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Artistic Question - The Flea

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#1 Koniving

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 06:49 AM

With a single exception, as below, every piece of art of the Flea has been depicted as having Pnuematics for knees as opposed to muscles (Myomer Muscular Fibers).
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Even then, this version of the Flea while official, is a RetCon as the original looked like this... It also completely changes the purpose of this specific Flea variant. (The things on the legs are jumpjets).

Posted Image
Now somewhat obvious why they would change the art given this 1986 rendition. What irks me though is that the "14" is what defined the Flea as the Flea, and all other designs since then are derivative of this original "Flea". The "Flea 4" is basically the Trooper 4 renamed, as the 14 effectively renamed the Trooper series by how it jumps...the only one that did... with the merit that it could jump with its 4 jumpjets TWICE in a turn, meaning it actually counted as 8 jets for the weight of 4 and allowed two moves.

But beyond this, the other thing that irks me about that change is that the Flea 14 had a very specific purpose other than fast travel. It was not a scout. I say again, it was NOT a scout. It was mechanized troop transport intended to get infantry and battle armor (mounted on its extended platform) across the battlefield very quickly, allowing a team of infantry or battle armor meant for swarming mechs and vehicles to dart around the map much quicker than they could possibly do on their own or even in a normal vehicle, and drop them off to swarm a mech or vehicle while the Flea darts off again to pick up others. Hence... the name "Flea" and its rapid jumping and depositing of "Fleas" (infantry).

This got lost..sadly..in the "remade" art.

But that's just a sidetracked rant.

Anyway, every rendition aside from the remade art that completely forgot what the mech was for, we have Pnuematic equipment in the legs operating the knees. Not only this but they're exposed.

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(This red and black one is the basis for my current 3D model).
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Every version (prior to MW4 and the retcon Flea 14) has pnuematics for knees. So, my question is... is this a trait that should be kept when making and updating/redesigning the Flea to be more true to the Battletech lore..? Whether this feature of the legs is kept or not would make significant changes to how it is animated and may perform.

#2 Koniving

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 06:53 AM

I'm personally making a 3D model of the Flea (several different ones for different variants) among a collection of other mechs, but the leg design has bothered me for several reasons. One, it is among the many designs of the 1980s that made no thought to how it moves as there is no ability to turn or pivot, the legs simply are not capable of it and putting it into a physics engine...it can't turn properly even if you think of it like a tank and slow one leg down... the results are disastrous. As such the legs need to be redesigned and among the considerations is whether or not they should be using the pnuematic, considering that all battlemechs use myomer muscles.

#3 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:42 PM

Is it pneumatic instead of Myomer though, or were pneumatic added to help absorb shock? One doesn't rule out the other and other mech have been shown with pneumatic. But all battlemechs are built around the myomer/skeleton design, to my recollection. as for the Flea itself, I do prefer the style of the one shown in the old rules of warfare.

more along the lines of this guy
Posted Image

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 June 2018 - 05:45 PM.


#4 poopenshire

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 04:21 AM

From an engineering stand point, there is precedent to consider this as shock absorption. The idea and implementation of Myomer from a Bio-Kinetic stand point is of the same application of muscle, which is an analog application of force along a rigid support structure for controlled application of said force. Pneumatics are more Binary, meaning you don't get great fine tuned speed control, its mostly an on off type of situation. As I will state below this can be remedied by application of multiple pumps for additional force application. With this size and mass distribution we are talking fluid applications here obviously not air based.

Pneumatics are strong, but slow, and as I said tend to not have fine speed control (yes I know you can have Pneumatic actuators that have variable speed, but not in the same sense as other types of force application, these are limited by pump size and strength). Speed can be achieved with them, but it requires complex engineering and the Flea was a mass produced Mech so complex engineering would not suit this style. You talking about multiple pumps and reservoirs to apply pressure adding to the complexity and well just making things difficult.

