76 replies to this topic

[Eisenhorne]

Drunk Canuck, on 19 July 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

It's almost ironic that the people on this very forum and Twitter in particular, who have constantly complained about getting rekt by pin point builds, are now the same players getting rekt by significantly better players running their potato launchers. It's great for a laugh personally.

LRM's were never awful in team play so long as you committed to coordinating, however they were not optimal for killing enemies. But they are downright cancerous in solo play because the average player does not know how to utilize them properly and expects the rest of their team to retain locks for them. Standing at the back and not positioning makes them completely ineffective, which is why assaults with LRM's are absolutely useless.

Have you ever played a coordinated LRM team with a good narc light on caustic, alpine, boreal, or polar in faction play? It's terrible, even for good players.

[justcallme A S H]

You can do it on just about any map TBH - Even in GroupQ... Don't need it to be FP.

[Yondu Udonta]

Meili, on 19 July 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

I'm too busy cringing at all of the team damage you are showing/committing. But hey, must. get. kill.

The meta will change like the tide and the path of least resistance will always be the goal.

I admit, that was the first time I piloted a clag mech in FP in probably 2 years. I'm terrible at judging if my low-slung missile rack will clear my teammate.

Drunk Canuck, on 19 July 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

It's almost ironic that the people on this very forum and Twitter in particular, who have constantly complained about getting rekt by pin point builds, are now the same players getting rekt by significantly better players running their potato launchers. It's great for a laugh personally.

LRM's were never awful in team play so long as you committed to coordinating, however they were not optimal for killing enemies. But they are downright cancerous in solo play because the average player does not know how to utilize them properly and expects the rest of their team to retain locks for them. Standing at the back and not positioning makes them completely ineffective, which is why assaults with LRM's are absolutely useless.

They were not optimal but now they are more than ******* optimal. If you have seen how quickly mechs disappear on either side when narced or tagged you would come to that judgement yourself. And YoloQ and FP are two entirely different sides of the game. On one side you get lurmers who keep launching lurms at a target under cover while on the other side you have people who communicate, narc/tag and focus fire. There's other points in your post that are wrong but I cannot be bothered to address them as they are out of the mentioned topic.

[Ssamout]

Eisenhorne, on 19 July 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

Have you ever played a coordinated LRM team with a good narc light on caustic, alpine, boreal, or polar in faction play? It's terrible, even for good players.

I'd hazard to guess he has. Most veteran players/units have played with a coordinated lrm team with narcs/spotters and stomped their opposition. Even the ones who dis and throw the most salt on them launchers.
Playing with lrms is just so damn boring. Click click click click, oh we won. Only the narc/spotters have to really play in a lrm deck, rest can just lumber out of shadow, keep a distance to each other, and click away. In the past lrms were taken to the field after 10 or some beers, never when u are sober. Nowadays they just play some other game.

Edited by Ssamout, 20 July 2018 - 02:48 AM.

[Charles Sennet]

Besides the issues of lowering the skill ceiling, the proliferation of LRM's we are seeing now severely limits the choice people have in what mechs to field. Don't have dual/triple AMS and/or overlapping ECM with 12 pilots then you're screwed. For the IS it neither has enough ECM mechs and it has zero mechs with triple AMS. This lack of viable selection has got to be a concern for PGI. This game is built on variety and take that away and you might as play something else. #REDALERTPGI

[S O L A I S]

Charles Sennet, on 29 July 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

Besides the issues of lowering the skill ceiling, the proliferation of LRM's we are seeing now severely limits the choice people have in what mechs to field. Don't have dual/triple AMS and/or overlapping ECM with 12 pilots then you're screwed. For the IS it neither has enough ECM mechs and it has zero mechs with triple AMS. This lack of viable selection has got to be a concern for PGI. This game is built on variety and take that away and you might as play something else. #REDALERTPGI

Forgot the ECM and especially forget the AMS "support" mechs (seriously people stop bringing that crap to CW).

