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Alpha Balance Pts 1.1 Friday July 27Th


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#1 InnerSphereNews

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:40 PM

Greetings MechWarriors,
Following up on Alpha Balance PTS 1.0, we will be conducting a second round of PTS testing that will be referred to as Alpha Balance PTS 1.1. This test will have two major changes from PTS 1.0:
  • A handful of Clan lasers will be reworked adding back some of their previous damage potency, but at the cost of increased laser duration.
  • A handful of Inner Sphere ‘Mechs will have their defensive quirks reduced.

Based on feedback from the player base, we will be testing an alternative method of bringing the Clan lasers into line based around increased weapon duration to allow for heavier damage lasers. We also recognize that greater offensive parity with the Inner Sphere weapons has resulted in many IS 'Mechs having heavier defensive quirks that may be a bit too high for Clan 'Mechs to compete against and will be testing reductions to a handful of high performers from PTS 1.0.
We would also like to stress that the core Quirk system's main functions are to provide Corrective Quirks for geometry that may see inherit disadvantages in-game (the Hunchback's hunch being a prime example) and to provide light Flavor Quirks to 'Mechs with unique playstyles in-game. Since the introduction of the Skill Tree’s native defensive Quirks, which were not reduced with its introduction, they have become a de-facto barrier to entry for many Inner Sphere 'Mechs to be considered viable against Clan alternatives. While we do not seek to remove them as a form of Corrective or Flavor Quirk, their status as a barrier to entry for viability with Inner Sphere 'Mechs is something that directly goes against our primary intention of the Quirk system. This is why changes that push this dial towards better baseline balance between the two factions, moving away from this barrier to entry for viability, is something that we wish to test with this incoming PTS.
As with PTS 1.0, none of these changes are final, and we are still considering other avenues of testing internally that may be brought into future PTS testing sessions. While we know some have requested a follow-up to the original testing, we feel that it will be more constructive to initiate that discussion upon examination of the results of PTS 1.1 compared to PTS 1.0. We will be breaking down our results when we feel that we have something definitive that we can share.
Weapon Changes (note all alterations are notated from PTS 1.0)
C-ER Medium Laser:
• Damage increased to 6.25 (from 5.25)
• Duration increased to 1.38 (from 1.25)
• Cooldown increased to 4.25 (from 4)
• Range decreased to 370 (from 400)

C-ER Large Laser
• Duration increased to 1.6 (from 1.35)

C- Medium Pulse Laser
• Duration increased to 1.17 (from 0.9)
• Damage increased to 6.5 (from 6)

C-Large Pulse Laser
• Duration increased to 1.3 (from 1.9)

C- Heavy Medium Laser
• Damage returned to 10 (from 8)
• Duration increased to 1.6 (from 1.45)

C- Heavy Large Laser
• Damage returned to 18 (from 16)
• Duration increased to 1.75 (from 1.55)

The following breakdown highlights these changes throughout the previous PTS 1.0 testing compared to their live values:

