10 replies to this topic

[Langdon Alger]

Helly everyone!

I started MWO only three months ago. So far, I've played about 300+ matches in QP. Last weekend, I gave FW a first timid try. Since I've mainly played in IS mechs, I decided to become a loyalist, but that is not my main concern here.

I'd like to get some feedback on my current dropdeck. My means (aka choice of mechs) are rather limited at the moment, at least if I don't fill up with trial mechs. I own the following mechs:

Jenner JR7-K: 4 ML, SRM4 (mastered)
Griffin GRF-1S: 4 ML, 2 ASRM6, AMS (mastered)
Uziel UZL-3P(C): 2 SNPPC, SRM6, 2 MG (built for Solaris)
Catapult CPLT-K2: 2 HPPC, 2 ML, 2 LMG
Battlemaster BLR-1G: 3 ERLL, 4 ML

I used the Griffin in the three scouting missions that I've done so far and it didn't feel too bad. In the one invasion (siege, attacker side) that I've played, I dropped in the following order: BLR, JR7, CPLT, GRF. We got pretty much wrecked in that match. I know that the light and the medium are not considered to be good choices for FW. Will people make fun of me for dropping this way? And by "make fun of me" I mean: Is it possible to contribute or will it always be the case that people say something like "Dang, if we hadn't had to care for that JR7-K and that GRF-1S, we could've won the match"?

I already found out that FW is in many ways different from QP. Since up to now I mainly used energy weapons and SRMs, I think I don't have to change my weapon preferences totally. Am I right with this assumption? What about the CPLT build sketched above? I've read that HPPCs are not that popular in FW. Should I switch to LLs or ACs? I should add that so far the CPLT is the mech I felt least comfortable in during QP.

I really enjoy the lighter and faster mechs, at least in QP. And in that massacre of an invasion I did least bad in my second mech, the JR7. With that preference, what mechs would be good choices? I have my eyes on the WLF-2.

Thanks for reading
Langdon

[TooDumbToQuit]

Use what you have and what you are used to. I like the deck, the Jenner is a good ender/Gen killer.

Add more when you can.

No one wants LRMs or HPPC's in Faction. LRMs do have a place on a few maps in defense. But HPPCs. not so much.

There are now two kinds of Faction Warfare. The original one was and still is "Siege". But now they have every kind of matches in Faction Warfare.

I think most people will suggest that you drop some smaller weapons and go for, such as on the Battlemaster, add one more ERLL.

Faction Warfare is a deep rabbit hole. You can go down as far as you want to. Good luck, I also love Faction Warfare.

[justcallme A S H]

Langdon Alger, on 01 May 2018 - 02:06 AM, said:

I'd like to get some feedback on my current dropdeck. My means (aka choice of mechs) are rather limited at the moment, at least if I don't fill up with trial mechs. I own the following mechs:

Jenner JR7-K: 4 ML, SRM4 (mastered)
Griffin GRF-1S: 4 ML, 2 ASRM6, AMS (mastered)
Uziel UZL-3P(C): 2 SNPPC, SRM6, 2 MG (built for Solaris)
Catapult CPLT-K2: 2 HPPC, 2 ML, 2 LMG
Battlemaster BLR-1G: 3 ERLL, 4 ML

Honestly - Those builds need work and you do not have sufficient mechs to be even remotely competitive in the world that is FP.

Go read THIS THREAD, yes, all 16 pages. Fix your builds first, practice with them.

Also you need at least 8 mechs ready to go before doing FP. One with long range and the other with brawl to skirmish range. Without it, there is honestly no point and you will struggle to even break 1000 damage in it.

[Leone]

I've a few posts but don't go over build options too much. Classically, you'll want some long range mechs for the more open maps, and some brawlers like you've got for the knife fights. The big thing is to drop heaviest first unless the team needs a light for capping early, or has some sneaky plan they wanna try. Second wave jenner just doesn't provide as much armour when everyone else is dropping heavies. Think in terms of totality of armour and weight of fire.

Also, much as I love lights, you gotta consider that CW is a more group oriented mode, so lights are alot harder to use since you're not usually gonna find those juicy lone targets to take down that lights excel at. You're often running rabbit duty for the larger mechs, drawing fire from a full on firing line so your team gets to breach that first trade safely. It can work, and work well, but it's alot more harrowing an prone to failure than the usual quickplay flanking you may be used to.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 01 May 2018 - 08:25 AM.

[Horseman]

There are some mech tier lists and build lists that you might want to check as your first step to getting your builds right for FP.