Funny thing is you already are doing the counter since I have seen you a lot lately running those cool running ranged ac/2 mechs.

You want to counter lurms on Caustic, bring what you are already doing or bring a bunch of erlarge lazor mechs. Worry about the ECM if you get domination and if you are dead set against running lurms to counter lurms you can for the most part simply out range them. Max lurming is still what 1100 tops?

Wanna get real fancy with it rush em with Assassins, Crabs, or Linebackers. Assassins on Alpine is particularly fun.

[Eisenhorne]

S O L A I S, on 01 August 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:

Forgot the ECM and especially forget the AMS "support" mechs (seriously people stop bringing that crap to CW).

Funny thing is you already are doing the counter since I have seen you a lot lately running those cool running ranged ac/2 mechs.

You want to counter lurms on Caustic, bring what you are already doing or bring a bunch of erlarge lazor mechs. Worry about the ECM if you get domination and if you are dead set against running lurms to counter lurms you can for the most part simply out range them. Max lurming is still what 1100 tops?

Wanna get real fancy with it rush em with Assassins, Crabs, or Linebackers. Assassins on Alpine is particularly fun.

One potentially very fun IS counter to LRM's on hot maps is the Stealth Gauss Thanatos. It can move 65 KPH, has 72 rounds of Gauss ammo, can jump, and has decent armor to make up for bad hitboxes. You could run 3x Stealth Thanatos + a Stealth Assassin, and be literally immune to LRM's unless NARC'd. And Gauss rifles are ideal for killing NARC lights, and if everyone has ECM you can just go near a non-narc'd buddy.

Many clanners seem to be unaware of Stealth armor and what it does. I ran a Stealth Assassin last night in scouting against a 10D and friends group (LRM specialists) who seemed confused, because afterwards one of them said, "But I had tag on you at 700 meters!" and the other implied it was a hack. Stealth armor cannot be countered by TAG, only NARC.

So I'm going to start bringing stealth mechs to maps where I expect to encounter CLAG. It may not have the 4 ERML extra that the Gausshammer does, but it has higher hardpoints and stealth, which I think are nice compensations.

[Charles Sennet]

S O L A I S, on 01 August 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:

Forgot the ECM and especially forget the AMS "support" mechs (seriously people stop bringing that crap to CW).

Funny thing is you already are doing the counter since I have seen you a lot lately running those cool running ranged ac/2 mechs.

You want to counter lurms on Caustic, bring what you are already doing or bring a bunch of erlarge lazor mechs. Worry about the ECM if you get domination and if you are dead set against running lurms to counter lurms you can for the most part simply out range them. Max lurming is still what 1100 tops?

Wanna get real fancy with it rush em with Assassins, Crabs, or Linebackers. Assassins on Alpine is particularly fun.

And we do some of this when in coordinated pre-mades. Hard to get PUG-ie groups to buy into rushes especially when you get insta-matches and only have 60 seconds to swap out drop decks/mechs.

My real problem is how easy LRM's have become to use. Starting to see even highly-skilled pilots take them because the damage potential eclipses direct fire. This is not good for a skill-based game like MWO.

[Xannatharr]

LRMs:
• Another core point we balance against is the choices within the 'Mechlab. We do not want there to be dead weight within the 'Mechlab.
• Prior to the velocity buffs the LRMs where a sub par weapon system at most levels of play. And even with the most recent buffs to the weapon system, they are still a fairly sub-par weapon system over the general lineup.
• With buffs to the baseline equipment, the ease of use and the force multipliers have come under the microscope.
• Coming August patch, we will be hitting the ease of use of the weapon as well as a number of the force multipliers for the weapon. Including:
o Around a 50% tightening of the weapon lock angle.
o Artemis boosts to lock on times and tracking removed. For LRM's it will only tighten the spread on the missile launchers.
o NARC seeing a 100% increase in cooldown.
o ECM getting a range boost.
• Open to further changes post August patch provided those changes are not made with the intent to simply remove the weapon from the overall weapon roster.
• Weapon system changes never off the table as a discussion point, but it is not something that we can definitively state.

