50 replies to this topic

[Signal27]

So now that HareBrain Scheme's most recent incarnation of BattleTech has been released and we've all had a chance to digest it for a little bit, I was just curious to know everyone's impressions of the Aurigan Reach/Arano Restoration? Do you even think it should be considered official canon in the universe?

My own initial reaction was that they are written up perhaps a little too directly to be the "good guy" faction. But I can totally understand that, at least for this initial rebirth of turn-based BattleTech. It's probably to get players new and old of all stripes more invested in the game and storyline since they can unequivocally feel like they are the protagonists of this story instead of inserting anything that might cast that into ambiguity and thus turn some players against the faction that is to be their main employers throughout the main storyline of the game.

Overall, though, the way I thought of both the Restoration and Directorate reminded me of various South American banana republics and how turmoil has flared up in that region throughout the years. This, admittedly, was because the Reach seems to be a heavily Spanish influenced region of space in terms of the NPCs that are from the Reach and the aesthetics. Lady Arano herself and one of the main antagonists of the story, Espinosa, have distinctly Spanish accents - or at least it sounds that way to me. And this is a genuinely interesting direction to take for introducing a new faction to the BattleTech universe because they've already done Japanese, Chinese, German, English, and Arabic influenced factions of the Inner Sphere.

But if we ever continue the story of the Arano Restoration I'd like them to take a more nuanced and "gray" depiction, just as all the other factions of the BattleTech universe have become. I'd be willing to accept that Kamea Arano has nothing but the purest of intentions and truly cares for the citizens of the Aurigan Reach in her heart, but a few of the Founding Houses which the game introduces us to and puts so much emphasis on winning the game could present some unscrupulous and even downright antagonistic forces that thrusts the Reach into the eternal pissing contests the rest of the Inner Sphere and Periphery powers continually get into.

I'd be fine if the Arano Restoration became official BattleTech canon. Although I wonder if they're just going to be a flash-in-the-pan of the 3025 era and will collapse in on itself by later years, or if their future is going to be further written into BattleTech canon for future eras?

What do you think?

Edited by Signal27, 15 May 2018 - 11:58 AM.

[Metus regem]

/shrug
I'm fine either way, my thoughts on the game how ever are as follows:


After three full runs of the game now, if I could space Kamea I would in a heart beat.... Atleast I've figured out how to mod things so that I can skip the prologue...

I mean thinking about that era FedSun there is no way they would let their Mexico The Taurian Concordat pull the stuff that they do... Not to mention how the Directoret gets a load of fresh Combine and Cappie mechs... You just know that the FedSuns would've been in there so fast.

[Signal27]

Metus regem, on 15 May 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

if I could space Kamea I would in a heart beat....

Just out of curiosity, why?

As for me, I'm afraid I didn't find her particularly endearing either, no matter how much she whined about the treatment of "her people" and doing everything she does for them. Real life politicians have really soured me to that cliche'd line spouted all throughout human history. In fact, I kind of found her to be a "spoiled princess" towards the beginning and middle of the game.
[spoiler ahead]
Now I'm willing to accept that she truly does grow as a character the moment she liberates the prison camp and encounters all the suffering of "her people" first-hand as well as the realities of war. A war she re-ignited (though admittedly her Uncle kicked off to begin with). But truth be told, I don't care how she gets written up after this first episode: If she truly becomes a benevolent leader or she becomes outright tyrannical because of the corrupting nature of power.

Quote

I mean thinking about that era FedSun there is no way they would let their Mexico The Taurian Concordat pull the stuff that they do... Not to mention how the Directoret gets a load of fresh Combine and Cappie mechs... You just know that the FedSuns would've been in there so fast.

To be fair, you get a shitload of contracts from the FedSun against the Taurians if you ignore the main storyline and go floating around Taurian/Davion space.

[MechaBattler]

The Taurians are the space Mexicans, aye? :3

[Tordin]

I had to skim some parts of your post to avoid to much spoilers. I have come to the part in the game regarding certain "bull" people trying to act mighty and all... So have some capaign work left.

Anyway.
It should all be considered canon in this newish setting, because why create something like whats happening in BT when it cant be intervowed into existing canon. Waaaaste of time. and just a dagger in the heart for those who grow to love the new story and history.
Im all for canonising everything BATTLETECH, Mech Warrior, Mech Commander, Mech Assault, TT wahtever. As long as it makes sense.
Retcon parts of it all that conflicted, bring a council of the creators, loremasters and fans of BT to decide onto what works, is fair to certain factions/ characters/ mechs etcetc.