C-ER SML LASER

Damage

Heat

Cooldown

Range

Max Range

Duration

Live

5

3.5

3.5

200

400

1.1

PTS 1

4.4

3.2

3.2

200

400

1.1

PTS 1.1

4.4

3.2

3.2

200

400

1.1

C-ER MED LASER

Damage

Heat

Cooldown

Range

Max Range

Duration

Live

7

6.3

4.5

400

800

1.25

PTS 1

5.25

5.7

4

400

800

1.25

PTS 1.1

6.25

5.7

4.25

370

800

1.38

C-ER LRG LASER

Damage

Heat

Cooldown

Range

Max Range

Duration

Live

11

10.8

4

740

1480

1.35

PTS 1

10

10.8

4

740

1480

1.35

PTS 1.1

10

10.8

4

740

1480

1.6

C-MED PULSE LASER

Damage

Heat

Cooldown

Range

Max Range

Duration

Live

7

4.75

3

330

480

0.9

PTS 1

6.25

4.5

3

330

480

0.9

PTS 1.1

6.5

4.5

3

330

480

1.17

C-LRG PULSE LASER

Damage

Heat

Cooldown

Range

Max Range

Duration

Live

12

10

3.2

600

840

1.09

PTS 1

10

10

3.2

600

840

1.09

PTS 1.1

10

10

3.2

600

840

1.2

C-Heavy Medium Laser

Damage

Heat

Cooldown

Range

Max Range

Duration

Live

10

8

5.5

270

540

1.45

PTS 1

8

7

5.5

270

540

1.45

PTS 1.1

10

7

5.5

270

540

1.6

C-Heavy Large Laser

Damage

Heat

Cooldown

Range

Max Range

Duration

Live

18

16

5.75

450

900

1.55

PTS 1

16

16

5.75

450

900

1.55

PTS 1.1

18

16

5.75

450

900

1.75

Inner Sphere Armor Changes.

The following Inner Sphere designs have seen a reduction to their current defensive quirks:
  • Bushwacker: All variants
  • Cyclops: Sleipnir
  • Annihilator: All variants
  • Fafnir: All variants

We would like to thank all of those that have provided feedback on this matter. Feel free to continue to provide feedback in the PTS forums.




#2 A Headless Chicken

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:45 PM

What is this Sliphnir? Is it a new hero?

To complement more unnecessary changes? Increasing duration AND reducing damage basically makes Clan lasers not worth taking. Time to try and find another playstyle - yes, try because most are dead. Thanks PGI.

Edited by A Headless Chicken, 25 July 2018 - 05:54 PM.


#3 Yumoshiri

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:51 PM

I fail to understand why cmpl has a longer duration than erml.

#4 Navid A1

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:54 PM

Good changes in PTS 1.1 compared to PTS 1.0:

- C-ERML damage increase
- C-MPL damage increase
- C-HML damage increase
- C-HLL damage increase




Bad changes:

- C-ERSL remains borderline useless for no good reason
- C-ERML range decrease... why?
- C-HML duration increase... that weapon is already in a museum... why is it taking a hit?
- C-MPL nerfs are totally uncalled for!!
- C-LPL duration is increased for no reason. CLPL is already extinct due to existence of C-ERLL, and C-HLL
- C-LPL is too hot for no reason, its a 2 TON heavier pulse laser, treat it they same way as other pulse lasers.
- I remember a time in the past when CERLL and CHLL were considered garbage due to very long duration... lets not go back there.
- No elimination of Gauss recoil (calling it now: they will release gauss recoil to live client claiming that it received positive feedback)



Also, regarding C-ERLL specifically:

You have reduced its damage to justify a ghost heat limit increase to 4. As mentioned earlier, this change is only a boost to mechs that could already boat a lot of C-ERLLs and heat sinks, which are part of the problem you are trying to solve.

I suggest going easy on duration nerf, Or revert its damage nerf.
Or as a third option, reduce its heat.

Ghost heat limit increase is not a relevant compensation.
imagine a clan light with 2 C-ERLLs. Its already limited by the massive heat generation of the weapon... Ghost heat limit increase does nothing to compensate damage and duration nerf on that mech


Same thing for C-LPL


And finally, since this is a PTS, why don't you increase C-SPL damage to 5 (with adjustment to other stats) to prove that we are all wrong?

Edited by Navid A1, 26 July 2018 - 10:26 PM.


#5 Naglinator

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 05:58 PM

Still no reason to punish ERSML or MPL, hell or even LPL. And ANOTHER ERML range nerf? Why not just remove the E from it...

#6 Mikayshen

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:05 PM

I'm not sure what varients are...

I primarily play IS and don't see a majority of these changes as being necessary.

*edit* So what's the warhorn reward for doing 10 matches? Posted Image Can it be 90 Clan Wolf Warhorns? Please? Pretty Please?