DenAirwalkerr's tier list: https://docs.google....h2dYf87RbhXh_gI

ISEN tier list (mildly out of date): https://docs.google....65uUJNClTWrcsDk

MercStar runs its' own build list - I'm not sure how reliable it is, but for the sake of completeness it's here: http://www.mercstar....ory:Mech_Builds

MetaMechs used to be THE resource for builds, but it hasn't kept up to date with major shake-up introduced with the Skill Tree (quirk nerfs, engine desync etc) and newtech weapons. It can still be found on http://metamechs.com/ and some of the builds are still semi-relevant, but don't rely on it as your only source of info.

As for Skill Trees, Tarogato committed unspeakable acts of science unto them and came up with this guide: https://mwomercs.com...ryhard-edition/

Langdon Alger, on 01 May 2018 - 02:06 AM, said:

I'd like to get some feedback on my current dropdeck. My means (aka choice of mechs) are rather limited at the moment, at least if I don't fill up with trial mechs. I own the following mechs:

Jenner JR7-K: 4 ML, SRM4 (mastered)
Griffin GRF-1S: 4 ML, 2 ASRM6, AMS (mastered)
Uziel UZL-3P(C): 2 SNPPC, SRM6, 2 MG (built for Solaris)
Catapult CPLT-K2: 2 HPPC, 2 ML, 2 LMG
Battlemaster BLR-1G: 3 ERLL, 4 ML

Suboptimal variant and build on the Griffin - fragile and undergunned. You could get more firepower out of it by using a MRM40, and better durability by installing a LFE. For Scouting, 2N is somewhat better (much more SRMs), although Bushwackers trump it if you don't need jump jets. If jump jets and ballistics are your thing, Shadowhawk is the chassis to use.
Suboptimal build on the Catapult. Try a pair of heavy ballistics - UAC10s, perhaps - and MLs in your energy hardpoints (possibly stripping out arms to save some tonnage)
Battlemaster is OK. Mostly OK, at least. Some people spec them for pure range (5 ERLL or 4 LPL).

My advice: Look to getting a Bushwacker for Scouting and Marauders, Warhammers or Roughnecks for Invasion. If your drop deck tonnage in Invasion is not sitting at the max, you're doing it wrong.

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In the one invasion (siege, attacker side) that I've played, I dropped in the following order: BLR, JR7, CPLT, GRF.

Drop heaviest-to-lightest unless your team's drop caller specifically demands otherwise.

Quote

We got pretty much wrecked in that match. I know that the light and the medium are not considered to be good choices for FW. Will people make fun of me for dropping this way? And by "make fun of me" I mean: Is it possible to contribute or will it always be the case that people say something like "Dang, if we hadn't had to care for that JR7-K and that GRF-1S, we could've won the match"?

Are you doing at minimum 300 damage with each of your mechs (200 for the Jenner, since it's a light)? If not, they will criticize you for not pulling your weight - and rightfully so.

Quote

I already found out that FW is in many ways different from QP. Since up to now I mainly used energy weapons and SRMs, I think I don't have to change my weapon preferences totally. Am I right with this assumption?

You're right, but you'll have to optimize your builds better and build drop decks for specific purposes - a ranged deck is not the same as a brawling deck, and a deck optimized for hot maps is not the same as a deck optimized for neutral maps (although the latter can run on cold maps just as well).

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What about the CPLT build sketched above? I've read that HPPCs are not that popular in FW. Should I switch to LLs or ACs? I should add that so far the CPLT is the mech I felt least comfortable in during QP.

Your current Catapult has three different weapon systems with three disparate ranges. You should start by reducing that to two.

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I really enjoy the lighter and faster mechs, at least in QP. And in that massacre of an invasion I did least bad in my second mech, the JR7. With that preference, what mechs would be good choices? I have my eyes on the WLF-2.

For Invasion, you should drop assaults, heavies and mediums. If you like SRMs, then Cyclops Q (the one with 7 missile hardpoints) is great for a LFE375+6xASRM6 build. Lots of staying power, lots of firepower. Catapult A1 can be built as a miniature substitute for that, with 6xSRM-6 and a LFE 270 or 6xASRM-6 and an XL engine. I don't use the latter, too fragile for a brawler.

Edited by Horseman, 02 May 2018 - 03:51 AM.

[Langdon Alger]

Thanks a lot for your input! Before I come back to it, let me add that I knew I had to learn a lot for FP. So far I've refrained from doing FP just because I felt that my mechs were not ready yet and of course, and most of all, I were not ready yet to participate. But, when I thought that I have one mech from each type and that I am not that prone to commit the biggest mistakes any longer, I said to myself "Screw it, I'm just going to try. What bad could possibly happen?!" I'm still of this oppinion. But, I know from QP how frustrating it can be to play a match where one or two of your team simply don't contribute. And if that gets me in QP, how will it be in FP for those who waited for a game and then get stomped due to non-optimal drops and playstyles?

