9 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

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PREFACE:

The Rework aims to redefine the PPCs roles, for them to better fit niches and at the same time work well with other weapons. Leave the meta behind, the PPCs as I try to redefine them is more than just for pokes. If you're going to argue from the standpoint of poking (except for PPC Capacitor, then you're missing the point.

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ER-PPC

Damage: 10
Speed: 2300
Heat: 11.5 (From 13.5)
Range [m]: 810 - 1620
Cooldown [s]: 4.5
GH Limit: 3 (From 2)

There's simply just little instance of where ERPPC is kinda useful. Sure it's good for long range where it's supposed to be, but long range is rarely the range. PPC is quite adequate for most distances, that the extra heat isn't necessary. And PPC is not even that much of a choice when talking about PPFLD cause HPPC.

With extra projectile speed offset by longer cooldown, it's further cemented to long range role. Being able to deliver 30 damage from afar is really important.

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PPC

Damage: 10
DPS: 2.5
Speed: 1350
Heat: 8.5 (from 9.5)
Range [m]: 90 - 540 - 1080 [Progressive Damage Min-Range]
Cooldown [s]: 4
GH Limit: 3 (From 2)

PPC currently has little to offer. It doesn't hit as hard as HPPCs, sure it's cold but it's still pretty hot. It has minimum range that further mitigates it's close range use. It's at an awkward place that it doesn't suck or excel at something, that it doesn't give much reason to be picked over other in specialized fields. The increase in GH limit allows it to compete with HPPC, as trading for 1 ton is - 1s of cooldown time. HPPCs is for better convergence and heat overtime, but PPCs could compete with better firing rate and DPS.

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SN-PPC

Damage: 10
Speed: 1050 (from 1200)
Heat: 8 (From 10)
Range [m]: 270 - 720 (from 270 - 630)
Cooldown [s]: 3.5
GH Limit: 3 (From 2)

SN-PPC is just too damn hot for it's short range, and it deters use with close-range builds where it's supposed to shine over the PPC. The extra range is there for the fact that it's supposed to be a bit longer range still. But the reduction in projectile speed is supposed to be the counterbalancing factor to make sure that it is still limited to short range despite increase in range, in addition of it being the relatively coolest PPC in terms of heat/damage. The reduced cooldown also makes this competitive against medium lasers.

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LPPC

Damage: 5
DPS: 2 (from 1.25)
Speed: 1200
Heat: 4.5 (from 5)
Range [m]: 90 - 540 - 1080 [Progressive Damage Min-Range]
Cooldown [s]: 2.5 (from 4)
GH Limit: 4 (From 3)

LPPC is literally blah, it's not that good on its own nor within it's GH Limit. And the target demographic mechs of the LPPC such as lights, won't have much use for it because of low damage/ton and most likely will just be scoffed at over other more sensible choice like ER ML.

By reducing CD, this becomes a bit more viable weapon, and the difference from other PPC behavior geared towards ACs would provide a uniqueness that would open up for different strategies, and would make LPPCs synergize with ACs.

Yes, PPCs are not supposed to be ACs, but all things considering, the difference in what role they could take up would allow them to have a niche in the field, as opposed of just which PPC hits harder in which invariably the rest of the PPC would be left out.

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HPPC

Damage: 15
DPS: 3
Speed: 1500
Heat: 12.5 (from 14.5)
Range [m]: 90 - 540 - 1080 [Progressive Damage Min-Range]
Cooldown [s]: 5

HPPC is relatively fine. In fact, the point of PPFLD is to dump most damage at a single point, in which HPPC does exceptionally well. The problem is the diversity (lack there-of) of roles within the entire series, it's just a matter of which dumps the most damage with what, and just a bit playing of heat and range, and because HPPC results the MOST damage dumped, then it will be invariably be picked with respect to meta.

Additional Notes:
- Difference in Projectile Speed is there to disturb PPC convergence between different sizes of PPC.
- LPPC and PPC no longer has dead-zone, but progressive damage min-range like HPPC. That they still do damage, but reduced as closer the target is with respect to minimum range.

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PPC Capacitor:

+ Damage
+ Velocity
+ CD
+ Charge Time
- DPS

The mechanism of how PPC capacitor would work is that, it will have + 1 ton and + 1 slot like Artemis and Missile Weapons, and costing more even. As a weapon, it would be literally a high-heat, low range, unlimited ammo, light-weight Gauss. CD is calculated by the DPS/ton of equivalent damage profile balanced by the difference in weight, minus 1 for the charge time.

