95 replies to this topic

[VaudeVillain]

Play what you want just be able to be effective with what you bring. After all, it is quite pitiful to see all these people who have to use anything higher than Level 1 tech to be able to do decent. Just kidding, but I did get to Tier 2 and I only use Level 1 Tech, which everyone considers "bad builds".

[IIXxXII]

The rudeness and decline in player skill could be correlated with an influx of new players from harebrained schemes new battletech game.

[Popcat]

"To be pedantic, you did agree to the ToS, effectively (literally?) a contract, which has certain criteria for what you do in a match. You are expected to make a certain effort to contribute towards winning the match."

There is actually nothing in the terms of service requiring you to build an optimal mech, be a certain quality warrior or even any discussion of your match expectations. Just that you won't hold them accountable when you fall out of you chair trying to dodge the incoming LRMS, commit crimes or steal. It does however specify you won't harass other players. . . Ya know like telling people their "worthless", or "dumb" or "to uninstall from life" because you don't like their playing. . . Just sayin.

On the subject of the Cicada matches. Battletech is built around good mechs and crummy mechs you should feel free to build your mech and try out new tactics. Fix what didn't work and do better next time. There are test maps but battle is the best test. If that makes the arm chair generals upset .. . well that's what the block buttons for, click away and enjoy the sound of silence. . . hello darkness my old friend . . . I've come to play MWO again

Also Lanchesters Laws are very well demonstrated in MechWarrior so if you truly want to be a team player remember Popcats Law

In combat your chances of survival are directly proportional the amount of fire power you put down range.

Edited by Popcat, 30 May 2018 - 07:30 PM.

[stealthraccoon]

I’ve tried making a single lite gauss effective, but all it does is get you assist points - it’s just can’t put out sufficient damage to be used alone. Try pairing it with an ERLL or switch to PPC’s (I do love HPPC’s).

[Eisenhorne]

VaudeVillain, on 30 May 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Play what you want just be able to be effective with what you bring. After all, it is quite pitiful to see all these people who have to use anything higher than Level 1 tech to be able to do decent. Just kidding, but I did get to Tier 2 and I only use Level 1 Tech, which everyone considers "bad builds".

Tier 2 or Tier 1 is not an indicator of skill, just of time spent playing the game.

[mad kat]

IIXxXII, on 30 May 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

The rudeness and decline in player skill could be correlated with an influx of new players from harebrained schemes new battletech game.

Not quite, I don't mean to sound rude or elitist but it's more that the good players have ****** off to battltech with a couple of exceptions and all that's left are casuals and newbies. Not that there's anything wrong with that but look at player numbers on Steam (yes not entirely indicative) but see the decline since battletech release date just after the spike from solaris and that battletech now commands roughly four to five times as many players since release? Let's face it MWO's player count isn't exactly healthy. It's lost roughly half it's players since 2015 and that wasn't exactly booming then. Maybe it's time for an MWO withdrawal for a refresh and relaunch to iron out those 'features' once and for all and to tempt some players back.

Also ever since most pre-match rosters now unit memberships, faction alliegences and package badges have all but disappeared. As the veterans have grown fed up of PGI's repeated incompetence and head in the sand attitude, compounded with the ability to not fix things that's been in the game for YEARS and a 'matchmaker' that's so laughably clearly not there that battletech is a ray of light.

I for one have started switching over and while battltech does have some foibles too it's clearly much better thought out than MWO and there's a whole ton more depth to the gameplay than mech COD which MWO is rapidly turning into.

Edited by mad kat, 30 May 2018 - 11:00 PM.

[Sjorpha]

mad kat, on 30 May 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

Not quite, I don't mean to sound rude or elitist but it's more that the good players have ****** off to battltech with a couple of exceptions and all that's left are casuals and newbies.

The best players in arena shooters don't quit in favor of a single player tbs game, that's nonsense. The best players that quit MWO simply move to other shooters where their competitive skills can shine such as PUBG, CSGO or the like.

Also I think an increasing amount of the competitive players play almost exclusively comp matches these days and are more rarely seen in the regular game modes.

Many of the top MWO players have a few different shooters they play and it's just a matter of shifting time gradually away from MWO and towards the others.

Also the meme about "the decline in skill", broken matchmaker and so on has been here all the years I've played MWO. Somehow it's always worse than ever and stated as if self evidently true, I'm quite sceptical of truisms like that. Looks more like hyperbole and doom & gloom attitudes is part of the MWO forum culture.

Edited by Sjorpha, 31 May 2018 - 12:35 AM.

[sycocys]

Eisenhorne, on 30 May 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

How can you coordinate with the team if you can't hear anything?

