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Mwo World Championship 2018 Pre-Season Map Pool Feedback.

Dev Post MWOWC 2018

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#21 Geg

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:46 AM

Canyon or Tourmaline are great, but they really need to be limit in some capacity they just keep showing up over and over again. The maps I would like to see are:

Rubellite
Mining
Frozen
Caustic

#22 Volkodav

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:42 AM

Canyon Network and tired of two championships already.
Tourmaline Desert - for balance

Polar Highlands - not new, but in the previous MWOWC there were not many chances to see him.). It is possible to replacement for FrozenCity/

Grim Plexus
TerraTerma
Caustic Valley - for new maps


And we need a new maps for game.

Edited by Volkodav, 08 May 2018 - 07:56 AM.


#23 Arend

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:55 AM

There should be a bigger Pool of Maps thats for sure, but more important than Maps is the Tournament Mode, last 2 Versions had both massive flaws, its not fun to play 100s of Matches where 75% of the Time the Opponent does not show up and its also no fun to sit for Hours in a Queue and wait/hope that some Opponents show up!

Either make this like a Soccer Worldchampionship with several Divisions of 4-6 Teams who each have to play against eachother, with a seeding systems, so that the Top Teams don't end in the same Divisions in the Qualifying, seeding should be determined by Last Years MRBC, BfM, MWOWC Results and Player Stats of the Teams!

Or there should be fixed Days/Hours where the Comp-Queue is open, so that the Teams have a Guideline when to play!

#24 lpmagic

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:01 AM

this won't be popular......
random map selection (yes ALL of them), now wait, don't skin me alive yet.....
because, it will require teams to come up with drop decks that mimic OVERALL good play, not so specific to a maps strengths and weaknesses, but it focuses the play on skill a bit more than otherwise.
at the very least when a map has been played drop it out of the ban process, too many drops on the same map make for boring watching and stale tactics......
other than that, Go straight tonnage, best of 3.
Make "Tourney days" where matches are required, allow teams to show up and get stuff out of the way.
shorten the tourney immeasurably, finals in December? start in late August or early September and have concentrated play, make it less a grind and more of a competition.

#25 Windscape

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:22 AM

Canyon: balanced.
Tourmaline: balanced.
Rubelite: new, unique.
Mining: small map allows fast action, but also has many platforms to allow ranged play.
Frozen: not the best in map design (bring back old frozen pls), but still much better than any other cold map.
Solaris City: pls make sure to make both sides as balanced as possible. I think the inclusion of SC will help advertise MWO as it continues this whole MWO S7 sctick.

Frozen could be switched for SC if SC turns out to be a good comp map, if it is banning, but keep 6 of it is RNG. Auto ban a map that was already played for more variety.



#26 Colonel ONeill

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:39 AM

View Postlpmagic, on 08 May 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

random map selection (yes ALL of them), now wait, don't skin me alive yet.....
because, it will require teams to come up with drop decks that mimic OVERALL good play, not so specific to a maps strengths and weaknesses, but it focuses the play on skill a bit more than otherwise.


It's the opposite. Let the players choose their Mechs as best as they can. That shows you the skill and teamwork the best. Otherwise you can just field 4/4/0/0 or even 8 Lights and do something like the potato drop 1 in MRBC.

#27 lpmagic

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

View PostColonel ONeill, on 08 May 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:


It's the opposite. Let the players choose their Mechs as best as they can. That shows you the skill and teamwork the best. Otherwise you can just field 4/4/0/0 or even 8 Lights and do something like the potato drop 1 in MRBC.

not if you have tonnage drops, or are specific to 2/2/2/2.......

though the knuckle buster in drop 1 for MRBC is a cluster, it is usually a quick and exciting cluster :)

#28 Y E O N N E

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:14 AM

View PostColonel ONeill, on 08 May 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:


It's the opposite. Let the players choose their Mechs as best as they can. That shows you the skill and teamwork the best. Otherwise you can just field 4/4/0/0 or even 8 Lights and do something like the potato drop 1 in MRBC.