Edited by Xannatharr, 08 August 2018 - 01:29 PM.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Xannatharr, on 08 August 2018 - 01:29 PM, said:

LRMs:
• Another core point we balance against is the choices within the 'Mechlab. We do not want there to be dead weight within the 'Mechlab.
• Prior to the velocity buffs the LRMs where a sub par weapon system at most levels of play. And even with the most recent buffs to the weapon system, they are still a fairly sub-par weapon system over the general lineup.
• With buffs to the baseline equipment, the ease of use and the force multipliers have come under the microscope.
• Coming August patch, we will be hitting the ease of use of the weapon as well as a number of the force multipliers for the weapon. Including:
o Around a 50% tightening of the weapon lock angle.
o Artemis boosts to lock on times and tracking removed. For LRM's it will only tighten the spread on the missile launchers.
o NARC seeing a 100% increase in cooldown.
o ECM getting a range boost.
• Open to further changes post August patch provided those changes are not made with the intent to simply remove the weapon from the overall weapon roster.
• Weapon system changes never off the table as a discussion point, but it is not something that we can definitively state.

LRMs have always been what they are now, the velocity buff made little difference against AMS, the fact that the buff brought LRMs back to the attention of the masses is what made the difference. Used individually LRMs are useless but en-masse they can be devastating.
We can all remember Polar Highlands against a pre-made with LRMs before the patch I am sure. The answer was, and still is, everyone brings AMS and / or ECM.

Also on a side note, if you ARE going to use LRMS *PLEASE* stop ripple firing LRM 5s, you're doing it wrong!

[Teonas]

Daggett, on 16 July 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

Uhm... how can this be proof? This was a staged match where everyone on both sides seem to run a lurm-boat, what did you expect?

I had that pleasure attacking Boreal Vault, went 10:48 because they got bored and sortied. Thats what I call a waste of time.

[Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS]

The new FW meta is Pirannah waves followed by LRM boats.

10 LRM boats for LRM 800 - two narcers.


Thanks Chris!


If you want to fix something so that it isn't a throw away weapon, the regular clan AC would like a few words with you.

[K O Z A K]

Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS, on 12 August 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

The new FW meta is Pirannah waves followed by LRM boats.

10 LRM boats for LRM 800 - two narcers.


Thanks Chris!


If you want to fix something so that it isn't a throw away weapon, the regular clan AC would like a few words with you.

#newmeta

pgi made us do it

what the hell is a regular clan AC?

[C H E E K I E Z]

Hazeclaw, on 12 August 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

#newmeta

pgi made us do it

what the hell is a regular clan AC?

The 8 ac2 dire wolf, 5 ac2 night gyr. The 4 ac10 Kodiak, the 4ac2 hunchie would like a word with you.

[K O Z A K]

but then all my sh*t won't jam every other time I pull the trigger............what's the fun in that

[Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS]

C H E E K I E Z, on 12 August 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

The 8 ac2 dire wolf, 5 ac2 night gyr. The 4 ac10 Kodiak, the 4ac2 hunchie would like a word with you.

Lets count how many non ultra autocannon clan builds we actually see vs how many lurm boats we see.

Then we can have words together on how one is everywhere, every match, and one is hardly ever used.

[C H E E K I E Z]

I mean, you can put lurms on anything and it does not make it good. There are a few good missle-boats that clans have, Orion IIC-A, Supernova-A, i honestly dont like the mad dog as a lrm boat, but others do for some dumb reason. And i think like maybe a nova cat or something idk. The reason people bring lurms is because there is no Aim requirement, using Balistics, espically Clan balistics requires aim, and a steady hand, and actually looking at your target. That is why you see them every match, not because they are better or worse.