When all is said and done from a practical standpoint, I would call it artistic license. Someone somewhere thought it looked cool, and I do like the look of the old Flea with it, even though the purpose for it is rather mundane and not useful. Muscle by its nature and structure around bone and by design Myomer and Internal Structure do absorb so much energy as I would say the mech might only need Pneumatics to suppliment forces at high speed or angular velocity, i.e. making sharp turns or added support from changes in height.

Edited by poopenshire, 06 June 2018 - 04:26 AM.


#5 Pain G0D

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 06:24 AM

The flea looks like a locust . What exactly is the difference ?

#6 poopenshire

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 06:43 AM

View PostPain G0D, on 06 June 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

The flea looks like a locust . What exactly is the difference ?



The Flea historically is more boxy. its like a Yugo vs a Volkswagen.

#7 Koniving

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 08:26 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 05 June 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Is it pneumatic instead of Myomer though, or were pneumatic added to help absorb shock? One doesn't rule out the other and other mech have been shown with pneumatic. But all battlemechs are built around the myomer/skeleton design, to my recollection. as for the Flea itself, I do prefer the style of the one shown in the old rules of warfare.

more along the lines of this guy
Posted Image

One could consider it as shock absorbtion, but this would only really make sense for the 15 ton Flea as that is the only one that jumps... and then in both versions of its art, it is the only Flea that fails to have it.
Also would having gas-powered cylinders aka pnuematics not have the side effect of getting in the way of a mech that runs at 60 miles per hour? Evidently it does get in the way of going 150 kph (93+ mph) as such its removed from the only variant that genuinely would need shock absorption (unless we make those landings more gentle with the same jumpjets but considering that they count as twice their weight and power by allowing two jumps in 10 seconds for a total travel of 8 hexes on only 4 jumpjets... that's expecting a lot of them to not back them up with said shock absorbers, compared to the rest that never jump at all.)

(Side note your leg design has the same issue that theirs does, there's no visible means of angling the legs for a change of direction. Though at least the ankle design appears to allow for rotating. The legs might at the hip but it seems unlikely. I may borrow your ankle design.

View Postpoopenshire, on 06 June 2018 - 04:21 AM, said:

From an engineering stand point, there is precedent to consider this as shock absorption. The idea and implementation of Myomer from a Bio-Kinetic stand point is of the same application of muscle, which is an analog application of force along a rigid support structure for controlled application of said force. Pneumatics are more Binary, meaning you don't get great fine tuned speed control, its mostly an on off type of situation. As I will state below this can be remedied by application of multiple pumps for additional force application. With this size and mass distribution we are talking fluid applications here obviously not air based.

Pneumatics are strong, but slow, and as I said tend to not have fine speed control (yes I know you can have Pneumatic actuators that have variable speed, but not in the same sense as other types of force application, these are limited by pump size and strength). Speed can be achieved with them, but it requires complex engineering and the Flea was a mass produced Mech so complex engineering would not suit this style. You talking about multiple pumps and reservoirs to apply pressure adding to the complexity and well just making things difficult.

When all is said and done from a practical standpoint, I would call it artistic license. Someone somewhere thought it looked cool, and I do like the look of the old Flea with it, even though the purpose for it is rather mundane and not useful. Muscle by its nature and structure around bone and by design Myomer and Internal Structure do absorb so much energy as I would say the mech might only need Pneumatics to suppliment forces at high speed or angular velocity, i.e. making sharp turns or added support from changes in height.


Slow is a bit perplexing. While I'm certain they aren't as fast as muscles, the examples I have seen have been jerky, violent, and perhaps a bit too fast. Then again the examples I have seen has also been those of the King Kong animatronic in Universal Studios. This was back in the 90s. Though looking at more recent stuff there seems to be much finer control.

Though from what I seen there's even less reason to believe it is slow when there's enough power behind it. The question is would be fast enough, why is it only there, and the even bigger mystery: Doesn't that limit both the range in which the limb can move and restrict it to only being able to move it one way (no pivoting at an angle at the knee or pushing off sideways to help it stand back up).