LikeUntoGod, on 01 May 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Use what you have and what you are used to. I like the deck, the Jenner is a good ender/Gen killer.

Add more when you can.

Thanks for your encouraging words!

Quote

No one wants LRMs or HPPC's in Faction. LRMs do have a place on a few maps in defense. But HPPCs. not so much.

[...]

I think most people will suggest that you drop some smaller weapons and go for, such as on the Battlemaster, add one more ERLL.

I will definitely work on the CPLT build. In fact, I did so yesterday and went for dual AC10. I'm still not feeling comfortable in this mech but it's already better than the HPPCs. On the BLR, I was afraid of ghost heat. But, I'll simply try to improve my shooting intelligence.

Quote

Faction Warfare is a deep rabbit hole. You can go down as far as you want to. Good luck, I also love Faction Warfare.

Sadly, the question will not be how deep I want to chase the rabbit but rather how much time I can invest. I surely won't be able to reach highly competitive levels. But, I take it to be a realistic goal that people don't hate to drop with me.

justcallme A S H, on 01 May 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

Honestly - Those builds need work and you do not have sufficient mechs to be even remotely competitive in the world that is FP.

Go read THIS THREAD, yes, all 16 pages. Fix your builds first, practice with them.

Also you need at least 8 mechs ready to go before doing FP. One with long range and the other with brawl to skirmish range. Without it, there is honestly no point and you will struggle to even break 1000 damage in it.

Thanks for your honesty, I was prepared for that. I found your thread a few weeks ago. But, I didn't notice all the information in it. So far, I'm half way through. I will most certainly get back there every now and then to get a better understanding of FP. I noticed in QP that my builds perform differently on different maps. And I always blamed it on my individual performance or, in some cases, that of my teammates. I never thought that some builds just are not suited for every map. I will take that into consideration when I think of my future drop decks.

Leone, on 01 May 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

I've a few posts but don't go over build options too much. Classically, you'll want some long range mechs for the more open maps, and some brawlers like you've got for the knife fights.

Thanks for your response. I briefly checked your thread. For someone who is an absolute beginner to FP, it seemed to be rather abstract. I'll get back to it after a few drops in invasion.

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The big thing is to drop heaviest first unless the team needs a light for capping early, or has some sneaky plan they wanna try. Second wave jenner just doesn't provide as much armour when everyone else is dropping heavies. Think in terms of totality of armour and weight of fire.

Also, much as I love lights, you gotta consider that CW is a more group oriented mode, so lights are alot harder to use since you're not usually gonna find those juicy lone targets to take down that lights excel at. You're often running rabbit duty for the larger mechs, drawing fire from a full on firing line so your team gets to breach that first trade safely. It can work, and work well, but it's alot more harrowing an prone to failure than the usual quickplay flanking you may be used to.

I've read about the drop order before. Maybe, the opposing team were surprised to find a light mech that early among our lines? When the first two or three of our team dropped light as their second mechs, I thought I could do so as well. After all, this probably says more about our team in that match than it does about the prospects of a light second drop.

Horseman, on 02 May 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

There are some mech tier lists and build lists that you might want to check as your first step to getting your builds right for FP.
[...]

Thanks for all those links. I've found and consulted MetaMechs often before, the other lists are new to me.

Quote

Suboptimal variant and build on the Griffin - fragile and undergunned. You could get more firepower out of it by using a MRM40, and better durability by installing a LFE.

Yeah, I know that the 1S is not the most popular variant. And if I were to buy my very first mech again, I'd probably go for the 2N. Back then, I liked the energy hardpoints better than the missiles.

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Battlemaster is OK. Mostly OK, at least. Some people spec them for pure range (5 ERLL or 4 LPL).

Like I said above, I was afraid of the heat penalty. Fortunately, heat management is something I should be able to learn and improve in. So I'll work on that.

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If your drop deck tonnage in Invasion is not sitting at the max, you're doing it wrong.

Speaking of max tonnage: I know that I can find the number ingame. But for the time when I'm offline and still want to work on my dropdecks, for IS it is 265, right?

Edited by Langdon Alger, 02 May 2018 - 05:28 AM.

[Horseman]

Langdon Alger, on 02 May 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

On the BLR, I was afraid of ghost heat. But, I'll simply try to improve my shooting intelligence.
Like I said above, I was afraid of the heat penalty. Fortunately, heat management is something I should be able to learn and improve in. So I'll work on that.

