148 replies to this topic

[SFC174]

....everyone, and I mean everyone should cancel their Hellfire orders right now. Even if PGI dials the nerfs back by half (which is what they'll do and claim that they "listen well") why would anyone buy a Clan laservomit mech at this point? You'd have to be a masochist or just have an overwhelming need to own every mech as soon as it comes out.

So if you believe PGI is way off with the nerfs, use the only language you know they'll listen to. #CancelHellfireOrders

p.s. - if you're an IS junkie who loves that Clans are getting bent over, you should buy a Hellfire even if you'll never play it. Let's see which side "communicates" better.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Commendable initiative. Only canceling of course.

I canceled mine BAsp and Hellfire preorders right after May patchnotes so can't do more.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Quote

To reiterate what Paul said in his "Future Balance Discussions and Planning" thread, the overall solution that we are looking to implement is one that directly addresses the damage discrepancy between the effective alpha damage cap of 94 damage on the Clan side compared to the 60-65 damage that the Inner Sphere typically caps out at.

They compare apples to stones, as usual. They take the max dmg that a handful of clan mechs can get to the average ("typical") of what a bunch of IS mechs can get. And of course they ignore the durability quirks that all IS mechs received.
People Generally Ignorant... PGI

[SFC174]

Nema Nabojiv, on 07 July 2018 - 05:36 AM, said:

Commendable initiative. Only canceling of course.

I canceled mine BAsp and Hellfire preorders right after May patchnotes so can't do more.

I cancelled my Hellfire pre-order as well when they first announced the clan laser nerfs back then. Didn't reup when they cancelled the proposed nerfs because, well, I didn't trust them.

[VonBruinwald]

Alternatively, you could join the PTS and help provide them with actual data that proves them wrong... If you're really paranoid they might be right, play badly.

But as we all know, throwing a tantrum and cancelling pre-orders carries more weight than actual evidnce.

[Ensaine]

VonBruinwald, on 07 July 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

Alternatively, you could join the PTS and help provide them with actual data that proves them wrong... If you're really paranoid they might be right, play badly.

But as we all know, throwing a tantrum and cancelling pre-orders carries more weight than actual evidnce.

The PTS that only does 4v4? If you're going to say test compression on a 12 cyl engine, do you use a 4cyl just because?

As I've mentioned in another thread, this is simply going to be flawed data, from a flawed testing platform, put in place by flawed thinking.

[KodiakGW]

That would require having to buy a preorder after being burned so many times with underperforming mechs, useless or nonexistent quirks, or serious WTF weapon placement. Even a very desirable camo unlock no longer entice me to make a preorder. I believe the last preorder I did, besides the Solaris one because I promised to make when challenging them to address 8v8, was the Thanatos.

[eminus]

If only I could cancel my NIGHTSTAR!!!!

[SFC174]

VonBruinwald, on 07 July 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

Alternatively, you could join the PTS and help provide them with actual data that proves them wrong... If you're really paranoid they might be right, play badly.

But as we all know, throwing a tantrum and cancelling pre-orders carries more weight than actual evidnce.

I've played every PTS since I joined the game. It hasn't really mattered.

Regardless, you don't need a PTS to know that every clan laser touched in this PTS has been nerfed in far more than just alpha damage. They've lost DPS and they have lost DPH. It's pretty much a blanket nerf. Do you disagree? What evidence do you need besides the new stats to know this?

Yes, you can group fire 3 large lasers now, but that doesn't change the fact that all those lasers have been f***ed. What player of reasonable experience and intelligence would need a PTS to tell them that any clan laser mech you play is going to be worse, save perhaps some edge cases like the 6 ERLL SNV (only because it's trading face time for less damage - and good luck with that in a 4v4 mode)? My HBK-IIC-A will be objectively worse whether I run it with LPL/ERML, MPL, HLL/ERML, etc. PGI is taking a lot away and giving almost nothing in return. If they took away alpha but maintained DPS and DPH, then the PTS would be a useful tool to see whether or not mechs and playstyles could be adapted for that. But when an IS ERML and MPL are arguably better than the Clan equivalent before you put them on a seriously quirked IS mech, we have a problem.

Finally, don't be so condescending (I think you're being worse than that, but I'm being polite). Cancelling a pre-order is not throwing a tantrum. It's the best way to send a message to PGI, because unless Russ has you followed on Twitter, he's not going to listen to you. We exchange money (some of us) for a game experience. If PGI damages the game experience, they must be made to know it will damage their income. One hand washes the other.

edit - p.s. - I'm fully in favor of a reduced alpha as long as DPS and DPH are kept the same (or even slightly improved). While I do well with the Clan lasvomit meta, it's boring as hell. I like the flexibility provided by being able to fire more often, even if it means some more face time in my paper armored clan mechs. But reduced alpha, reduced dps and reduced dph are completely pointless.