I havent read a single book though so Im not THAT into the lore. All it seems that the Dark Ages werent popular. I read about that a bit. Seeeemed that the Rasalhague Dominion kinda retook the culture back more and more, erased the clan part more and more. Correct me if Im wrong. I hope FRR once will rise up as a respected 6th "house" I also hope the Capellans and of course the Magistracy and Arano rise up and will dominate much more in the future.
I would be VERY curious on how they hopefully will canonise the Aranos into the canon and lore alredy existing. Hopefully with own books and even new games ( TT and MW etc) describing them and fleshing them out more.

How will the Aranos react to the clan invasion, jihad, the republic, dark ages and beyond?

[Metus regem]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, why?

As for me, I'm afraid I didn't find her particularly endearing either, no matter how much she whined about the treatment of "her people" and doing everything she does for them. Real life politicians have really soured me to that cliche'd line spouted all throughout human history. In fact, I kind of found her to be a "spoiled princess" towards the beginning and middle of the game.
[spoiler ahead]
Now I'm willing to accept that she truly does grow as a character the moment she liberates the prison camp and encounters all the suffering of "her people" first-hand as well as the realities of war. A war she re-ignited (though admittedly her Uncle kicked off to begin with). But truth be told, I don't care how she gets written up after this first episode: If she truly becomes a benevolent leader or she becomes outright tyrannical because of the corrupting nature of power.

For me, having done the dirty work of politicians (read been in combat, I flew an AH-64D in Iraq), I have a very, very dim view of them, especially the work I would be assigned when they came to "tour the troops"... My gunner and myself were often tasked with flying escort.

That being said, I found her too marry sue if that makes any sense, I also would've liked the option to leave her on the ship, where she should've been on a few missions, as she would've been too tempting a target for the Directoret forces to ignore... like to the point where they should've ignored my Mercs and killed her, thus killing the restoration with her.

Quote

To be fair, you get a shitload of contracts from the FedSun against the Taurians if you ignore the main storyline and go floating around Taurian/Davion space.

It's where I hang out most of the time... I'm up to Panzyr on my 4th run, with max Davion standing... Not to mention a ton of assault mechs...

MechaBattler, on 15 May 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

The Taurians are the space Mexicans, aye? :3

Well really, when you look at how the FedSuns and the Taurians really act with one another, it is very similar to the USA and Mexico... well pre-Trump that is.

[Signal27]

Metus regem, on 15 May 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

That being said, I found her too marry sue if that makes any sense,

That makes perfect sense.

[Metus regem]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

That makes perfect sense.

I mean in my (both gaming and real world) experience, politicians are never as skilled as hardened veterans in a combat role, yet some how Kamea is... hell she is better trained than you are at the start of the game...

[Signal27]

Metus regem, on 15 May 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

I mean in my (both gaming and real world) experience, politicians are never as skilled as hardened veterans in a combat role, yet some how Kamea is... hell she is better trained than you are at the start of the game...

I agree with you, but at the same time I think I was was just able to "go along with it." Princess Leia went from damsel in distress to blaster-wielding badass in the original trilogy, after all. But now that I think about it, Leia had the time span between the first movie and the next two to learn how to use that blaster and be a better help to the Rebellion. But now that I continue to think about THAT, Kamea probably had enough time between her weeks of picking out dresses and attending ballroom dances (and whatever the hell else space-royalty does in the BT universe) to attend mech-driver's-ed at least one weekend out of each month like an Army reservist. But I understand that doing politician stuff full-time shouldn't leave her much room to become a mechwarrior badass in her spare time. But on the OTHER hand (I know that's a lot of "buts" and I keep flip-flopping on this, but I'm trying to look at this from all angles), I understand the BattleTech universe was rife with many other personalities who are noble aristocracy yet find the time to become ace battlemech pilots while juggling affairs of state (Theodore Kurita comes to mind), long before Kamea Arano was even a notion in anybody's mind.

[MechaBattler]

I equate Kamae's upbringing similar to a Feudal Lord. Trained from youth in all things a lord needs. Helps when you have a veteran to aid in the combat training. It'd be like if our politicians used combat vets to train their children from the time they're old enough to hold a gun. But even if they're from a military family, chances are good they could pull strings to keep them out of combat, so I doubt they would go to that extreme.

But I did find her annoying for the most part. She seem pretty one note. I often opted not to say anything in the dialogue scenes because it felt so forced.

I would love to see a more sandbox mode DLC.

