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Mwowc 2018 -Stock Mode Only?


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#21 Nygen

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:14 AM

It took 10mins to search for the 2 best Heavy Mechs. Probably it takes 1 hour to figure out the other classes, another 30mins to check quirks and skill trees. In 2 hours I've got 2 Dropdecks I could test in a series of scrims (if I find somebody willing to) and adjust them. Now I would have two Dropdecks to use for the whole tournament, small adjustments aside, because all other Mechs are too ****** to use.

So, it boils down even more to the elementary skills; shooting, aiming, positioning, armor sharing, twisting, heat management. The seal clubbing the already established good teams will pull out will be even worse (if they even participate). And I assume it will be boring as **** to watch the streams (if they even are announced/advertised/happen at all). ggclose™

#beerleague #unfunningmwo #diversity #mwofuntowatch

Edited by Nygen, 06 June 2018 - 01:15 AM.


#22 Ssamout

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:42 AM

View PostJexvrok, on 05 June 2018 - 08:34 PM, said:

i like this idea for competitive play. and if you are a competitive player in any game, you spend the time to figure out what works and what doesn't with the given rules. i like the idea of being forced to try something different and at the moment difficult to figure out.
welcome to hard mode Posted Image

Nothing hard in it. Takes few hours to figure out what is usable and thats it. There is nothing difficult in it. If you can drive F1 racing cars, doing few circuits in go carts gonna go just fine. It just doesnt categorize as a top event in the field of race driving.

#23 War Steiner

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 03:19 AM

I like it. I'll be in the fight. However, I realize stock mechs, but rules also indicate consumables and skill tree. If that is the case, then using the checkbox for stock mechs is out. How is PGI going to account for this? Also, one ton of ammo is probably not enough. Can players drop items from their mechs to carry more ammo?

Either way, we Mariks will be doing what we do best - killing each other.

War.

#24 Muki39

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:44 AM

I feel like were going to see alot of clan mechs if its stock only

#25 Ssamout

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:52 AM

Plz post before reading anything, its always better that way.

There is no *click* box to tick, as this is played in comp queue, where restrictions are put in place. Not in a normal queue or private humping grounds. And. No clan mechs are gonna show up cos this is only a marketing campaign for MW5, not a serious competition.

Edited by Ssamout, 06 June 2018 - 05:53 AM.


#26 Surn

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 05:58 AM

Champion and Hero mechs are often viable

#27 RJF Volkodav

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 06:54 AM

This is ..... so bad

1) Killing variety - i would say it will be around 8 chassis used. Difference between mech efficiencies is too big for stock mechs.
2) Forcing players to play a game they dont play and viewers to watch the game they dont (and cant) play in QP/FP/S7
3) Stock = lowering ranged dps while having the same armor - forcing games to be brawl or running around for points only.

#28 StumbleBee

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 12:52 PM

View PostSurn, on 06 June 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:

Champion and Hero mechs are often viable


Heroes aren't available, and champions will revert to the base variant from which they were made. Most of them are viable because they use things like endo, DHS, and intelligent armor placement that won't be available in the tournament.

#29 SmokedJag

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 01:22 PM

No dog in comp but with MWO enhanced armor and other core game engine rules (i.e. no one leg kills), very few Level 1 'Mechs will do effective damage without being able to modify ammo.

#30 Vxheous

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 10:05 PM

View PostSmokedJag, on 06 June 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

No dog in comp but with MWO enhanced armor and other core game engine rules (i.e. no one leg kills), very few Level 1 'Mechs will do effective damage without being able to modify ammo.


Follow that logic to the conclusion.....every stock mech that uses ammo (except for a few that have 2-3 tons) will be far down the depth chart, leaving what type of mechs as the viable choice again?

#31 ClaymoreReIIik

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:19 AM

View PostVxheous, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:


Follow that logic to the conclusion.....every stock mech that uses ammo (except for a few that have 2-3 tons) will be far down the depth chart, leaving what type of mechs as the viable choice again?


Have you actually played an 8v8 with 3039 stock mechs before? IMHO the ammo count is like the 5th or 6th value you look at when comparing stock mechs. Most of the stock mechs are not entirely ammo dependent anyway.