Sadly supporting sharp turns seems unlikely as it doesn't allow the mech to make said turns, in fact theFlea's design prohibits this throughout the entire leg design by not having any method to pivot left/right. This however is a failure on the artists.

-----------

All said and done though, the Flea I have made is currently shaped like the red and black one. The viewport is pretty limited but 2 to 4 monitors can supplement this to a limited capacity especially for a rear turret. The internal space is relatively cramped, though the mech is a bit thicker than Bishop's version. As that particular one is the Flea 4 (aka the Trooper 4), I kinda made the arms in such a way that they can come close to converging when faced forward or backward, but when pointed down they spread and when pointed up they converge tightly. This was done to give it a unique trait as well as yet another flaw. However I may scrap this aspect.

--------------

View PostPain G0D, on 06 June 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

The flea looks like a locust . What exactly is the difference ?

A Locust is a very slim and until recently a somewhat tall, long-legged design that can reach 129.6 kph or 80+ miles per hour. Its weapons are few and basic.

A Flea is a short, stocky and box on short stubby legs that tops out at 97 kph or barely more than 60 miles per hour and tends to carry quite a bit more weapons. Some carry either a lot more small weapons and some carry really large weapons such as the large laser (which most lights do not carry).

In terms of 1980s art/lore... A Flea can torso twist. A Locust cannot. Both have turrets for their CT weapons, however the Flea could have it mounted to the front or the back. The Locust only mounts the turret on the front, though artistically it has quite a bit more 'aiming range' than the Flea does. Locust typically has better sensors and its taller height gives it more of a "vantage point" from which to see and scan things.

Though the real difference is in the Ultra-Light 15 ton Flea, in its ability to not only jump but jump twice as often as any other mech in addition to a before-then unheard of 150 kph or 93+ miles per hour as well as carry infantry on its platform. This is the Flea that gave it the name, as no other Flea jumps.

Fleas were notorious, however, for being cheaply made with unreliable parts that had plagued Earthwerks and this chassis for a long time. 13 redesigns of the mech between 2475 and 2519 (so 13 redesigns in 44 years, with a 14th design in that time) were complete flops with only any promise coming from the Flea 4, which went extinct and then came back thanks to the Wolf's Dragoons building old designs without knowing it completely got wiped out before making their way to the IS to pose as mercenaries despite being Clan spies for Clan Wolf.

Once Trooper number 14 hit the field, they found a way to rebrand it all by going with the nickname it earned during testing and battles. Thus came about the Flea. Even then, the Flea 14 was still a flop but a much more positive one, and so came the Flea 15 and so on. But yes in 44 years it was redesigned 14 times and almost immediately a 15th design was being conceptualized. Oughtta give you an idea of the trouble they had with it.

Meanwhile Locusts were introduced in 2499, and the 1st model may have had modifications creating many sub variants, but these are all Locust 1s regardless of the sub-variant. The first model gets its latest modification in 3060 as the LCT-1V2. And no, it isn't the only model. The 3rd model also made some headway and the 5th model is ahead of our time. So if we discount the second model as no details were worth sharing, Locusts only had 2 actual models make it to the Clan Invasion. But the Fleas had a total of 16 different models between 2475 and 3050.

#8 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:15 PM

View PostKoniving, on 08 June 2018 - 08:26 PM, said:

One could consider it as shock absorbtion, but this would only really make sense for the 15 ton Flea as that is the only one that jumps... and then in both versions of its art, it is the only Flea that fails to have it.
Also would having gas-powered cylinders aka pnuematics not have the side effect of getting in the way of a mech that runs at 60 miles per hour? Evidently it does get in the way of going 150 kph (93+ mph) as such its removed from the only variant that genuinely would need shock absorption (unless we make those landings more gentle with the same jumpjets but considering that they count as twice their weight and power by allowing two jumps in 10 seconds for a total travel of 8 hexes on only 4 jumpjets... that's expecting a lot of them to not back them up with said shock absorbers, compared to the rest that never jump at all.)

