55 replies to this topic

[ANOM O MECH]

And the increase in usage in CW is palpable....

Seeing a lot of games with players running lurms on every map and every situation. This is easily one of the stupidest things people can do yet the frequency and numbers of people doing it is astounding.

We have up to four drop decks. I can understand and would say nothing to a fellow player if one of those four had lurms for use when appropriate. Alpine or Polar comes up, or Sulfurous even, then let loose with all of your lurms and we might even set up a narcer to make sure the enemy can't move. In those situations I may even be lurming with you.

Using them everywhere every time however is crippling to teams. Matches over the past week with population seemingly low due to other modes and games being released, have been terrible.

Those that think the better units enjoy matches that end up 48-7, 48-13, and 48-11 such as the last three I played last night are mistaken. Especially since the numbers are even worse if you account for the numerous dropship kills and overheat deaths. Our group actually broke up since there was nobody to play. Oh and we actually went IS looking for other units as most of them are Clan right now. So no, we were not looking to seal club.

Last few evenings have been like this, and the toxicity is not coming from our side. Why would it, we were not angry and were in a group with folks we like (the level of intoxication also helped)? We even ran silly stuff, dropped a bunch of lights and rushed, and ran lurms ourselves to try and make things a bit closer. We even talked about ejecting a wave to make it harder or closer but were concerned that this may be too insulting or possibly against the spirit of ToS/CoC.

My point? Well a small change would help and would aid in adding a bit of depth and strategy to the game.

PGI please allow players to choose their drop deck after the two teams are matched.

The benefits to gameplay would be significant. One of the big ones being units that know each other would prepare not only for the map, but for the other guys strategy. The combat ID could easily be retained or tweaked to allow the side with it to have last change to their deck before locked in and such.

It could also open the door to allow better units to underton or do something of the like when up against a pug team or unit that is not competitive. This could/should even be incentivised so better players have a good reason to gimp themselves.

This is a quality of life improvement we really need and something that can be implemented without the chaos trying to add a matchmaker or other tools at this point in the product cycle.

[LordNothing]

potatoes gonna bring lerms. probably do better with them than any direct fire weapon. i only ask they limit it to one mech, and burn it with their team. dont cram it full of ammo so that it takes 30 minutes to burn it all. dont hold up waves with it. i never run more than 5t ammo in any lerm boat, frees up space for targeting gear, armor, engine, and backup weapons (and i never bring it into fp either). also if clan use atms instead, they are actually somewhat viable in their short range bracket.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 April 2018 - 01:44 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Yep. It's definately become worse since this "buff" in the patch.

Saw plenty of LRMs and even ATMs playing yesterday. It was ridiculous... Even 8-mans were doing it en-masse and just base camping...

Scoreboards of 48-6 and 48-9 happened about 4-5 times I reckon, AGAINST TEAMS. Stop LRMing you silly people, it cannot be fun to get owned that badly time and time again.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 29 April 2018 - 07:12 PM.

[TWIAFU]

LordNothing, on 29 April 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

potatoes gonna bring lerms. probably do better with them than any direct fire weapon. i only ask they limit it to one mech, and burn it with their team. dont cram it full of ammo so that it takes 30 minutes to burn it all. dont hold up waves with it. i never run more than 5t ammo in any lerm boat, frees up space for targeting gear, armor, engine, and backup weapons (and i never bring it into fp either). also if clan use atms instead, they are actually somewhat viable in their short range bracket.

Funny you say that potatoes are going to potato with LERMS.

Funny in that those very potatoes LERMing now are some of the most vocal anti-LERM pilots and some very, very, well known pilot names now boating a deck of them.

Funny that they cry rivers of salty tears when we refuse to sit in the open so they can sit at edges of the map and rain lerms.

Funny they commit suicide when they run out of LERM ammo.

Funny that they walk backwards in a straight line right out of bounds.

Funny they thing LERMing from the DZ for three waves is somehow smart.

Funny lemmings they are.

[Yondu Udonta]

Run up to their faces and beat the **** out of them potatoes, then only will the potatoes learn. I have no bloody idea why PGI decides to encourage no skill gameplay with the buff to lurms. And meanwhile can they remove Caustic Valley from the available maps in FP? There's more lurms on that map than Polar and Alpine combined, bloody Caustic Valley barely has any terrain to hide from lurms that I've even seen players from decent units running lurm boats.
I'm pretty sure that some units will not like the idea of being able to change drop decks after the teams have been matched. Especially units that like to run cheese. Don't need to further elaborate myself.

[Roland09]

Yondu Udonta, on 30 April 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

Run up to their faces and beat the **** out of them potatoes, then only will the potatoes learn.

You are being overly optimistic here.

More likely, they will instead get on the forums and whine how the tonnage increase was not enough, they need quirks for their mechs and the agility de-sync for their assault mechs revoked. m(

[Yondu Udonta]

Roland09, on 30 April 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

You are being overly optimistic here.