It's pretty simple. You let everyone else do the same exact things they do in nearly every single match since the game went to 12v12.

And on the rare occasions they actually do something different, its pretty easy to spot with radar and team-target.

Either way its not hard to coordinate the way you plan to without anyone's additional input. The game being built around one game mode and maps are mostly too small and designed to funnel the game to a certain location only further remove the need for active communication.

--Even new players shouldn't take too long to pick up on it, by the 3rd or maybe 4th time they drop on a map they should be seeing the patterns pretty well.

[yrrot]

sycocys, on 31 May 2018 - 01:54 AM, said:

It's pretty simple. You let everyone else do the same exact things they do in nearly every single match since the game went to 12v12.

And on the rare occasions they actually do something different, its pretty easy to spot with radar and team-target.

Either way its not hard to coordinate the way you plan to without anyone's additional input. The game being built around one game mode and maps are mostly too small and designed to funnel the game to a certain location only further remove the need for active communication.

--Even new players shouldn't take too long to pick up on it, by the 3rd or maybe 4th time they drop on a map they should be seeing the patterns pretty well.

So when someone on comms is warning you about a stealth mech, you can see it on radar? What about when they are calling a target? Or letting you know someone has an open CT, but has radar derped off of your screen? Does red smoke show up on your radar?

Following a nascar around the map isn't team coordination at all. Comms are good, you should use them.

[sycocys]

yrrot, on 31 May 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

So when someone on comms is warning you about a stealth mech, you can see it on radar? What about when they are calling a target? Or letting you know someone has an open CT, but has radar derped off of your screen? Does red smoke show up on your radar?

Following a nascar around the map isn't team coordination at all. Comms are good, you should use them.

You can see which way your teammates are facing/heading - this accounts for ~95% of the usefulness of the radar whether you have comms on or not. The only time that enemy location on radar is even useful is if someone pops a uav on a lance or more and that's just for seeing which direction they are going because you should already know that they are there.

Rest of the enemies other than ecm/stealth will appear as red doritos - the ones that don't show are easy enough to find if you bother to simply look where your team is shooting.

Unless you are damage farming,why would you shoot anywhere but CT (or legs on lights)? This is another thing even new players should pick up on well before their cadet is done.

Why is red smoke even a concern? Use your eyeballs, it's not invisible to certain players and visible to others. If you are still getting hit by it, that's all on you - try not being zoomed in 100% of the time.

Lastly who said anything about following your team? Do whatever you want to do, it doesn't change the fact that in 99% of drops the other 11 on your team are going to do the same exact thing they did the last 100 times they dropped on whatever map you pulled. Same path to the same confrontation area, same engagement strategies.
Out of radar from your team? Pull up the team target info and it will show you roughly where everyone is at, and if you are smart enough you can still tell which directions they are going.

Comms, might be a different story if the game had mode depth and maps/target/drop locations that varied from match to match but it doesn't. As the game is designed, the communications systems are only marginally useful if you want to drop in group mode.

[Xiphias]

Popcat, on 30 May 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

"To be pedantic, you did agree to the ToS, effectively (literally?) a contract, which has certain criteria for what you do in a match. You are expected to make a certain effort to contribute towards winning the match."

There is actually nothing in the terms of service requiring you to build an optimal mech, be a certain quality warrior or even any discussion of your match expectations.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in specifying the code of conduct instead of using ToS as a blanket term. It's irrelevant since you agree to both in order to be allowed to play the game.

That said, I didn't say that it requires you to build an optimal mech (quite the contrary), I said nothing about the level of skill that a player is required to have, in the CoC there is in fact a discussion of match expectations, specifically the sections on non-participation and griefing.

Match expectations specifically listed in the CoC:

No intentional team killing/damaging, no suicide to die early, no intentionally blocking teammates mechs or firing lines, no willfully assisting the enemy.

"The absence of even one player in a match can directly impact the playing experience and level of enjoyment for all other players in that match. Initiating the search for a match should be seen as an unspoken commitment to all other players who will be placed into the same match.

We completely understand that life goes on regardless of your participation in a game, but walking away from the computer or alt+tabbing out to browse the internet after initiating a match and not returning in time to provide meaningful assistance to your teammates are considered acts of non-participation."

So yes, the ToS/CoC do have specific (albeit very minimal) requirements for match participation.

Quote

It does however specify you won't harass other players. . . Ya know like telling people their "worthless", or "dumb" or "to uninstall from life" because you don't like their playing. . . Just sayin.