(Side note your leg design has the same issue that theirs does, there's no visible means of angling the legs for a change of direction. Though at least the ankle design appears to allow for rotating. The legs might at the hip but it seems unlikely. I may borrow your ankle design.



Slow is a bit perplexing. While I'm certain they aren't as fast as muscles, the examples I have seen have been jerky, violent, and perhaps a bit too fast. Then again the examples I have seen has also been those of the King Kong animatronic in Universal Studios. This was back in the 90s. Though looking at more recent stuff there seems to be much finer control.

Though from what I seen there's even less reason to believe it is slow when there's enough power behind it. The question is would be fast enough, why is it only there, and the even bigger mystery: Doesn't that limit both the range in which the limb can move and restrict it to only being able to move it one way (no pivoting at an angle at the knee or pushing off sideways to help it stand back up).

Sadly supporting sharp turns seems unlikely as it doesn't allow the mech to make said turns, in fact theFlea's design prohibits this throughout the entire leg design by not having any method to pivot left/right. This however is a failure on the artists.

-----------

All said and done though, the Flea I have made is currently shaped like the red and black one. The viewport is pretty limited but 2 to 4 monitors can supplement this to a limited capacity especially for a rear turret. The internal space is relatively cramped, though the mech is a bit thicker than Bishop's version. As that particular one is the Flea 4 (aka the Trooper 4), I kinda made the arms in such a way that they can come close to converging when faced forward or backward, but when pointed down they spread and when pointed up they converge tightly. This was done to give it a unique trait as well as yet another flaw. However I may scrap this aspect.

--------------

A Locust is a very slim and until recently a somewhat tall, long-legged design that can reach 129.6 kph or 80+ miles per hour. Its weapons are few and basic.

A Flea is a short, stocky and box on short stubby legs that tops out at 97 kph or barely more than 60 miles per hour and tends to carry quite a bit more weapons. Some carry either a lot more small weapons and some carry really large weapons such as the large laser (which most lights do not carry).

In terms of 1980s art/lore... A Flea can torso twist. A Locust cannot. Both have turrets for their CT weapons, however the Flea could have it mounted to the front or the back. The Locust only mounts the turret on the front, though artistically it has quite a bit more 'aiming range' than the Flea does. Locust typically has better sensors and its taller height gives it more of a "vantage point" from which to see and scan things.

Though the real difference is in the Ultra-Light 15 ton Flea, in its ability to not only jump but jump twice as often as any other mech in addition to a before-then unheard of 150 kph or 93+ miles per hour as well as carry infantry on its platform. This is the Flea that gave it the name, as no other Flea jumps.

Fleas were notorious, however, for being cheaply made with unreliable parts that had plagued Earthwerks and this chassis for a long time. 13 redesigns of the mech between 2475 and 2519 (so 13 redesigns in 44 years, with a 14th design in that time) were complete flops with only any promise coming from the Flea 4, which went extinct and then came back thanks to the Wolf's Dragoons building old designs without knowing it completely got wiped out before making their way to the IS to pose as mercenaries despite being Clan spies for Clan Wolf.

Once Trooper number 14 hit the field, they found a way to rebrand it all by going with the nickname it earned during testing and battles. Thus came about the Flea. Even then, the Flea 14 was still a flop but a much more positive one, and so came the Flea 15 and so on. But yes in 44 years it was redesigned 14 times and almost immediately a 15th design was being conceptualized. Oughtta give you an idea of the trouble they had with it.

Meanwhile Locusts were introduced in 2499, and the 1st model may have had modifications creating many sub variants, but these are all Locust 1s regardless of the sub-variant. The first model gets its latest modification in 3060 as the LCT-1V2. And no, it isn't the only model. The 3rd model also made some headway and the 5th model is ahead of our time. So if we discount the second model as no details were worth sharing, Locusts only had 2 actual models make it to the Clan Invasion. But the Fleas had a total of 16 different models between 2475 and 3050.

