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Somone Explain To Me What This Means For Jenners Please


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#1 Darian DelFord

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:48 PM

From the Patch Notes

Quote


The following 'Mechs have had some of their Arm Structure and Max Armor Points re-distributed from their Arm Locations into their Torso locations:
  • Jenner
  • Jenner IIC
  • Cicada
  • Jagermech
  • Stalker
All 'Mechs in a player's inventory affected by this change will have their armor re-set to the stock values.


PLEASE CHECK YOUR 'MECHS BEFORE YOU DROP!
In the event that the stock values would render the 'Mech over tonnage, the 'Mech would be flagged as an invalid build. Both of these can be manually re-adjusted in the 'Mechlab.

Structure / Max Armor Redistribution Design Notes:
All 'Mechwarrior games have attempted to honor as many of the core mechanics found in the very descriptive Battletech Universe as possible. But sometimes these mechanics do not translate well into the First Person Simulation setting. Among those mechanics are the core structure/armor distribution rules and how that relates to the 'Mech art. In Battletech, there is never a distinction between individual body locations and the art that represents them. Within those game environments, the chance to hit an arm location is always equal, regardless of how the art depicts the 'Mechs. And as such you are just as likely to hit the arms on a Jenner as you are the arms of a Mandrill. This is something that simply does not translate one-to-one into a 3D Shooter environment. As such, many 'Mechs depicted in the Battletech universe as having very short and stubby arms often, as a result, see overall larger torso geometry, as well as having hit locations with a pool of health much greater then they need to before they often find their torso's being destroyed within the context of MechWarrior Online. So while a Jenner in the Table Top game may see 28% of hits go to arm locations, while 47% go to torsos, In our game, this could be skewed as only 20% of hits go to the arms, and 55% of hits go to the torsos when accounting for the physical shots against the 'Mech model's art.
We want to see an improvement to this to assist those 'Mechs that often do see their art come with very stubby appendages that often leads to more prominent torso locations while staying true to the overall structure and armor distributions depicted within the Battletech Lore. In the 'Mechs above, we are shifting a number of their base arm structure points from the arms and into torso locations and with it, their total available "Max armor." For this initial roll-out, we are only going to alter five 'Mechs across all weight classes that have seen smaller arms result in larger torso locations. Each of them has had their structure and armor re-distributed in a way that best compliments the needs of the physical 'Mech geometry while maintaining the same overall health pool. We will be monitoring this change closely and will consider other 'Mechs getting a similar treatment to them in a future patch depending on the impact of this change on the targeted chassis'.



So from what my intoxicated brain is reading... is they are moving armor and structure from the ARMS of the Jenners into the Torso's?

So in my brain this is saying my arms are getting a reduction while my torso's are getting a boost??????

Edited by Darian DelFord, 11 May 2018 - 06:49 PM.


#2 Vanguard836

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:50 PM

Correct, they're doing this to try and adjust for the arm to torso size for certain mechs.

#3 Glaive-

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:04 PM

The lore warrior side of me just ever so slightly bothered by this change
But the Stalker fanatic side is freakn' STOKED


I actually hope they do this for the Uziel, just as long as they don't overdo it.

Edited by armyunit, 11 May 2018 - 07:05 PM.


#4 TheMadTypist

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:20 PM

Considering how often my Jenner IIC's arms fall off I'm not sure how to feel about this change.

#5 Nightbird

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:22 PM

View PostTheMadTypist, on 11 May 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

Considering how often my Jenner IIC's arms fall off I'm not sure how to feel about this change.


Yeah, Jenner IIC doesn't need this. Regular Jenner does.

#6 Darian DelFord

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:56 PM

View PostVanguard836, on 11 May 2018 - 06:50 PM, said:

Correct, they're doing this to try and adjust for the arm to torso size for certain mechs.


I was afraid of that.


View PostTheMadTypist, on 11 May 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

Considering how often my Jenner IIC's arms fall off I'm not sure how to feel about this change.



I agree


View PostNightbird, on 11 May 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:


Yeah, Jenner IIC doesn't need this. Regular Jenner does.


I dunno about that.



They just never listen. Just bump the damn torso quirks up to the Oxide and the Jenner will be fine. The problem is since the hit box change we have had to strip from other area's to get the heat sink we need. The arms is one of those areas. Since the great "volumetric scaling, the arms are much easier to take off.

Lets face it, it's not like Jenners are really an issue anymore. Just bump the damn torso armor/structure quirks like we have been asking for, for years now... and the Jenner will be fine.


Specifically 1:15 seconds.. but in general the main issue.


Edited by Darian DelFord, 11 May 2018 - 07:59 PM.


#7 JediPanther

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:35 PM

I rarely ever use any of the jenners any more. I doubt this will improve my IS jenner use. My clan ones mostly are trophy mechs. the only real change that would help the IS jenners is going back to their original size. The clans Jeners are just sol. When it comes to using them i'd rather go IS as they are smaller (sort of) which means harder to hit. Clans have their 315 cap but that doesn't mean do do when every thing can still hit the CT.

As much as I like the Oxide my D (F) and D (S) get far more use as I hate being ammo dependent having to lose a match just because I had no other weapon or ammo for my only weapon. Nothing worse that being in a skirmish match 11-11 score face staring at an enemy mech unable to kill it because your weapon is dry and they are too.

#8 5th Fedcom Rat

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:45 PM

View PostJediPanther, on 11 May 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

Nothing worse that being in a skirmish match 11-11 score face staring at an enemy mech unable to kill it because your weapon is dry and they are too.