While harassment is explicit mentioned in the CoC/ToS it also defines what is considered harassment. Contrary to popular belief telling someone their build is bad (by itself) isn't harassment, similarly telling them that how they are playing is wrong isn't harassment, and even telling them that they played badly doesn't necessarily qualify as harassment. Obviously, there are people that cross the line, but if you make bad choices it's not unreasonable to expect to get called out on them.

[James Argent]

Minamitsu, on 29 May 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

Games 3 and 4, basically a total repeat of the others.

The only constant in your solo QP matches is you.

[yrrot]

sycocys, on 31 May 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

You can see which way your teammates are facing/heading - this accounts for ~95% of the usefulness of the radar whether you have comms on or not. The only time that enemy location on radar is even useful is if someone pops a uav on a lance or more and that's just for seeing which direction they are going because you should already know that they are there.

Rest of the enemies other than ecm/stealth will appear as red doritos - the ones that don't show are easy enough to find if you bother to simply look where your team is shooting.

Unless you are damage farming,why would you shoot anywhere but CT (or legs on lights)? This is another thing even new players should pick up on well before their cadet is done.

Why is red smoke even a concern? Use your eyeballs, it's not invisible to certain players and visible to others. If you are still getting hit by it, that's all on you - try not being zoomed in 100% of the time.

Lastly who said anything about following your team? Do whatever you want to do, it doesn't change the fact that in 99% of drops the other 11 on your team are going to do the same exact thing they did the last 100 times they dropped on whatever map you pulled. Same path to the same confrontation area, same engagement strategies.
Out of radar from your team? Pull up the team target info and it will show you roughly where everyone is at, and if you are smart enough you can still tell which directions they are going.

Comms, might be a different story if the game had mode depth and maps/target/drop locations that varied from match to match but it doesn't. As the game is designed, the communications systems are only marginally useful if you want to drop in group mode.

You can't get line of sight around corners or behind you--which means you can't magically see red smoke on the other side, or the ECM mech that's moving to flank you. Even if you could track 12 enemies with spotty intel/radar and LOS, why does it hurt to have a teammate call them out of comms? Knowledge is power, and I don't know why you would want to be against having more of it in this game.

Only shoot CT ever, huh? Man, wouldn't it be great if no one ever torso twisted and took the brunt of your shots to a side torso. Now it's open, and you can just rip it off and kill whatever weapons they had on that side, probably their heat efficiency with LFE/cXL. There are plenty of times that ripping off a ST is more important than pumping an alpha into the CT armor.

The game doesn't need to be more complicated to justify using comms. Hell, CoD is super simple, small maps, and comms are super useful there too. Don't like someone that's talking? Toggle mute. Pretty simple.

[ME-tan]

Sometimes you just can't win when playing Lights. I was in a match the other day where a guy got upset with the light lance for countering the enemy lights, then when the match ended we had another guy get mad at us for not countering the enemy lights. I find that these types of people never pilot anything lighter than a Heavy themselves, so I just roll my eyes and brush it off.

[Brain Cancer]

The LGauss seems to be appealing as a sniper/stealth weapon, but as noted- it just plain doesn't punch hard enough to make a serious impression versus all but the most badly damaged targets. This also means it's even worse off if you're firing in it's reduced damage ranges, since it's already bad damage drops even further. You're outgunned by even the most normal of standoff light/medium builds and at the ranges you're generally firing at, stealth armor is mostly redundant as sensors won't pick you up through ECM anyway.

A slower Gauss + ECM build is fun, though. Sure, you're only going about 90kph, but you'll actually make an impression hitting things and still get a respectable 725m base for full damage using a standard Gauss, more than enough to use normal ECM to hide your target signature (and that's before range skill mods and such, which you'll likely get a few of on the way down the firepower tree anyway). Alternatively, there's also things like HPPC+LPPC if you want even more punch with a slightly smaller envelope.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 31 May 2018 - 10:08 AM.

[sycocys]

yrrot, on 31 May 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

You can't get line of sight around corners or behind you--which means you can't magically see red smoke on the other side, or the ECM mech that's moving to flank you. Even if you could track 12 enemies with spotty intel/radar and LOS, why does it hurt to have a teammate call them out of comms? Knowledge is power, and I don't know why you would want to be against having more of it in this game.

Only shoot CT ever, huh? Man, wouldn't it be great if no one ever torso twisted and took the brunt of your shots to a side torso. Now it's open, and you can just rip it off and kill whatever weapons they had on that side, probably their heat efficiency with LFE/cXL. There are plenty of times that ripping off a ST is more important than pumping an alpha into the CT armor.

The game doesn't need to be more complicated to justify using comms. Hell, CoD is super simple, small maps, and comms are super useful there too. Don't like someone that's talking? Toggle mute. Pretty simple.