The Idea of PPC Capacitor is that it increases the heat and damage, but if that is added vanilla with our weapon system then it will literally be unbalanced because we have weapon systems doing superior damage/ton with account for LPPC, and that's something we have to address, and so i chose to address it with severely reduced DPS and charge time, also reduced GH.

The Philosophy of PPC Capacitor is that, it would be a stand-in for doing good damage at a poke, but it would have worse DPS than their counterpart. It is only built for pure poking in mind. When push comes to shove, the low HPS would be great when weapons are being used as secondary to other weapons.

LPPC + Capacitor:

4 Ton
3 Slot

Damage: 10
Speed: 1400
Heat: 9.5
Range [m]: 90 - 540 - 1080 [Progressive Damage Min-Range]
Cooldown [s]: 6
Charge Time [s]: 1
DPS: 1.4285
GH Limit: 2

PPC + Capacitor:

8 Ton
4 Slot

Damage: 15
Speed: 1400
Heat: 13.5
Range [m]: 90 - 540 - 1080 [Progressive Damage Min-Range]
Cooldown [s]: 5.75
Charge Time [s]: 1
DPS: 2.2222
GH Limit: 2

SN-PPC + Capacitor:

7 Ton
3 Slot

Damage: 15
Speed: 1400
Heat: 13
Range [m]: 270 - 720
Cooldown [s]: 5.0
Charge Time [s]: 1
DPS: 2.5
GH Limit: 2

ER-PPC + Capacitor:


8 Ton
4 Slot

Damage: 15
Speed: 2400
Heat: 16.5
Range [m]: 810 - 1620
Cooldown [s]: 6
Charge Time [s]: 1
DPS: 2.1428
GH Limit: 2

HPPC + Capacitor:

11 Ton
5 Slot

Damage: 20
Speed: 1400
Heat: 17.5
Range [m]: 540 - 1080 [Progressive Damage Min-Range]
Cooldown [s]: 7.5
Charge Time [s]: 1.0
DPS: 2.3529
GH Limit: 2

Changes:
- Balanced Total heat with 2x HPPC and 3x PPC -- with 3x PPC having worse heat, and tweaked SNPPC.
- Rebalanced HPPC with minimum changes, and rebalanced the other PPCs with respect of HPPC as base.
- Rebalanced SNPPC to be competitive at close range.
- Rebalanced ERPPC to be better at long range.
- Added PPC Capacitor Concept -- it increases PPC damage, but adds CD and Charge time, enough to completely normalize DPS/Ton.
- Rebalanced Heat.
- Rebalanced Velocity.

[TOPIC]

Edited by The6thMessenger, 05 July 2018 - 04:17 PM.

[Christof Romulus]

Greetings Legendary The6thMessenger!

I'm going to have to disagree with you down the line except for the Light PPC which is awful... just ... awful.

ERPPC is limited in quickplay but amazing in faction warfare. Mechs that get PPC velocity quirks with this weapon can be beyond the beyond powerful, even in quickplay if you boat enough heatsinks. Yes, it's a niche weapon, but that niche does exist in MWO with certain mech chassis.

PPC is finally in a good place, honestly. It's a mediocre weapon and, if you run a mech that has nothing but energy hardpoints, exists for PPFLD.

SNPPC is great because this beauty can fit in a mech with CT energy hardpoints, despite its limited range. A tid bit too hot for my tastes when compared to the standard PPC, but in the same way the ERPPC is there for long range engagements, the SNPPC is there for close-range builds.

HPPC rocks. Can't say it any other way - 15 damage pinpoint. It is what it is. The cost is consummately large as well, using the slower PPC projectile speed (as compared to the ERPPC), high heat, heavy, and being quite large. HPPC in my opinion is quite balanced as it stands.

LPPC is hot garbage. Doesn't excel at anything. Two light PPCs = 1 regular PPC's damage, but hotter and no longer pinpoint, and it's the same weight AND using 2 makes it even use more critical slots... hot... garbage.

[The6thMessenger]

Christof Romulus, on 20 June 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

Greetings Legendary The6thMessenger!

I'm going to have to disagree with you down the line except for the Light PPC which is awful... just ... awful.

I never said that these are bad (except for LPPC), but they could be better at what they do. They could be better defined. I am not contesting that they aren't great despite the flexibility of builds such as the LPPC or SNPPC could provide, or the niche of the ERPPCs given with enough quirks. But as they stand, they could have been better.