Lurking spectators always come alive with giggles when this happens. Trying to ram the other guy to death with a light brings out the Robot Wars side of the game.

#9 JediPanther

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:59 PM

View Post5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 May 2018 - 09:45 PM, said:


Lurking spectators always come alive with giggles when this happens. Trying to ram the other guy to death with a light brings out the Robot Wars side of the game.

Yep. I've been both pilot and spectator in these match endings. the game should have an auto detect that automatically plays the benny hill theme so both the 2 remaining pilots and 22 spectators can watch the demolition derby of two weaponless mechs bounce off each other and where everyone wishes collision damage was more and knock downs were back in the game. Your only hope is waiting for the tie on time out or that one of them has one last strike to do a dual kill. Funny that tag counts as a weapon too. I've done that as well with a tag-narc troll locust build. I think it was the 3s.

#10 LordNothing

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:59 PM

it means less st cleavage, but you are going to loose your arms a lot more.

#11 Tier5 Kerensky

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 01:15 AM

View PostTheMadTypist, on 11 May 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

Considering how often my Jenner IIC's arms fall off I'm not sure how to feel about this change.


Yeah they are rather flagile, but so is the CT.

#12 STEF_

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 01:57 AM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 11 May 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

From the Patch Notes

[/i]

So from what my intoxicated brain is reading... is they are moving armor and structure from the ARMS of the Jenners into the Torso's?

So in my brain this is saying my arms are getting a reduction while my torso's are getting a boost??????

yep, it is.

I imagine Chris Genius hasn't seen all jenner main weapons are in arms..... Have fun with those couple of srms in CT, at least until he'll nerf even those ones :D

#13 Darian DelFord

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:00 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 11 May 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

it means less st cleavage, but you are going to loose your arms a lot more.


Which is where the main part of our weapons are located. The F exclusively

View PostTeer Kerensky, on 12 May 2018 - 01:15 AM, said:

Yeah they are rather flagile, but so is the CT.


Hence all we have been asking for is structure/armor quirks to the torso, they keep dancing around the damn problem and want to know why everyone thinks they are idiots.

View PostJediPanther, on 11 May 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

I rarely ever use any of the jenners any more. I doubt this will improve my IS jenner use. My clan ones mostly are trophy mechs. the only real change that would help the IS jenners is going back to their original size. The clans Jeners are just sol. When it comes to using them i'd rather go IS as they are smaller (sort of) which means harder to hit. Clans have their 315 cap but that doesn't mean do do when every thing can still hit the CT.

As much as I like the Oxide my D (F) and D (S) get far more use as I hate being ammo dependent having to lose a match just because I had no other weapon or ammo for my only weapon. Nothing worse that being in a skirmish match 11-11 score face staring at an enemy mech unable to kill it because your weapon is dry and they are too.


Agreed. Personally I love my Jenners, its just a shame they are trash now. This is not going to help them.

#14 MechaBattler

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:06 PM

Well the idea makes sense. That if it has small arms, it'd have less structure and armor proportionally. It makes sense. But from a balance perspective. It makes you wonder why not just buff them with quirks? I mean it really works for most of the Cicadas.

Theoretically if they're smaller, they're less likely to get hit. But since we have quirks anyway, it's a little unnecessary.

#15 Azure Kit

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:20 PM

View PostMechaBattler, on 12 May 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Well the idea makes sense. That if it has small arms, it'd have less structure and armor proportionally. It makes sense. But from a balance perspective. It makes you wonder why not just buff them with quirks? I mean it really works for most of the Cicadas.

Theoretically if they're smaller, they're less likely to get hit. But since we have quirks anyway, it's a little unnecessary.

In the Jager's case people always go for your STs to XL-Check you anyway, so I don't think you'll feel much difference in that scenario. Your STs might even hold on a little bit longer Posted Image

#16 MechaBattler

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 04:22 PM

View PostAzure Kit, on 12 May 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

In the Jager's case people always go for your STs to XL-Check you anyway, so I don't think you'll feel much difference in that scenario. Your STs might even hold on a little bit longer Posted Image


True and it's not like you can actually use those arms to block too many shots. Perhaps they should put it on the PTS.

Edited by MechaBattler, 12 May 2018 - 04:22 PM.


#17 Alexander of Macedon

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:03 PM

Oh boy, time to pull out my good ol' STD Stalkers again.

#18 Tier5 Kerensky

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 07:34 PM

Talking about Stalkers, I wonder if it will just transter armor from arms to to CT. Because I nearly always die in my Stalker to having both STs blown off.

Extra armor on ST on the other hand would be useful.

#19 LordNothing

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 10:00 PM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 12 May 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

Which is where the main part of our weapons are located. The F exclusively


you have to ask what you want to loose more. half your firepower, or your mech? its one of those cases of survivorship bias. the problem with the jenner isnt the tiny arms, its the massive torso. i cant recall the last time i lost an arm in a jenner, it just doesnt happen enough where i really depend on those quirks. most jenner deaths are do to torso hits and thats where the bonus armor needs to go.

#20 Brain Cancer

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 10:42 PM

It means anything that saturates the sides of these things is going to reap weapon arms with ease. Streaks and most missile types from the side, actually.

I especially feel sorry for Jagermechs. They're plenty big enough to saw the arms off of without too much trouble, and this makes delimbing one that much easier.





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