Edited by SFC174, 07 July 2018 - 07:57 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

SFC174, on 07 July 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

If they took away alpha but maintained DPS and DPH, then the PTS would be a useful tool to see whether or not mechs and playstyles could be adapted for that. But when an IS ERML and MPL are arguably better than the Clan equivalent before you put them on a seriously quirked IS mech, we have a problem.

Maybe you should tell them that, even if you also cancel your Hellfire. If no-one suggests compromises or other solutions, PGI will just forge ahead with the planned changes. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution.

[Nik Reaper]

I could probly live with most of those changes, but anyone notice that by those changes Clan ErMl is the only laser weapon that has higher heat then damage, the only other energy weapon like that being IS ErPPC?

ErMl heat should be 5 or under and damage about 5.5 to 6...

[Luminis]

VonBruinwald, on 07 July 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

But as we all know, throwing a tantrum and cancelling pre-orders carries more weight than actual evidnce.

After playing the game for a while, you'll inevitably realise that PGI doesn't really do all that well going by "data" they gather.

The very conclusion of the PTS could very well be that the changes are utterly nonsensical and it would not matter one bit unless there that notion was reinforced by cancelled pre-orders and the like.

Just PGI things.

[SFC174]

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 July 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

Maybe you should tell them that, even if you also cancel your Hellfire. If no-one suggests compromises or other solutions, PGI will just forge ahead with the planned changes. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution.

You saw the community balance document, right? I support that wholeheartedly. Have tried to communicate that as much as possible. Posted on the original announcement thread for this PTS as well. But in reality, PGI has wanted to forge ahead on Clan laser nerfs for some time, and they're going to follow their template of push a big nerf and then pull back and claim compromise. Writings on the wall and I think only an impact to their bottom line will get through their skull armor.

[Jay Leon Hart]

SFC174, on 07 July 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

You saw the community balance document, right? I support that wholeheartedly. Have tried to communicate that as much as possible. Posted on the original announcement thread for this PTS as well. But in reality, PGI has wanted to forge ahead on Clan laser nerfs for some time, and they're going to follow their template of push a big nerf and then pull back and claim compromise. Writings on the wall and I think only an impact to their bottom line will get through their skull armor.

You saw PGI (essentially) say "that's cute, but no" WRT that document, right? It's dead, #LetItGo.

If you know PGI will forge ahead with a nerf, then surely you would want it to be a smaller one, rather than a larger one? Why not tell them that (again)?

[SFC174]

I've said all I can say to them. $$$ is the only language left. I've already cancelled my pre-orders and included the reason why in my email to support. I could quit the game, but if I were ready to do that, why bother posting here?

That said, it really feels like they're trying to force people into IS mechs. I have some IS mechs I'm very fond of, but I don't like being told what to play. But the builds and mechs I can run on my clan collection is already much more limited than it was a year or two ago. It will get even worse with these changes. I can certainly see a lot of people going "last straw" on this sort of nerf, even when PGI inevitably dial it back in the guise of "compromise". Maybe I'll reach my last straw too. We'll see.

[SFC174]

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 July 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

You saw PGI (essentially) say "that's cute, but no" WRT that document, right?

Yeah, that attitude is so freakin offensive too. Their response showed their contempt for the player base as well as their complete inability to grasp how the game is played/how it works. The team that put that document together is sooo much more in touch with game mechanics, playstyles and strengths/weaknesses than anyone working for PGI right now. I think that bothers PGI that a bunch of guys in their free time without being paid put together something so comprehensive and well thought out. Too much ego I suspect.

[MischiefSC]

This isn't new idea. It also doesn't influence anything. We have all done this on every subject or change.

If you're not happy with something, don't buy it. It's not likely to make a change like this though.

[Jay Leon Hart]

SFC174, on 07 July 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

The team that put that document together is sooo much more in touch with game mechanics, playstyles and strengths/weaknesses than anyone working for PGI right now. I think that bothers PGI that a bunch of guys in their free time without being paid put together something so comprehensive and well thought out.

Eh, agree to disagree. Some changes look good, other not so much. Since I refuse to participate in the cesspool that is Reddit, I'll leave them to argue amongst themselves.

SFC174, on 07 July 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

That said, it really feels like they're trying to force people into IS mechs. I have some IS mechs I'm very fond of, but I don't like being told what to play. But the builds and mechs I can run on my clan collection is already much more limited than it was a year or two ago.

I feel the opposite, I've been (generally) happier with the Clan releases than the IS ones as-of -late. Fafnir & Blood Asp being exceptions.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

Nik Reaper, on 07 July 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

I could probly live with most of those changes, but anyone notice that by those changes Clan ErMl is the only laser weapon that has higher heat then damage, the only other energy weapon like that being IS ErPPC?

ErMl heat should be 5 or under and damage about 5.5 to 6...

Actually with the proposed damage nerf, cERLL will have more heat than damage, current is 11D to 10.8 H PTS will be 10D to 10.8H.

Edited by Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain, 07 July 2018 - 08:29 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Oi lads, do any of you have a grinder handy? I fancy sharpening my pitchfork. Oh yeah, and nerf PGI or something.