemis LRMs. Beyond that, yeah. Just felt I needed to add that note. (Of course, I could be wrong.)

It isn't supposed to give a benefit to missile spread, as it comes stock with the Artemis benefit built in.
This said, who knows?

#10 Tesunie

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 01:29 PM

View PostKoniving, on 28 April 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

It isn't supposed to give a benefit to missile spread, as it comes stock with the Artemis benefit built in.
This said, who knows?


Last I knew, TAG stacks with NARC. TAG stacks with Artemis. NARC doesn't stack with Artemis. So the relationship should remain the same even for ATMs. But as you said... who knows?

#11 Koniving

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 01:35 PM

Pretty much. Its just that PGI was pretty adamant about it already getting the tight spread of Artemis native to the weapon system and fixing it so that Artemis doesn't further enhance the spread. Can't recall if tag's on there or not.
http://www.sarna.net...actical_Missile ATM makes no mention of TAG. I know that for LRMs and SRMs to use tag in BT, they had to have special ammo which was triple the price.
http://www.sarna.net...Semi-Guided_LRM

Don't know if ATM needed that too or not.
Or if PGI just did the same thing they did with regular LRMs, threw it all together. (Needed a special NARC-enabled LRM/SRM, too, to use with NARC.)

#12 ShiverMeRivets

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 07:30 AM

When I get frustrated with my short range I slap an LRM10+artemis on my Roughneck 2A brawler instead of an arm ballistic. Now I can LRM away till the brawl starts. I found that the real use of the LRMs is to push the enemy into cover when they hear the missile warning - thus allowing me to close distance to the next cover. They cant tell from the warning if they are about to get hit by my LRM10 or by a full salvo of a Stalker. The actual damage they do is just a bonus.

#13 Chryckan

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 10:09 AM

View PostShiverMeRivets, on 29 April 2018 - 07:30 AM, said:

When I get frustrated with my short range I slap an LRM10+artemis on my Roughneck 2A brawler instead of an arm ballistic. Now I can LRM away till the brawl starts. I found that the real use of the LRMs is to push the enemy into cover when they hear the missile warning - thus allowing me to close distance to the next cover. They cant tell from the warning if they are about to get hit by my LRM10 or by a full salvo of a Stalker. The actual damage they do is just a bonus.


Have a Banshee with HGauss and MLs that I did that on. I know it's probably smarter to give it SRMs or MRMs but it's fun to plink away with the lurms while slowly trudging forward...

#14 Horseman

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 02:10 PM

View PostChryckan, on 28 April 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

However, I don't want it to be purely a lurmboat and just slap on a pair of LRM20s.
So I have been reading up on LRMs on the forum and settled on either using 3xLRM5 or 2xLRM10.
But which combination would be the better?

LRM-15 with Artemis. However, running less than 30 tubes just isn't enough firepower to be worth it.





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