As opposed to regurgitating a rehearsed performance?

There are different skills in this game that should be exercised beyond the ability to execute on a plan with only minute differences in said execution. You should know that.

#29 Colonel ONeill

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:39 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 08 May 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

As opposed to regurgitating a rehearsed performance?

Well, if you have a fix Mech because you can drop on any map (as it is in quickplay) you have exactly your 'regurgitating a rehearsed performance'. One team might have a big advantage, because their Mechs simply work better on the random map.

If you do know what map you gonna get you can discuss with your team what general strategy you wanna play or what you expect from your opponent. And then you can adjust to that.

Just to give you an example: You even use different Dropdecks based on the side you spawn on a map. And at least the topteams do use multiple strategies per map. That means you have probably 4-10 setups/strategies per map. Sure they might be similar, but if you wanna prepare 5 maps it's quite some work/time to be prepared. In my opinon, random maps gonna lead towards boring gameplay. I.e. just take some laservomit, works on every map (sounds familiar from quickplay, right?)

#30 lpmagic

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:49 AM

View PostColonel ONeill, on 08 May 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

Well, if you have a fix Mech because you can drop on any map (as it is in quickplay) you have exactly your 'regurgitating a rehearsed performance'. One team might have a big advantage, because their Mechs simply work better on the random map.

If you do know what map you gonna get you can discuss with your team what general strategy you wanna play or what you expect from your opponent. And then you can adjust to that.

Just to give you an example: You even use different Dropdecks based on the side you spawn on a map. And at least the topteams do use multiple strategies per map. That means you have probably 4-10 setups/strategies per map. Sure they might be similar, but if you wanna prepare 5 maps it's quite some work/time to be prepared. In my opinon, random maps gonna lead towards boring gameplay. I.e. just take some laservomit, works on every map (sounds familiar from quickplay, right?)

"might" is the operative word here. Good teams "will" have good decks, no matter what, lesser teams "might" have a chance if they luck in to a map and spawn side that favors their particular strategy.....I've been around long enough to know how it goes at the top, but I also know that strange things have happened and teams that shouldn't win, sometimes do for really odd reasons. if you make everything identifiable and plannable, you set up the best teams to have no curve balls, and that, that is not as good for lower end teams who might take advantage of a nice big fat sloppy curve ball every once in a while. There is NO way to even the odds, top teams are just more talented, I honestly feel like the best way to fight that is give everyone random options somewhere along the lines. once the "Meta" is firmly established for the MWOWC it rarely changes up much from beginning to end, more changes means more opportunities for mess ups, and or, more opportunity for the skill gap to assert itself as it normally does.

#31 Colonel ONeill

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:26 PM

To me this sounds as you wanna introduce some randomness just to even it out, or punish preparation. But no matter how you gonna change the rules, everybody is going to consider to copycat from the best teams or what has beaten them. I guess you just try to get more entertaining battles, so that's good, I just doubt that randomness is the way to do it, as all teams gonna adopt after a while.
And I think this topic is aimed on the maps itself and not how they gonna be selected.

#32 poopenshire

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:34 PM

My opinion as a comp player, increase the maps in rotation, but balance them.

I know myself and many other will be willing to drop in a Test environment with different spawn points and cap point locations to optimize the maps.

These don't ever have to make it into the release build. We just think more maps are better if we are constructive and pitch in with ideas to improve them.

#33 Daidachi

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:30 PM

The time between signups and start should be long enough that for each region 'divisions' can be created, as mentioned above by Arend. The key would be ensuring that top teams do not all get placed in the same pool initially.

In addition this allows shoutcasting to be timetabled - expecting only two guys to shoutcast not just the majority of NA matches, but have a hope of casting any of the other regions whilst holding down jobs is not realistic.