More likely, they will instead get on the forums and whine how the tonnage increase was not enough, they need quirks for their mechs and the agility de-sync for their assault mechs revoked. m(

Aight give them clanners 360tons so that they can bring 4 lurmnovas

[LordNothing]

TWIAFU, on 30 April 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

Funny you say that potatoes are going to potato with LERMS.

Funny in that those very potatoes LERMing now are some of the most vocal anti-LERM pilots and some very, very, well known pilot names now boating a deck of them.

Funny that they cry rivers of salty tears when we refuse to sit in the open so they can sit at edges of the map and rain lerms.

Funny they commit suicide when they run out of LERM ammo.

Funny that they walk backwards in a straight line right out of bounds.

Funny they thing LERMing from the DZ for three waves is somehow smart.

Funny lemmings they are.

what, you expect them to be capable of things like aiming? i see the way potatoes use direct fire weapons. they can miss an atlas with an lb20 at point blank range.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 April 2018 - 05:36 PM.

[eXizt]

Theres a main problem on all public matches, doesn´t matter if you play QP or FP. As long as you don´t drop with a trained Unit, or better, your Unit, LRM-Boats will profit from the passiveness of the player. Nobody want´s to loose his life will storming the front. But thats the easiest way to beat a LRM-Boats to pulp. Even a team with a mix of mid- and longrange (direct fire) setup can stomp a team with 4 LRM Mechs, when they draw near fast. But that wont happen very often when you play with pugs.

I see the most problems in MWO are caused by the fact you have one life for QP and 4 life´s for FP. Thats why nobody want to take a risk and sacrifice his mech for the team. I simply have no benefit for yourself outside your Unit.

[NimoStar]

Lurms were bad then and are still bad now

They just feel good because of the satisfaction of launching so many missiles.
(And see the red crosshairs when they hit)

So I run them, sometimes, not with lots of ammo though.

Edited by NimoStar, 04 May 2018 - 04:03 PM.

[Iron Buccaneer]

If you don't want to drop with pugs and what builds they bring then drop with a 12 man. You pug, you take what you get.

[Asym]

And, the elephant in the room is that LRM/ATM/SSRMs are all valid weapons in the game... Like flamers (oh for heavens sake)... Yes, marksmanship is an issue and sometimes, there just isn't a way to compensate... This is simple, do we want, as an example, 1000 players of which say, 200 can't shoot straight and not allow them to play? That's about 2K in lost revenue a year to PGI (or a lot more)....

Want a new map? Those 200 are or could be the financing. If we, as a community, go out of our way to keep driving people out, eventually, only the die-hards are left and the game reputation ends up a D+ in national reviews of the game...

I understand that pilots who "aren't meta or OP" drive you crazy sometimes, but, in many cases we play because we like this game but can't be that "killer elite" you all aspire to be. I'm handicapped. Others are young or have never actually shot weapons ever and yet, they are in-game because they like this genre.... We want to keep them; each and everyone of them.....numbers count and if you don't think so, look at the state of MM and FP.......small populations skew the game in many ways. It is really kinda funny that what I do for a hobby and what I did in real life would infer that I'd not ever need missiles and yet, I really like the in-direct fire role and would love to see that role expand in gameplay. IDF makes direct fire "better" by separating "those who can actually get into direct fire range" from those want-a-be's "who can't"... Those players are the best pilots because they were smart enough to live long enough to fight face-to-face.... Those few are whom I'd join a team for.

Just some thoughts from an old horse soldier.....

[Zergling]

justcallme A S H, on 29 April 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

Yep. It's definately become worse since this "buff" in the patch.

Saw plenty of LRMs and even ATMs playing yesterday. It was ridiculous... Even 8-mans were doing it en-masse and just base camping...

Scoreboards of 48-6 and 48-9 happened about 4-5 times I reckon, AGAINST TEAMS. Stop LRMing you silly people, it cannot be fun to get owned that badly time and time again.

And despite this, there are still hordes of players that insist LRMs are perfectly competitive weapons and that competitive/high skill players simply don't know how to use them.

Asym, on 01 May 2018 - 05:55 AM, said:

And, the elephant in the room is that LRM/ATM/SSRMs are all valid weapons in the game... Like flamers (oh for heavens sake)... Yes, marksmanship is an issue and sometimes, there just isn't a way to compensate... This is simple, do we want, as an example, 1000 players of which say, 200 can't shoot straight and not allow them to play? That's about 2K in lost revenue a year to PGI (or a lot more)....

MWO is a first person SHOOTER.

I have no sympathy for people trying to play a game they lack the basic skills to play at any sort of acceptable level, when there are plenty of games out there that don't require the skills they lack.
Quite simply, they can go play other games. I don't care one bit for their loss.

Edited by Zergling, 01 May 2018 - 07:02 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

justcallme A S H, on 29 April 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

Yep. It's definately become worse since this "buff" in the patch.

Saw plenty of LRMs and even ATMs playing yesterday. It was ridiculous... Even 8-mans were doing it en-masse and just base camping...

Scoreboards of 48-6 and 48-9 happened about 4-5 times I reckon, AGAINST TEAMS. Stop LRMing you silly people, it cannot be fun to get owned that badly time and time again.