My leg design isn't meant to.. it's literally adding greater detail to the existing design as shown in the original rules of warfare. And largely followed the linkages of the AT-ST which would achieve those turn via pitching the hip joint up and down. Of course, no one ever accused the AT-ST of being fast, so there is certainly a different design parameter to address.

I'd note shock absorption doesn't only make sense for jumping as a mech running at speed. Considering the sheer variance of terrain, craters etc. Think of the requirements between a road car vs a baja racer. A bigger slower mech will take less pounding from the terrain, whereas a smaller, faster one, will put more stress on it. Now consider (form lore perspective)the Trooper was a relatively early design.. what's another early design that encountered unexpected shearing issues? The Wasp. Jump kicking was causing the hip support struts to shear off.

Is it perfect real world mechanics? Probably not. What else in Battletech actually is?

Regardless, I was simply pointing to overall aesthetic. The MW4/MW0 Flea, frankly, looks like utter crap. *shrugs*

As for sporting sharp turns... the faster you go, even with low center of grav the worse the issue becomes. I know people love to talk about how an athlete can plant and post off, but even though myomer replicates human design to a degree... we are still talking massive (15 tons and up) high center of gravity units with limited ground contact. There was a reason I argued that the only nerf the Timberwolf needed back in the day was to have it's agility reduced... because straightline speed and agility are NOT the same thing. Over course it got whined down by the usual suspects, go figure. And even the magic of gyroscopes only go so far (see robot meets banana peel youtube, lol)

Honestly, IMO the faster a design in battletech is meant to go, the less yaw I believe the system would be capable of since it has to balance speed, agility, acceleration and armor. (something human athletes don't have to factor in)

Also recall the basic Flea, and many other designs are shown as chicken walkers, a design that does not actually appear in nature, and as such is already missing part of the joint system seen in actual plantigrade and digitigrade designs. (it's also why to the best of my knowledge no robots companies are seriously pursuing chicken walkers as a design). It's an inherently inefficient mechanical design to begin with. Hence why I followed the AT-ST model and added the extra joint back to make a digitigrade.

*shrugs*

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 June 2018 - 09:23 PM.


#9 Koniving

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 08:14 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 08 June 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:



Poopenshire's response suggested the possibility that the pneumatic could potentially be there to help absorb the shock of a sharp turn which is why I pointed out the leg design in general doesn't allow for them (or actually any kind of turn in the original art, it has no way of actually turning).

On plantigrade/digitigrade:

I thought I'd point out some real life robotic examples of the "BT" style chickenwalker in use on modern robotics.

BigDog's younger cousins from Boston Dynamics such as Spot and Spot Mini go for the chicken walker design without the proper digitigrade leg design, although like the Battletech Stalker is often depicted despite how freakish that is, these robots can use their legs in both chicken walker and traditional functions although it generally has a preference for chicken walker. This is shared by Wild Cat (which carries hefty weights) and Handle (bipedal but with tires for feet to achieve exceptional mobility on this unnatural chicken walker design). Again as you say this is an unnatural leg design and for chicken walkers the thigh being backwards is a peculiar way to go. While the Handle doesn't walk in a literal sense, it still uses the classic chickenwalker leg position for all of its movement as a bipedal machine.

Big Dog, Handle, Spot, etc..

Its bigger cousin the Big Dog, however, uses a proper leg layout with three joints (so hip-to-thigh, thigh-to-shin, shin-to-ankle.) instead of two in the leg design (note the others are straight hip-to-thigh, thigh-to-shin/ankle whichever you want to call it). This The three joints severely hampers its potential speed by adding that extra level of complexity to its movements but significantly increases its strength. Technically each of them have a hip-to-pelvis joint that all bipedal battletech mechs lack in terms of artwork, that ultra critical joint for lateral left/right movement which is important for catching and stabilizing itself against falling to the side. However in the construction rules this is the "hip joint." Where the thigh joint is what we actually see. Its also possible that the "hip joints" are technically the pelvis to torso, but this isn't supported by movement rules in regards to the hip being destroyed.