Ideally:

Week 1 - signups open, tournament supporter pack goes live for ordering
Week 4 - signups close
Week 5 - internal discussions about who to place where based on signups begin
Week 6 - Take preliminary seeding to referees who can provide feedback based on previous performance and personal experience.
Week 7 - Announce seeding and timeframe for matches to begin/end
Week 10 - Intro of tourny client with patch update.

#34 Unit 86

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:39 PM

View PostChris Lowrey, on 07 May 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:


Last Season's Map Pool consisted of:
  • Canyon Network
  • Tourmaline Desert


I had a wierd itch telling me something was off with this post so I tried to correct some facts.
That said I think it's safe to assume NOBODY wants to see Canyon and Tourmaline ever again.

#35 Windscape

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:03 PM

View PostUnit 86, on 08 May 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:


I had a wierd itch telling me something was off with this post so I tried to correct some facts.
That said I think it's safe to assume NOBODY wants to see Canyon and Tourmaline ever again.


People dont mind it if its used in small numbers, but the maps can be hated when those are the only ones selected.

#36 Torrn

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 10:32 AM

Best of three/five with maps which where played once being taken out of the rotation for the second/thirds match would be amazing as a general feature for the best of 12!

In general I would like to see less of tourmaline and canyon, we have all been playing these maps since day one in comp and in two WCs, tourmaline still has buggy corners and invisible walls. If these maps where limited to once per best of three, that would be fine (see above) otherwise I would prefere to not have them included at all!

Good Comp Maps: (Somewhat balanced sides, some tactical depth, etc..)
Viridian Bog
Polar Highlands
Rubellite Oasis
Terra Therma
Grim Plexus
Frozen City
Caustic Valley
Mining Collective


Bad Comp Maps: (poorly balanced or bugged or both)
Alpine Peaks
River City
Forest Colony
Crimson Strait
HPG Manifold

#37 lpmagic

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 11:52 AM

View PostColonel ONeill, on 08 May 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

To me this sounds as you wanna introduce some randomness just to even it out, or punish preparation. But no matter how you gonna change the rules, everybody is going to consider to copycat from the best teams or what has beaten them. I guess you just try to get more entertaining battles, so that's good, I just doubt that randomness is the way to do it, as all teams gonna adopt after a while.
And I think this topic is aimed on the maps itself and not how they gonna be selected.

punish preparation? no, quite the opposite in fact, it takes twice as much preparation to plan for all the maps instead of one. That is simply a fact. I would like to not have everything simply streamlined and so EASY to prepare for. If randomness evens things out a bit, then that is a good thing, just having the same maps, match in and match out, has proven to be boring, and requires no one to change tactics and or drop decks. That is MORE preparation in every single way.......

#38 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 07:43 PM

Purely from the map perspective:

Tourmaline
Canyon

I know they are old hat, but they are two of the most balanced maps in the game, which is integral to good competitive scenes imo.

HPG/Alpine need some LOD polishing but honestly outside of that, think they are strong maps that allow for some interesting tactics.

Mining, not a fave of mine, but another of same ilk as HPG/Alpine.

Rubelite and Frozen are also worth bringing.

Matches should be best of 3 during the open season imo, with map banning and maps removed from the subsequent rounds once utilized. Whomever chose in drop 1, gives way to the opposing team in the match up. Lowest average match score picks map 3 if it's a tie going in. Elo per drop (not overall match).

Not map related -- make name and number of teams queued be unseen by the teams. You just enter the queue and jump in. Mayhaps give an "average time to match" kind of thing to give folks an inkling, but nothing more than that. Let divisions shake out from the open round and go from there potentially (if you wanna go that deep and keep people involved an interested), or just take top 12 again (using a best of 5 and then best of 7 format).

#39 Marius Evander

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 01:17 AM

I would like more maps to be played, also this thread is hidden, not even stickied ? but you need to balance the cap points better, Theta on crimson straight needs moving futher north maybe into the d5 ditch or c5 highground city

#40 Stonefalcon

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 04:11 PM

Make the map random and allow team leaders to ban chassis.






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