Too Many 2Nd Line Builds
#1
Posted 01 June 2018 - 05:15 PM
I am beginning to wonder if that is because front line players are the first to get bored with the game and leave. It's easy to sit back and alpha poke each match getting 500+ damage even if that damage doesn't result in a win. It's harder to push into a fight knowing you're likely gonna die and get a terrible score - even if you win.
The mech choices for a front line push mech are limited and oddly enough, we just saw the anni get taken down a notch or two because it did the job of pushing into a fire line too well. Something about defense should not be a selling point on a mech.
I really think that idea needs a rework - more defensive heavy mechs to pull players away from peek/poke or nascar and get them into the fight.
#2
Posted 01 June 2018 - 05:24 PM
If you want more brawling, FP actually offers better opportunities for it, as guarding a door or attacking into a door usually means having to fight at close quarters.
Otherwise, the only real answer is to vote against Polar Highlands, and hope the devs rework that and other maps to be more brawl-friendly.
#3
Posted 01 June 2018 - 05:24 PM
Edited by Vanguard836, 01 June 2018 - 05:24 PM.
#4
Posted 01 June 2018 - 05:33 PM
#5
Posted 01 June 2018 - 05:41 PM
#6
Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:29 PM
#7
Posted 01 June 2018 - 10:38 PM
Tranderas, on 01 June 2018 - 05:24 PM, said:
And...
HPG
Mining Collective
Canyon Network
Crimson straight
River City
Any map with domination save maybe Frozen city (the "bowl" is a tough spot to fight from)
Honestly most maps are brawl friendly if the correct tactics are employed.
#8
Posted 01 June 2018 - 11:42 PM
Or just want to test a build no matter the consequences.
Could be other raisins, I just do not want to consider them.
#9
Posted 01 June 2018 - 11:57 PM
#10
Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:27 AM
But if you want your close range mechs to actually be strong choices you have to join a unit/group and brawl as a team in group queue or FP.
Edited by Sjorpha, 02 June 2018 - 12:31 AM.
#11
Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:06 AM
The concept of sharing damage across the team is alien to most selfish solos.
#12
Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:17 AM
This is an ideal picture without anyone running at the edge of the map, right into deathball or just standing still at spawn, so...
#13
Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:36 AM
Phlynn, on 01 June 2018 - 05:15 PM, said:
What you consider to be "sit back and alpha poke" is what I would consider to be "front line" mechs.
Ultimately, how you play your mech is what determines whether you are front line or not. You can be a front line mech with 5x ERLL sitting and poking at 700m, as long as you are poking aggressively and cumulating a suitable amount of attention from the enemy. You might be taking and giving more damage than the LB20+SRM brawlers who are "up front" sitting behind cover uselessly the whole match waiting for their right time to strike.
Your mech and build is not what dictates whether you are front line or not. Rather it is decided by how you interact with the enemy, imo.
#14
Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:43 AM
Edited by El Bandito, 02 June 2018 - 02:44 AM.
#15
Posted 02 June 2018 - 10:29 AM
If you're constantly running into a 5 person firing line you are going to get wrecked everytime.
#16
Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:36 PM
Pushing to brawl can be very strong. Absolutely strong in QP - if your team happens to have the balls to push. That's just luck. You can always count on pugs to run when pushed which turns any good push into a route and roll. However you're just as likely to be on the timid team as the gutsy team.
However what really matters is aggression. Even with a range build. Shoot early, shoot often.
#17
Posted 02 June 2018 - 12:55 PM
#18
Posted 02 June 2018 - 01:54 PM
Nightbird, on 02 June 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:
That's brawl, not front line. In that example the trade mechs are the front line and the brawl push mechs need to get as close as they can without taking damage and either receive the enemy push while fresh vs damaged or push the enemy fresh vs damaged.
However all that requires some sort of coordination. The number of players who actually understand what trading and winning trades is and can play that successfully and consistently can eat together in the same restaurant. Maybe not the same table but it's like 50-75 total players. They are rare as hens teeth in QP. What you have in QP is not trade players but players who are scared of taking damage. Not making smart trades and giving up damage to do more damage but either fearful or just flat out incompetent players. Even if the smart play in a situation is to push and quickly kill a couple of mechs that are caught out to get an advantage they will just hide and wait and hope someone else does it.
That's the crux of the QP problem and "second line mechs". A good trade player is great. Always happy to have one on my team. They're aggressive and persistent and effective. That's now how your QP team is though, they're in poke builds because they are scared of getting hit and are just hoping to get luck and catch enemies focused on someone else in any given match. The guy in the brawl mech who makes the daylight charge over the minefield is just as worthless but not being one doesn't make you the other.
#20
Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:22 PM
El Bandito, on 02 June 2018 - 02:43 AM, said:
This point right here is what "brawlers" frequently get tripped up on.
Brawling is closing in to finish the enemy in close(ish) quarters during a proper opening.
Brawl to soon and you may spend your mech maybe landing a single kill but wait for the right moment and you can dispatch several mechs.
Those very same "second line" mechs on the enemy team are your ideal prey. They are close enough to reach not idealy suited to sustained direct conflict in close quarters and frequently less heat efficient than a well designed brawler.
What I wait for to engage in a brawl are the following.
Opportunity to close in on an isolated enemy flank: I see one or two enemy out on a "wing" of their formation with ample cover for me to close in on them and sack em. I pay attention to the enemy target's loadouts and avoid mechs that can handle a sustained close quarters fight (no SRM boats for example) If the enemy mech is for example a laser boat I wait for them to fire off a couple of volleys to be sure that by the time they notice me they have a high heat burden. Good tactic on Polar Highlands.
Opportunity to push upon a weakened enemy possition: If I see several mechs with open torso armor/deprived of main weapons or clearly on the verge of collapsing I push and aim carefully. Target selection and well placed shots can quickly turn the kill count to your team's favor and is a potent moral boost. Frozen city tend towards providing this sort of opportunity as does Mining Collective or any densely covered map (cities)
Opportunity to utterly screw up the enemy's well laid plans. If I see a unified push on my team and I am in a good possition to intercept I do so. But the trick is do not intercept the front mechs leading the charge. Doing this just makes you the first to get killed. Hit the third or fourth mech in formation and put a scare in them. Causing a pause in the second wave of a push leaves the vanguard out numbered and easily dispatched. Doing this is not a tactic to win right now it's a tactic to win in a few minutes so...don't push to hard just get some licks in get those enemy mechs scrambling for cover and bug out for cover your self. If you executed this tactic well the few enemy in the lead of the push get isolated and die and the second and rear lines of the enemy fall back to a poke fight just now they are short a couple of team mates. Any map at any moment just get good at reading the enemy and guessing when is "the moment"
SACK THE LURMs! if I can get around the enemy and take down a lumbering lurmboat I will do it. I would say Grimm Plexus and Rubullite Oasis generally grant this sort of opportunity more frequently while maps like Alpine/Polar and Tourmaline can be punishing if you screw up.
And finally Polar Highlands IS a BRAWLING map! standing at range and getting pummeled to death by lurms and gauss shots is hopw to loose a fight on Polar. Closing rapidly in defilade and fighting up close is how you counter the Lurm storm. And if the match on Polar is domination then you just hit the brawler's jackpot there is no better example of a target rich brawling enviorment than a bunch of mechs standing in the open on the other side of the hill your team is standing on.
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