If you actually pay attention to what your team is doing, you can track the ecm/stealth mech and smoke with ease.
-Someone turns and takes a few steps in a direction there's no doritos, there's likely a flanker that direction.
-See them halt and do a truffle shuffle back or to the side, you can pretty well bet there's smoke.

Torso twisting - well if you are shooting CT and they twist.... you are going to either hit CT the exposed or other ST. If you are aiming for the ST and they twist you are probably going to get the arm or air.

I honestly don't care if you want to run with comms or chat on, they just don't actually give you the "knowledge" advantage that you think they do because the game plays out the same few ways in almost every single match. Most of it is highly predictable, the bits that aren't are quite easy to pick up on via the various visual queues which leaves the comms as being a barely if at all useful tool.

[Mystere]

Minamitsu, on 29 May 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

So I have learned two things from this.
First, the community went from decent to League levels of cancer in a single day.
And second, apparently I am so much more valuable than anyone else on my teams that if i'm not playing front line it's purely on me when a game ends 0-12.

Ignore the *******, in-game and here on the forums. Play what you want; it is your free time. Others can tell you how to play as long as they pay 100% of your bills and time. <shrugs>

As long as you are actually trying, you are fine.

Edited by Mystere, 31 May 2018 - 12:43 PM.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 29 May 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

A single Light Gauss for sniping? What a waste of a mech slot.

Spheroid, on 29 May 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

By removing yourself from combat you promoted an attrition cascade. The criticism was justified.
See Lanchester's Laws https://en.wikipedia...hester%27s_laws

Luminis, on 29 May 2018 - 08:34 PM, said:

The lesson you should have learned is that leaving your team one down to play a camping sniper is not as smart as you thought it was.

Winning an 11 vs 12 fight is something that is nowhere close to insurmountable. Fights have been won with much worse odds.

The fact that one team has an entire lance or more wiped quickly is an indication of something much worse. In a quick 11-0 wipeout, the blame is 100% somewhere else. The player who decided to go solo in such a situation is nothing but a mere scapegoat of the up to 11 others who obviously did something much much worse. <shrugs>

Cer6erus, on 30 May 2018 - 01:01 AM, said:

Flanking and such is fine and all of you do it right. The problem is, as you stated, that by the time you are 'in position' for each round, the games were all but over. That comes down to piloting error.

Kiran Yagami, on 30 May 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

Your performance is lacking if 4 of your teammates are down before you even fire a shot.

Both of you, see above.

RickySpanish, on 30 May 2018 - 03:51 AM, said:

OP talks about "League levels of cancer" and bandies around that sad, tired and overly dramatic word "toxic" and wonders why the game went to pot. You're the problem OP: Grow up.

You too.

Edited by Mystere, 31 May 2018 - 12:44 PM.

[Mystere]

jss78, on 30 May 2018 - 07:52 AM, said:

Few people like "snipers" in FPS games, be it the enemy team or their own. It's basic psychology -- you're out there in the front, your team is getting demolished, and one guy is hanging way out in the back.

Being toxic over a video game is unreasonable, but I think it's also good to be pragmatic and ask yourself how much you're helping your team.

9 times out of 10 I really don't like snipers on my team. But if they do 1000+ damage from back there, all's forgiven. However with a single light gauss I really doubt you're that guy.

If you're a sniper, you better do it really, really well.

Eisenhorne, on 30 May 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

I had one game on HPG where I saw an Annihilator spending 5 minutes trying to get up onto the wall. I was telling him to stop dicking around and get into the fight over VOIP, he ignored me. He must have had 6x UAC2's or something, because eventually he got up on top of the wall, and the end game damage showed he put out ~1400 damage onto the enemy. It was a risky move, because it assumed we would live 5 minutes without an assault mech to act as the backbone of our force, but it worked in the end. Still not the best way to play, but I can't be too angry when results like that happen. It's really the only time something like that has happened though, over hundreds of games.

When one single person does something out of the ordinary, it is 100% entirely that player's fault when the team loses. However, if the team wins because of said person, it's simply okay.

People.

[R Valentine]

Mystere, on 31 May 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Winning an 11 vs 12 fight is something that is nowhere close to insurmountable. Fights have been won with much worse odds.

The fact that one team has an entire lance or more wiped quickly is an indication of something much worse. In a quick 11-0 wipeout, the blame is 100% somehere else. The player who decided to go solo in such a situation is nothing but a mere scapegoat of the up to 11 others who obviously did something much much worse. <shrugs>

Or it could just be that wasting your time running around the map until 4 of your teammates are dead is a losing strategy. Yep, I think that's it.