[Metus regem]

MechaBattler, on 15 May 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

I equate Kamae's upbringing similar to a Feudal Lord. Trained from youth in all things a lord needs. Helps when you have a veteran to aid in the combat training. It'd be like if our politicians used combat vets to train their children from the time they're old enough to hold a gun. But even if they're from a military family, chances are good they could pull strings to keep them out of combat, so I doubt they would go to that extreme.

But I did find her annoying for the most part. She seem pretty one note. I often opted not to say anything in the dialogue scenes because it felt so forced.

I would love to see a more sandbox mode DLC.

Me too, I'd love to see other ops we could undertake in DLC.... perhaps work for the other side.

[MechaBattler]

I was kinda hoping we would get more RPG elements. I know it sounds weird. But something more akin to Fallout games. Though the meaningless dialogue choices in Battletech was a sharp reminder of what I didn't like from Fallout 4.

[Signal27]

MechaBattler, on 15 May 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

I would love to see a more sandbox mode DLC.

Yes. They don't need to tell us another galaxy-affecting epic tale of space aristocracies pissing on each other. Several smaller stories with lower stakes, probably just one or a few minor houses getting into a slap-fight with some other minor houses, all stretched out across each major faction we can visit on our current map, would be something I'd really look forward to.

Metus regem said:

Me too, I'd love to see other ops we could undertake in DLC.... perhaps work for the other side.

(WARNING: Below text contains a spoiler that is revealed late in the main plot)

If you mean the Directorate by "the other side", I would at least like to get a more complete picture on their side of the story and why Espinosa thought it was such a great idea to rebel against the Aurigan Coalition (and what exactly was the state of affairs when he decided to take over), and how he was able to present it as such a fantastic idea so as to flip a big enough portion of the Reach's military to stage a successful coup. I'd also like to get more insight as to why they thought a false flag operation was a such a great idea to stake the whole damn future of the Directorate on. If they don't explain, then Espinosa is nothing more than a mustache-twirling eeeeeevil emperor who is evil for evil's sake so that Mary Sue Arano could step up and destroy a two dimensional cardboard cutout of a character that everybody can agree was Hit ler incarnate. I'd prefer something a tad more nuanced than that. Even if Espinosa is still universally reviled by the player base, we would at least see why the "bad guy" thought he was honestly doing some good.

Edited by Signal27, 15 May 2018 - 02:10 PM.

[Signal27]

MechaBattler, on 15 May 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

I was kinda hoping we would get more RPG elements. I know it sounds weird. But something more akin to Fallout games. Though the meaningless dialogue choices in Battletech was a sharp reminder of what I didn't like from Fallout 4.

I like to think the game we got now is the "base platform" they plan to build upon in the future. Meaning that hopefully, future DLC will indeed have better RPG elements that have actual consequences to the choices we make.

[Metus regem]

MechaBattler, on 15 May 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

I was kinda hoping we would get more RPG elements. I know it sounds weird. But something more akin to Fallout games. Though the meaningless dialogue choices in Battletech was a sharp reminder of what I didn't like from Fallout 4.

Tell me about it... the best Fallout game to date, has been Fallout 2, your choices there actually have an effect... I once depopulated New Reno completely and a new society took over, turning it into a utopia.

What I would've loved for HBS battletech would've been to be able to have a major effect on the stage such as work enough for FedSuns against the Taurians enough and the FedSuns annex them... that would've been neat.

[process]

I've probably got a few dozen hours in, and I can say that the story is the least compelling part of the game. Well, besides the load times and lag spikes. The characters have about as much personality as you can get through recurring sound bites and apparently no-consequence text-based dialogue boxes. It's not even bad, it's simply dull.

Could just be me. Despite my nostalgia for the mechs and PC games, I've never really found Battletech lore particularly interesting.

[Signal27]

Metus regem, on 15 May 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

What I would've loved for HBS battletech would've been to be able to have a major effect on the stage such as work enough for FedSuns against the Taurians enough and the FedSuns annex them... that would've been neat.

While I'd be cool with that, I honestly don't think HBS has the guts to do something as canon-affecting as that. Half of the BattleTech lore-fiends would be whipped up into a frenzy.

process, on 15 May 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

I've probably got a few dozen hours in, and I can say that the story is the least compelling part of the game. Well, besides the load times and lag spikes. The characters have about as much personality as you can get through recurring sound bites and apparently no-consequence text-based dialogue boxes. It's not even bad, it's simply dull.

Could just be me. Despite my nostalgia for the mechs and PC games, I've never really found Battletech lore particularly interesting.