I hope you don't meant me. Listen here, i asked my premade if i can run lrm, they said yes but not a full deck. I was completely shitfaced so any directfire requiring aim was out of option and lrm was pretty much the only thing i could semi effectively operate. It was a lot of fun tho.

[Sjorpha]

It's still a good thing that an underpowered weapon system was buffed though. It's not surprising a lot of people and teams are testing them out for a while.

Now obviously LRMs are still very underpowered and things will normalize to the previous levels when that sinks in.

I hope they buff them a bit more personally, it would be nice if they were legitimately good on at least some maps.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Sjorpha, on 01 May 2018 - 08:17 AM, said:

It's still a good thing that an underpowered weapon system was buffed though. It's not surprising a lot of people and teams are testing them out for a while.

Now obviously LRMs are still very underpowered and things will normalize to the previous levels when that sinks in.

I hope they buff them a bit more personally, it would be nice if they were legitimately good on at least some maps.

Really?

OK, IS suffer more for this than anyone because clan generally can bring multi AMS builds easier and have more ECM mechs (which dont suck). So LRMs vs. clan are less effective.

We generally bring AMS on most mechs in a 12 man team for faction play and we have started finding that if the enemy are bringing 8 LRM mechs on open maps that having 12 AMS isn't enough any more. We have started bringing multiple ECM mechs as well but as they generally have poorer loadouts it makes them less combat effective.
LRMs are deffinitely effective now but are close to being too effective on mass against normal counter measures when fighting against IS.

All i'm saying is dont cry too much when the counter becomes 12 x assassins rushing in to your face or 12x ECM phoenix hawks doing 110kph and over running the LRM mechs.

[TWIAFU]

LordNothing, on 30 April 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

what, you expect them to be capable of things like aiming? i see the way potatoes use direct fire weapons. they can miss an atlas with an lb20 at point blank range.

The names I see boating LERMs, yes, they should and can aim. I have been on the unfortunate side of their ability to aim well....

Just so hypocritical and rather sad to see such well known pilots doing this now.

[ANOM O MECH]

Iron Buccaneer, on 01 May 2018 - 04:54 AM, said:

If you don't want to drop with pugs and what builds they bring then drop with a 12 man. You pug, you take what you get.

You misunderstand....

The group I was in at times was twelve, but mostly hovered around 9-10.

I am absolutely not talking about what pugs we picked up might have brought. We didn't even need them and they mostly were sub 500 damage.

Go back to the part where I mentioned the scores.

We literally massacred the enemy match after match with them barely scoring any kills. I am imploring people to stop running lurms everywhere as it ends up with experienced players absolutely destroying the enemy team.

If pugs ran reasonable builds, appropriate for map they are on and communicated to each other, matches wouldn't be so terribly one sided. They might not stand a very good chance at winning, but getting 24 to 30ish kills is very possible and much better match for everyone involved.

Certain well known pug lords are always on these here forums talking about the toxicity coming from units. Literally all of the anger and hate was exclusively pugsided this weekend. People angry about losing very badly when they are entirely at fault... Something's gotta give here.

[ANOM O MECH]

Yondu Udonta, on 30 April 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

Run up to their faces and beat the **** out of them potatoes, then only will the potatoes learn. I have no bloody idea why PGI decides to encourage no skill gameplay with the buff to lurms. And meanwhile can they remove Caustic Valley from the available maps in FP? There's more lurms on that map than Polar and Alpine combined, bloody Caustic Valley barely has any terrain to hide from lurms that I've even seen players from decent units running lurm boats.
I'm pretty sure that some units will not like the idea of being able to change drop decks after the teams have been matched. Especially units that like to run cheese. Don't need to further elaborate myself.

Laughs, cause I have a couple guys who will bring lurms or atm's to caustic. Usually only on Clan side though as IS dakka is just too good for folks to pass up on that map.

Cheese tactics? Crab rushes, Linebacker rushes, and Assassin rushes are often considered cheese. I think you missed the old way of siege as well where you attacked, counter attack, and hold. Hold phase was particularly prone to cheese....

Thing is though, we are kinda light on tactics. Some of these of things considered cheese are time honoured traditions to some units. BCMC's used to Cicada 2B rushes or Oxides. The tonnage trade is smart. People hate on it because it is effective. However, it generally backfires if folks are not good at it or the other team prepares/knows what to do.

Point? Last change would be important, which may make scouting worth something. These tactics wouldn't disappear, heck we rush with Assassins when Clan has combat ID all the time. Also would like it to be opened up to groups to underton or the like to make matches against pugs more even.

[ANOM O MECH]

LordNothing, on 30 April 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

what, you expect them to be capable of things like aiming? i see the way potatoes use direct fire weapons. they can miss an atlas with an lb20 at point blank range.

Have to say since I saw you pugging in some of those drops, that you took the pounding in stride although obviously frustrating.

Also as far as seeing folks aiming, I wonder the percentage of those terribads are actually due to improper mouse settings. Especially when you see someone try to track a light with lasers, a lot of the times it looks as it is a settings issue making people less competitive than they could be.