Big dog uses Hydraulics. Wild Cat uses Hydraulics. Spot uses hydraulics. Spot Mini uses electric motors. This says something for hydraulics, too, but the movements of the weaker Wild Cat show that in order to achieve speed it massively simplifies movement to the utmost basic which leaves it quite vulnerable, and indeed as you say Bishop velocity and agility do not combine as the faster it goes the more limited it is. Another inherent limitation is that with such a focus on speed, its ability to turn is also quite a bit slower than its other counter parts even when stationary. This seems in large part to the simplification of its legs, despite still having 14 joints (compared to big dog's 16 and spot's 12). Most of these joints however do not seem to be in the legs but in various sections of the body to lessen physical shock of the way it runs.

Which does bring a point about shock absorption. It can be done and may have a purpose. I just find it hard to believe a single hydraulic or pneumatic would be enough to take a serious shock per leg when the machine is 20 tons. Even if both legs land at the same time that's 10 tons per leg. Beyond this, I can't help but think it would get in the way.

On the flip side having seen modern hydraulic and pnuematics (compared to past experiences with 1980s/90s) I do suppose they have become quite a bit more capable. Considering that many Agricultural mechs are using hydraulics and pnuematics such as the Buster, Harvester Ant, etc instead of myomers, it stands to reason that they do have some good capabilities.

Without the additional joint found in naturally developed legs, however, I can't imagine the Flea engaging in foot-related melee.

I saw something today that might make mechs a little more possible in the near future. The "B.E.A.R." actuator. While the robots themselves are completely unimpressive, the actuator is a huge deal. It is an "Electromechanical" actuator that can do various tension and stiffness traits, allow for pliability to better handle impact shock, and yet has surprising strength. Its greatest feat however, is how quickly it can be adjusted for jumping and three of these actuators the size of the thumb of the Asian guy's hand has enough power to vault 40 lbs up over his head (on a supported platform as there was only leg for the demonstration). (Considering how small this thing is, that is pretty impressive, I mean the overall leg was about as long stretched out as a printer is wide and about as skinny as a finger to a finger and a half.

Now imagine a series of "B.E.A.R." actuators about the size of your torso. Even cooler, cosmetically they look roughly the same as Battletech's actuators on the Flea.

-------------

All said and done.. The consensus appears to be "Keep them" on the model as opposed to removing them. Am I correct?

I'll have to find a way to give them a little bit of protection because honestly it looks like a vulnerability in addition to a limitation to how far the limbs can move. I know a good full stride running motion certainly wouldn't be feasible, but if it pushes off in more of a hobble it could reach 97 without having to do full strides.. god it will certainly make you look twice. (Just imagine the Big Dog 'pacing' of constantly raising and lowering its legs, this is a bit of what the run might look like with each step giving it a hop due to the limitation of a pneumatic going from thigh to shin as this thing cannot stretch its leg out for a full stride).

The Flea is definitely gonna be unique when I'm done, as getting a model of that approximate height to 97 kph (60 miles per hour give or take) without being able to do full strides is... well to achieve it the machine must push off and hop with each stride, leaving several seconds of having nothing touch the ground.

(As you said earlier, Bishop, the Flea definitely will not be good at turning while running.)

-----------

My next thread will be about enlisting help for interior cockpit layout.

Edited by Koniving, 09 June 2018 - 11:25 AM.


#10 Koniving

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 12:03 PM

Okay so I worked it out a bit. Using a Front Mission Gust Wanzer action figure...
Posted Image
(Sadly most images of the Wanzer in later games are on wikis that have images not compatible with here, and laziness to save and upload to my own).
(surprisingly the figure doesn't have anything out there showing a decent image of it, considering its a 97 figure only sold in Japan this isn't surprising, especially given it is only 3 inches tall while the more popular figures are 5 inches tall and made out of much better plastics)..