Fire your lasers in two groups, with a .5s pause after the first salvo ends. You won't trigger ghost heat then.

A possible workaround is to use 2-3 weapon groups with all of your lasers, set to chain fire.Press 3 triggers, fire 3 lasers, the remainder will fire 0.5s later - when you're safe from Ghost Heat

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Speaking of max tonnage: I know that I can find the number ingame. But for the time when I'm offline and still want to work on my dropdecks, for IS it is 265, right?

Yes.

Edited by Horseman, 02 May 2018 - 06:39 AM.

[Langdon Alger]

Hello again,

with the recent events and the current sale going on, I am in the position to work on my drop decks. I consulted many of the sources that you pointed out. But, before I set myself to implement my idea for the decks, just to find out or be told that they stink hard, I'd like to ask for your feedback one further time. You'll probably still tell me that these decks don't smell too good but, and that's an important point, I won't have spent too much c-bills and cluttered my mechbays with just some more QP variants.

So, for long range, I'd think of the following drop deck (all links refer to smurfy):

BLR-1G (5 ERLL, LFE 350)
WHM-6D (5 ERLL, LFE 300)
RGH-3A (5 ERLL, XL 300)
BJ-3 (3 ERLL, LFE 225, 4 JJ)

For mid range, the following two appear in both my ideas:

ANH-2A (2 UAC/10, 2 UAC/5, STD 300)
WHM-6R (2 AC/10, 4 ERML, LFE 300)

On the other two spots, I'm thinking about either

RFL-3C (2 UAC/5, 4 ERML, LFE280)
JR7-K (4 ERML, LFE 300, 2 JJ)

or

CPLT-K2 (2 AC/10, 4 ERML, XL 275)
JVN-10F (4 ERML, LFE 280)

I don't claim those ideas to be innovative in any way. Also, I'd think that neither the CPLT-K2 nor the JR7-K are the best variants to go. But, I have those things in my mechbay anyway and would like to make them work somehow.

Thanks again for any response.

Edited by Langdon Alger, 12 May 2018 - 03:33 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I've been noticing that the IS forces have been on certain maps and matches (like Sieges) starting with two assaults. Like the Battlemaster and Annihilator. That has been hard to combat.

When playing PUG FW, you will be in some mind dumbing Siege matches. No one has a plan and if they do they do not enforce it plus often others simply do their own thing. You will not go in 12 at a time but 2-3 and you will die fast. Then comes what I call the "Temple Grandin effect".

Players will walk or run willingly into death.

When playing a "team", lube up and just take it. As far as decks, I like your ideas. I used Trial Mechs for a very long time in FW. But now PGI does not allow you to keep the XP you earn on a Trail Mech.

Just jump in and see how it is. I know a guy, LikeUntoBuddha but he is in the Wolf Clan so you might meet him one day.

P.S. I love the 40% off sales. Once, they even had a 50% off one.

Question however. They used to pay 50% for a mech if you sold it back. I think that has changed.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 12 May 2018 - 03:44 AM.

[Horseman]

Langdon Alger, on 12 May 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

For mid range, the following two appear in both my ideas:

ANH-2A (2 UAC/10, 2 UAC/5, STD 300)
WHM-6R (2 AC/10, 4 ERML, LFE 300)

On the other two spots, I'm thinking about either

RFL-3C (2 UAC/5, 4 ERML, LFE280)
JR7-K (4 ERML, LFE 300, 2 JJ)

or

CPLT-K2 (2 AC/10, 4 ERML, XL 275)
JVN-10F (4 ERML, LFE 280)

I don't claim those ideas to be innovative in any way. Also, I'd think that neither the CPLT-K2 nor the JR7-K are the best variants to go. But, I have those things in my mechbay anyway and would like to make them work somehow.

Thanks again for any response.

On the Warhammer, try to install 2xUAC10+4xML instead. .
The K2 can be built as a Gauss platform or with one or more AC20s (boomcat).

[Renfis]

I know it's an old thread, but I would probably run the Warhammer like this:
https://mwo.smurfy-n...24668853fde19b1

(I dont have that Warhammer, so haven't tried it myself, and I haven't been actively playing for quite a while. Trying to get back in the game now though)

LE300 with 2xLBX10 and 4xMLAS, make sure to bring a coolshot for the sticky brawls. This is more or less how I run my Marauder 3R and it's probably one of the mechs that performs best both in FP and QP for me.

Aside from that, good on you for trying out FP, we need more people playing invasion!