I suggest you play a couple of scrims before you comdemn a game mode.

Regards,
Clay

#32 MischiefSC

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 12:55 AM

View PostVxheous, on 06 June 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:


Follow that logic to the conclusion.....every stock mech that uses ammo (except for a few that have 2-3 tons) will be far down the depth chart, leaving what type of mechs as the viable choice again?


I don't know how that gamble plays out. On one hand you've got ammo in side torsos and everyone will know exactly where. That... that's a problem.

On the other something like the BLK L is going to play pretty much just like if you built that mech in regular play but only used the in-engine heatsinks (assuming you have DHS) A smidge worse than just the 10 TrueDubs. You shoot two times and just hope the other team gets lost on the way to get to you because otherwise you can go make a sammich and come back waiting to cool down for another actual alpha. Compounded with having 3 LLs to play with much beyond 300m. And the leg armor of a medium.

Then you have mechs like the GHR, what should be a good choice for Canyon except for the bomb in its right torso. It would take almost a full minute of firing the LRM 5 in its head (even in tabletop that was just the stupidest thing ever) to empty the bin, all while signaling your location to the other team. The Kintaro laughs at this while sporting 2 tons in each side torso because why take a chance and make it possible to shield one side?

I will consider the whole concept a bust if I don't get to see some little **** in a PHX or Locust crit off an ammo explosion in an otherwise really dangerous mech, clinching a win with the divine blessing of RNGesus....

because that actually would be the most true to Battletech thing that could happen in MWOs history. Right up until we find that PGI has actually been making balance decisions by rolling 2d6 against a series of charts this whole time to decide what to change and by how much.

#33 ClaymoreReIIik

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 01:16 AM

View PostMischiefSC, on 07 June 2018 - 12:55 AM, said:


I don't know how that gamble plays out. On one hand you've got ammo in side torsos and everyone will know exactly where. That... that's a problem.

On the other something like the BLK L is going to play pretty much just like if you built that mech in regular play but only used the in-engine heatsinks (assuming you have DHS) A smidge worse than just the 10 TrueDubs. You shoot two times and just hope the other team gets lost on the way to get to you because otherwise you can go make a sammich and come back waiting to cool down for another actual alpha. Compounded with having 3 LLs to play with much beyond 300m. And the leg armor of a medium.

Then you have mechs like the GHR, what should be a good choice for Canyon except for the bomb in its right torso. It would take almost a full minute of firing the LRM 5 in its head (even in tabletop that was just the stupidest thing ever) to empty the bin, all while signaling your location to the other team. The Kintaro laughs at this while sporting 2 tons in each side torso because why take a chance and make it possible to shield one side?

I will consider the whole concept a bust if I don't get to see some little **** in a PHX or Locust crit off an ammo explosion in an otherwise really dangerous mech, clinching a win with the divine blessing of RNGesus....

because that actually would be the most true to Battletech thing that could happen in MWOs history. Right up until we find that PGI has actually been making balance decisions by rolling 2d6 against a series of charts this whole time to decide what to change and by how much.


Aiming for ammo locations would be a change from the full mod "CT or legs depending on range" stuff you see in every other incarnation of comp play, or wouldn't it?

I do not see that as a bad thing, per definition.

Knowing the weaknesses of the stock chassis and playing to exploit those is actually not a bad thing and it will be a skill to master.

I will laugh my *** off the first time a "pro light" gets ripped to shreds by LRMs because he forgot that stock wolfhounds/jenners/firstarters are slow enough to take damage and/or locusts/spiders have like no armor.

Edited by ClaymoreReIIik, 07 June 2018 - 01:16 AM.


#34 Vxheous

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 02:35 AM

View PostClaymoreReIIik, on 07 June 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:


Have you actually played an 8v8 with 3039 stock mechs before? IMHO the ammo count is like the 5th or 6th value you look at when comparing stock mechs. Most of the stock mechs are not entirely ammo dependent anyway.

I suggest you play a couple of scrims before you comdemn a game mode.