....I was able to figure out an approximate run cycle that works, limiting the leg movement with a tiny rubber band to simulate the pneumatic limitation. It seems feasible enough. The next stage was "Can it actually be done in real life." Thus I set about recreating it in person by moving backwards outside. I'm no stranger to walking and running backwards, been doing it since I was a kid. But doing so while squatting into position is a bit awkward, but with enough push off the ground for each step, despite myself squatting to maintain the leg position I was able to get enough speed to believe that this could be physically believable. In moving backwards with human legs, we get a result similar to that of BT chicken walkers. Not as stable as actual avian legs, but feasible.

In truth, the requirement of having to push off with a fair amount of force without the leg stride being able to stretch out almost requires the very pneumatic cylinder that's forcing this movement restriction in the first place to achieve a feasible speed. So in coming up with this run cycle concept has actually given use for the pneumatic both in absorbing the shock of the run and the pushoff that makes it possible. Ultimately I think this contrived way of running can be one of the many flaws of the "Trooper" design that carries over for a long time. After all, nothing else in Battletech would move like this. Though there was that hobbling Timber Wolf sprint in which it didn't do full strides... That's actually surprisingly similar to what I came up with though I've only now thought of it with this edit.

Animating this won't be too complicated, but I need to include bones to ensure a good performance from the pneumatic cylinder and careful key frame editing.

----

On the arms, Fleas are like Locusts, there's 3 to 4 armor per arm (Locusts range from 3 to 5). So while I might not have the weapons as exposed as yours (except for the 14, the Flea 14 only has 1 point per arm; I also don't know which Flea yours is supposed to represent), I do want them to be somewhat vulnerable.
Posted Image
This design, which is what mine looks a lot alike (as I literally used it to base the body on and arms on), seems okay but I would enjoy input on the arms and whether or not I should redesign them.

Posted Image
This is a bit old. At this point I have the second arm as exactly the same as the the image and have it built up to the pelvis and from there its a mess of low poly leg concepts.

Kinda like with my Scorpion, once I hit the leg design stage I kinda...stopped screwing with it for a while. Though once I get the Flea done I'll go back to the Scorpion.
Scorpion leg skeletal structure concept for an animation rig.
Posted Image

But the motivation's coming back with the latest Battletech and the potential to put models into game.

Edited by Koniving, 09 June 2018 - 12:12 PM.


#11 Brenden

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 09:07 PM

Could you post that picture of the Flea from the lower right of the Magazine, the one that shows what looks to be a 3/4ths view?

#12 Starquestman

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 04:06 AM

View PostPain G0D, on 06 June 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

The flea looks like a locust . What exactly is the difference ?


One of them gives you black plague, the other one devastates your crops

#13 Koniving

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 07:07 AM

View PostBrenden, on 22 June 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

Could you post that picture of the Flea from the lower right of the Magazine, the one that shows what looks to be a 3/4ths view?

Best I can do for you.
Posted Image
(Could get faster responses by using quotes.)

#14 Koniving

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 07:20 AM

Improved it a bit after realizing the pages didn't divide it evenly.
Posted Image

The 3D image/art shifts the center of gravity more to the center of the pelvis compared to the concept blueprint and removes the addition of where infantry is supposed to grab on. Unknown if it is supposed to be a Flea 14 as well or if it is meant to represent any other Flea.

Whichever the case, I know the artwork is awkward (and very obviously a modified AT-ST), but I enjoy the concept of ~that~ Flea 14 (of the concept blueprint, as opposed to the "newer" one with giant rocket boosters loosely slapped onto the thighs). Rather than simply an ultra light mech that runs and jumps, its an ultra light mech that runs and jumps and carries loose infantry (power-armor or standard) around to quickly pick up and drop off infantry across the map with agility that no vehicle could rival. That gives it more than a niche.

Edited by Koniving, 23 June 2018 - 07:26 AM.






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