21 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Cause right now across multiple divisions light mech pilots tend to waste 10 minutes of my time, jumping around, doing jack and then force a draw. I literally lose up to -29 SSR each time I get a draw. This **** ain't funny.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 May 2018 - 08:36 PM.

[DFM]

heh, I have a MPL stealth spider 5D in div 7. I'm like 0-7 in it. I don't just run away and force a draw. I'm actively moving, looking for a new angle, and trying to kill. Then again, it has like 7 skill points unlocked so far. Maybe it will be better once i'm done but it's so far down the list of mechs to skill it aint funny. Doesn't hurt that I have a 1X either..

[Throe]

[redacted]

Edited by Throe, 11 December 2018 - 04:38 PM.

[El Bandito]

Throe, on 01 May 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

I've said it many times, I'll say it again. The Spiders need to be buffed. Even if only slightly. This is as much a problem in Quick Play as it is in Solaris.

That said, it is of course the Spider Pilot's prerogative to avoid you while it whittles you down. There's no way to change that, if we are to keep mixed weight class Divisions(and I think we should). It's the same way I fight with my Quickdraw in Division 1, and I'm sure it's extremely annoying to all the Annihilators I see there, but it's the only way for me to compete with them, since they have such an immense firepower and armor advantage over me.

I am completely fine with hit-and-run attacks--anything should go in Solaris. What I am not fine is the fact that a lot of the time, both of us are alive at the end of the match, and a draw makes us both lose SSR. Which hurts me more cause my SSR in Div 7 is close to 1900, and whenever I get a draw I lose somewhere between 20-29 points. Which also means I have to win on average 5 times to get those points back, since my opponents are usually around 1600-1700 SSR.

The situation doesn't happen often, but when it happens it is very annoying--and not just limited to Div 7. I just wish a draw doesn't penalize the participants so much.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 May 2018 - 09:49 AM.

[Throe]

[redacted]

Edited by Throe, 11 December 2018 - 04:38 PM.

[El Bandito]

Throe, on 01 May 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

I keep seeing people say this, but no one has offered any proof.

I lost 29 SSR yesterday by having a draw. Go ahead and make a tied match yourself, if you do not believe me.

[Medikal]

Solaris is terrible.
My very first match was my trial mech vs. a cheesy spider.

[El Bandito]

Medikal, on 01 May 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

Solaris is terrible.
My very first match was my trial mech vs. a cheesy spider.

Please do not bring trial mechs in Solaris. Against fully skilled mechs it will do very bad.

[Old-dirty B]

El Bandito, on 30 April 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

Cause right now across multiple divisions light mech pilots tend to waste 10 minutes of my time, jumping around, doing jack and then force a draw. I literally lose up to -29 SSR each time I get a draw. This **** ain't funny.

Sounds to me your mech and build is too much geared towards the heavier mechs or specialised if you will. Field a mech and build that is more capable against a broader range of opponents and playstyles and you will see less draws.

Ps. What you perceive as "doing jack" is most often part of strategy and tactics, finding your weakspots looking for angles and approaches where the light doesnt have to face all your weapons and has to drill trough all your armor. A good light pilot should evade a frontal engagement and should "wait" for his opponent to make a tactical mistake, luring him out of "his corner". ***


***: Trolling excluded of course...

Edited by B3R3ND, 01 May 2018 - 11:38 PM.

[El Bandito]

B3R3ND, on 01 May 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

Sounds to me your mech and build is too much geared towards the heavier mechs or specialised if you will. Field a mech and build that is more capable against a broader range of opponents and playstyles and you will see less draws.

Ps. What you perceive as "doing jack" is most often part of strategy and tactics, finding your weakspots looking for angles and approaches where the light doesnt have to face all your weapons and has to drill trough all your armor. A good light pilot should evade a frontal engagement and should "wait" for his opponent to make a tactical mistake, luring him out of "his corner". ***


***: Trolling excluded of course...

That's just the thing. I go out, exchange some shots, and actually manage to make their armor red, but then those Lights just stop engaging. They claim that they are trying to find better angles to shoot at me without dying but what ends up happening is the timer runs out. If one's skill is not good enough to take down heavier mechs in 10 full minutes, then one should not be piloting a frigging light mech, and making both of us lose SSR. Bloody waste of time.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 May 2018 - 12:54 AM.

[RickySpanish]

I don't think drawing a game should affect your SSR until you've drawn a certain number within a time period. Dragging matches out should be penalised, but it's difficult to determine whose fault it really is, so a grace period would help there. And yes, drawing tanks your SSR and it's extreeemely fecking annoying.

[Surn]

I wrote the RPI system for the mechwarrior Registry in the 1990s and it is now used in US college basketball.

It is much more mathematically sound than ELO, so I am biased...however... Consider a player getting several draws, reducing ELO and not getting many wins, then getting a draw vs you...it trashes your ELO because the system thinks you didn't beat a smaller, worse opponent.

To balance this, draws must be neutral, and only reflect a small + or - based on delta of ELO like +3 to -3. This means ties won't boost your score enough to be exploited and the won't lose enough score to vindictively damage opponents.

Edited by Surn, 02 May 2018 - 08:39 AM.

[Throe]

[redacted]

Edited by Throe, 11 December 2018 - 04:39 PM.

[El Bandito]

Throe, on 02 May 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

So there's that, and the fact that we get better match rewards for a Draw than for a loss...

Both sides lose just as much SSR in a tie, as if they had lost, if not more.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 May 2018 - 10:27 AM.

[Throe]

[redacted]

Edited by Throe, 11 December 2018 - 04:39 PM.

[El Bandito]

Throe, on 02 May 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

Match rewards = CBills, XP, ACC
You get more of them on a Draw than you do on a Loss.

Gonna have to laugh at this comment, cause if you spent entire 10 minutes just so you can get 20K C-Bills for a draw, you might as well play two losing Solaris matches instead and get more rewards. Heck, one of them might be a win!

Bottom line is, hoping for better rewards and dragging the fight out to a draw is inherently flawed idea.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 May 2018 - 11:10 AM.

[Throe]

[redacted]

Edited by Throe, 11 December 2018 - 04:40 PM.

[El Bandito]

Throe, on 02 May 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

I mean, I'd drop most of this argument pretty quickly if they just made a Draw worth the same match rewards as a Loss, because then at least it would be obvious that there's *nothing* to gain by going for the Draw. I'd still disagree with the idea that a Draw is even as bad as a Loss by any definition, but at least then the intent would be clear. Right now, it isn't.

All I am saying is that I find it clear that draw is as bad as a loss, since it makes you lose the same SSR, and is detrimental to reward grinding. About the only thing a draw can do better than a loss is to keep your WLR intact. Either way, I tweeted to Russ about draw making people lose SSR, and he said he will take a look at it.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 May 2018 - 12:37 PM.

[Throe]

[redacted]

Edited by Throe, 11 December 2018 - 04:40 PM.

[Jettrik Ryflix]

My 2 cents:
Maybe if your best 'mech is continually drawing against spiders, try piloting something faster?
I mean, the VND-1X (assuming that's your 'mech) needs to have some kind of flaw.