Regards,
Clay


You sound really defensive, when I did not condemn the game mode. I'm just telling you how comp mindset works when it comes to picking mechs. Good teams will still choose mechs based on minimizing their weaknesses (picking based on hitboxes/armor/structure + quirks, potential pitfalls of ammo/ammo location) and maximizing their strengths (how far can a mech shoot, how much damage can I put downfield).

As an example, I would rather take a Hunchback 4P over a Hunchback 4G, simply based on the fact that I can remove the Hunchback 4G's unquirked Left Torso where the ammo is stored in 2-3 hits. While the 4P has 7 single heatsinks in the same location and can equally lose those 7 heatsinks, I can continue to chainfire smaller groups of lasers with the 4P even after losing the torso, while the 4G's main gun is ammo less.

From the list of 3039 tech mechs that PGI has put out, there are maybe 15-17 viable chassis that fit the criteria that I described. That's actually less "good" mechs than what was used in the previous years of MWOWC, so mech diversity/selection is actually going down.

Edited by Vxheous, 07 June 2018 - 02:36 AM.


#35 Elizander

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:14 AM

Well, at least you can pick a pretty damn beefy brawl squad that will probably give your whole team a 50% or more armor advantage if the enemy picks the pokers. That Kintaro with 3 SRM6 has more CT armor than an Awesome (because someone though it would be a great idea for an Awesome to have that much back armor). Posted Image

Edited by Elizander, 07 June 2018 - 04:15 AM.


#36 Vxheous

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:26 AM

View PostElizander, on 07 June 2018 - 04:14 AM, said:

Well, at least you can pick a pretty damn beefy brawl squad that will probably give your whole team a 50% or more armor advantage if the enemy picks the pokers. That Kintaro with 3 SRM6 has more CT armor than an Awesome (because someone though it would be a great idea for an Awesome to have that much back armor). Posted Image


Yeah, that Kintaro is going to be a staple for most teams I think.

#37 Damnedtroll

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 05:41 AM

Stock mode ! That's so awesome !

#38 DrtyDshSoap

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 06:20 AM

View PostVxheous, on 07 June 2018 - 04:26 AM, said:


Yeah, that Kintaro is going to be a staple for most teams I think.

Pretty sure once everyone figures out which mechs aren't completely useless, we're going to see the same comps going against each other, or at least, as close to a mirror match as possible.

#39 Rushin Roulette

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:49 AM

View PostVxheous, on 07 June 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:

Good teams will still choose mechs based on minimizing their weaknesses (picking based on hitboxes/armor/structure + quirks, potential pitfalls of ammo/ammo location) and maximizing their strengths (how far can a mech shoot, how much damage can I put downfield).

Good teams will not only know this, but also know which mechs on the opposing team will have which weaknesses. Therefore you dont only learn your own mechs, but also those of the opponents ahead of time. Seeing as there are different Tier 1-2 mechs (and of course loads of tier potato mechs Posted Image ) for each role (sniping/harassing/brawling/skirmishing/running), there should not always be the same 8 mechs each round, as different teams will take the respective mechs fitting to their planned strategy. It also makes it relatively easy to figure out the opposing teams strategy by looking at their mech choices this way so that you can adjust your own strategy.

View PostDrtyDshSoap, on 07 June 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

Pretty sure once everyone figures out which mechs aren't completely useless, we're going to see the same comps going against each other, or at least, as close to a mirror match as possible.

As stated above, it will all boil down to which team chooses which strategy to initially follow. This way you may have completely different mechs on either side if one team wants to snipe (AWS and CPLT) against brawl (VTR and ON1). You can fill 2 teams with completely different mechs, which are all good in the respective classes. Its more of a Rock-Paper-PPC choice in the end.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 07 June 2018 - 07:49 AM.


#40 Elizander

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 07:50 AM

View PostDrtyDshSoap, on 07 June 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

Pretty sure once everyone figures out which mechs aren't completely useless, we're going to see the same comps going against each other, or at least, as close to a mirror match as possible.


With the tonnage limitation, picking up all 3 wolfhounds or the 1 + B and the Jenner F might not be bad for any situation and frees up a lot of tonnage at the top.





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