Nah it's not just you. Even though I kicked off this topic and enjoy discussing lore in detail, I also get a kick out of pointing out some of the more ridiculous aspects of the BattleTech universe. I mean, just the fact everybody in the galaxy suddenly thought lapsing back into feudalistic governments was a great idea is enough to make me not take anything too seriously from the start.

Edited by Signal27, 15 May 2018 - 02:40 PM.

[evilauthor]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 02:07 PM, said:

Yes. They don't need to tell us another galaxy-affecting epic tale of space aristocracies pissing on each other. Several smaller stories with lower stakes, probably just one or a few minor houses getting into a slap-fight with some other minor houses, all stretched out across each major faction we can visit on our current map, would be something I'd really look forward to.



(WARNING: Below text contains a spoiler that is revealed late in the main plot)

If you mean the Directorate by "the other side", I would at least like to get a more complete picture on their side of the story and why Espinosa thought it was such a great idea to rebel against the Aurigan Coalition (and what exactly was the state of affairs when he decided to take over), and how he was able to present it as such a fantastic idea so as to flip a big enough portion of the Reach's military to stage a successful coup. I'd also like to get more insight as to why they thought a false flag operation was a such a great idea to stake the whole damn future of the Directorate on. If they don't explain, then Espinosa is nothing more than a mustache-twirling eeeeeevil emperor who is evil for evil's sake so that Mary Sue Arano could step up and destroy a two dimensional cardboard cutout of a character that everybody can agree was Hit ler incarnate. I'd prefer something a tad more nuanced than that. Even if Espinosa is still universally reviled by the player base, we would at least see why the "bad guy" thought he was honestly doing some good.

If I had to guess, Espinosa had a bad case of...
a) Ends Justifies the Means.
Paranoia (not for himself, but for the Coalition)
c) I know What's Best and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong
d) No understanding of Soft Power.

Before the coup, the Aurigan Coalition was in an economic slump, but things weren't nearly as bad as Espinosa believed they were. But there was no convincing Espinosa of that, so he decided to pull a coup if Kamea wouldn't implement his policies. Which of course created the civil war which drastically weakened the Coalition, the very thing he wanted to avoid.

Truth be told, there probably quite a bit of "grey" in Kamea's Restoration, if not with Kamea herself, then certainly with some of her supporters. You only have to read between the lines of some of the random Restoration Missions to get that. I mean seriously, loaning weapons and vehicles to the Directorate and then hiring us as repo men when they inevitably fail to pay up? Seems to me that there's quite a bit of corruption going on in the Restoration if we take those mission descriptions at face value.

And while the Coalition may indeed fall apart later on as Espinosa feared, I like to think that it survived in the 32nd century. It's area is of the map is blank in every official BT map released prior to this game. They could easily still be there and even prospered, perhaps gaining worlds that the Taurian Concordat lost. A future Coalition that's larger and more prosperous than it is in this game would basically PROVE that Espinosa was wrong from the start.

So how does the Coalition survive? Easily. Espinosa feared the "sharks" on the Coalition's borders, but failed to understand that those sharks had sharks of their own. Gobbling up the Coalition isn't their first priority, or even their third priority. They have better things to do and the ones that don't can be dealt with by the Coalition's own military... and of course a certain band of trusted mercenaries.

[Signal27]

evilauthor, on 15 May 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

So how does the Coalition survive? Easily. Espinosa feared the "sharks" on the Coalition's borders, but failed to understand that those sharks had sharks of their own. Gobbling up the Coalition isn't their first priority, or even their third priority. They have better things to do and the ones that don't can be dealt with by the Coalition's own military... and of course a certain band of trusted mercenaries.

On top of that, if you read the descriptions of certain individual planets within the Reach, some of them are real economic, trade, and industrial power houses all by themselves. The Reach as a whole may be reduced in power by the time the main storyline concludes due to the civil war, but a recovery is easily conceivable. Provided that Arano doesn't piss it all away, or some other antagonist doesn't decide they want those planets for themselves.

[evilauthor]

Signal27, on 15 May 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

some other antagonist doesn't decide they want those planets for themselves.

I don't see that happening any time soon. At the end of the story, Kamea seems on fairly good terms with BOTH the Magistry of Canopus AND the Taurian Concordat, both local superpowers. For the near future at least while the Coalition is rebuilding, I think their good will would keep any outside force larger than random pirate raids from hitting the Coalition. And anyone conquest minded they couldn't deter (aka the Successor States) have ZERO interest in the Coalition.

At least that's the situation with regard to open conquest. This is of course Battletech, and secret plots to to deprive Kamea of that good will is standard fare. Hell, Espinosa pulled off such a plot with the Perdition Massacre.