Christof Romulus, on 20 June 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

ERPPC is limited in quickplay but amazing in faction warfare. Mechs that get PPC velocity quirks with this weapon can be beyond the beyond powerful, even in quickplay if you boat enough heatsinks. Yes, it's a niche weapon, but that niche does exist in MWO with certain mech chassis.

And the idea is that, it's less of a niche.

Christof Romulus, on 20 June 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

PPC is finally in a good place, honestly. It's a mediocre weapon and, if you run a mech that has nothing but energy hardpoints, exists for PPFLD.

And being a mediocre weapon is good for you? Really?

Christof Romulus, on 20 June 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

SNPPC is great because this beauty can fit in a mech with CT energy hardpoints, despite its limited range. A tid bit too hot for my tastes when compared to the standard PPC, but in the same way the ERPPC is there for long range engagements, the SNPPC is there for close-range builds.

So what if it could be put in the CT? Thats not even what i am contesting. The point was is that it's too hot for it's supposedly effective range -- close range. At close-range builds, it's not a range you ought to be building too much heat with.

Christof Romulus, on 20 June 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

HPPC rocks. Can't say it any other way - 15 damage pinpoint. It is what it is. The cost is consummately large as well, using the slower PPC projectile speed (as compared to the ERPPC), high heat, heavy, and being quite large. HPPC in my opinion is quite balanced as it stands.

Oh i agree, it is. But considering the changes upon the other system, this also needs to be tweaked cause it won't be standing where it was before.

[stealthraccoon]

I’m fine with regular PPC as-is.
Same with HPPC, in a good place - also sounds great.
erPPC I don’t have much use for, just too hot, but admittedly fun to lob across maps for psychological effect.
SNPPC should be a favorite of mine, but it’s just too hot - I do love the sound effects and CT capability.
LPPC doesn’t really perform well, but I adore them on some builds; I really like two or three grouped close (like on my UM-R60/63). Could benefit from a little less heat and a little less cooldown. I do agree with the 3 ghost heat trigger if they are tweaked.

I dunno, what about making SNPPC same heat/cooldown as regular PPC, LPPC as half heat, but with 3.5 cooldown?

Edited by stealthraccoon, 21 June 2018 - 08:17 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

FYI, the HPPC on Live does not have progressive damage fall-off under 90 meters; it's a hard 0 damage limit same as the PPC and LPPC. The CW PTS gave it exponential fall-off in exchange for only being 1.5+12+1.5 damage.

Just in case there is some confusion, there.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 21 June 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 June 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

FYI, the HPPC on Live does not have progressive damage fall-off under 90 meters; it's a hard 0 damage limit same as the PPC and LPPC. The CW PTS gave it exponential fall-off in exchange for only being 1.5+12+1.5 damage.

Just in case there is some confusion, there.

Okay, granted.

But the system would still integrate progressive damage fall off for the HPPC.

[Y E O N N E]

The6thMessenger, on 21 June 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Okay, granted.

But the system would still integrate progressive damage fall off for the HPPC.

Sure, I just thought accurate wording was important here. I would not want voters thinking the HPPC already has something that it doesn't and weighting their opinion accordingly.

[MechanicalWraith]

I voted yes to all because I deem PPCs as they stand now to be underwhelming. My past suggestions for improving PPCs included some of yours, (albeit with a greater increase to DPS) along with a charge-up mechanism like gauss (and shared with) in order to prevent sync-firing and mitigate the oh-so-scary PPFLD that PGI is?/was?/will-next-tuesday? be nerfing. Essentially I advocate (a lot) more power with the trade-off that PPCs become more difficult to use.

To proponents of the laser-vomit meta, armor values in MWO are such that a direct improvement to PPCs' DPS - without altering dmg/heat ratios - will not threaten the general-use supremacy that lasers currently hold.

[BTGbullseye]

While I like the idea, if you're going to increase the GH limit, leave the regular heat where it is. Also, the capacitor shouldn't be a 100% boost to LPPC damage.

+2 damage, +0.5s cooldown, +1 slot.

[catsonmeth]

It'd be nice if LPPCs weren't useless. They'd be okay for suppression if it wasn't for the heat and cooldown, and min range makes it awful for general use. Sure, it weighs less than the AC5, but I'd much, MUCH rather have one AC than three LPPCs.