Edited by Mikayshen, 25 July 2018 - 06:07 PM.


#7 MrSomaru

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:08 PM

I'm sorry, but these changes feel like someone passed out at the computer and accidentally saved it. This... Is not right. Why can't we simply buff underperforming things to be reasonably on par with the high powered outliers? I am just... baffled at this bizarre approach. Want to nerf lasers? increase twist speed. Make it so mechs can actually spread the damage and punish those that don't. It's even mentioned (although poorly) in the academy.

I'm just... confused.

#8 Nightbird

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:08 PM

DPS/ton still not balanced between IS/Clan. Nothing to see here.

#9 Rydiak

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:08 PM

Please proofread that entire post, Tina. Even the colored table has inaccurate values in it.

#10 Wing 0

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:14 PM

The clan gauss still carry that recoil BS then HELL NO. Not going to support a Dev group with money when they are taking things in the wrong direction.

Edited by Wing 0, 25 July 2018 - 06:17 PM.


#11 Kin3ticX

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:17 PM

Pros: PGI is starting to consider changing numbers of some of those sacred cows #s like 7 Damage ERML. Never thought they could gather the courage. I like that a lot, this opens up options to get stuff done.

Cons: I think fine tuning this stuff is great but its not enough. Need to take a look at Gauss/PPC, a predator that was removed from the toolkit. Maybe PGI would find lasers don't need as much a nerf if it has to compete with other predators that once were.

Also, no JJ or agility buffs. Paul himself suggested a JJ buff back in FEB 18 during those Dane townhalls but nowhere in sight! Jump fighting isnt really a thing right now but I understand the concern it could come back too strong even with a tiny buff.

I am kinda neutral on these laser changes only because so many variables come into play if we are talking a real makeover for balance and not just piecemealing.

Without taking a look and ghost heat and agility, not sure if this can be as good as we need.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 25 July 2018 - 06:19 PM.


#12 -Ramrod-

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:19 PM

Please abandon this. Nobody wants it and it's not necessary.

#13 A Headless Chicken

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:23 PM

View Post-Ramrod-, on 25 July 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Please abandon this.


PGI, along with quite a few players already abandoned the game though?

#14 The6thMessenger

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:30 PM

This is just sad. Don't get me wrong, the CHLL is on point, but a lot of the PTS is just still bad.

CLPL and CERLL doubled down on reduced damaged and increased duration. Clan ERML has lesser range when range is supposedly it's core strength.

Could we ever just get this please?

Quote

CLAN:

- ERSL Damage: 5
- ERSL Duration: 1.0
- ERSL Cooldown: 3.0
- ERSL Range: 250m - 500m
- ERML Damage: 6
- ERML Heat: 5.4
- ERML Duration: 1.25
- ERML Cooldown: 3.5
- ERML Range: 400m - 800m
- ERLL Damage: 10
- ERLL Duration: 1.45
- ERLL Cooldown: 4.0
- ERLL Range: 720m - 1440m

- SPL Damage: 5
- SPL Heat: 2
- SPL Duration: 0.6
- SPL Cooldown: 2.4
- SPL Range: 180m - 400m
- MPL Damage: 6
- MPL Heat: 4
- MPL Duration: 0.8
- MPL Cooldown: 3.0
- LPL Range: 360m - 720m
- LPL Damage: 10
- LPL Heat: 8
- LPL Duration: 1.0
- LPL Cooldown: 3.6
- LPL Range: 540m - 1200m

- HSL Damage: 7
- HSL Duration: 1.35
- HSL Cooldown: 3.0
- HSL Range: 150m - 300m
- HML Damage: 9
- HML Duration: 1.55
- HML Cooldown: 4.0
- LL Range: 270m - 540m
- HLL Damage: 18
- HLL Duration: 1.75
- HLL Cooldown: 5.0
- HLL Range: 450m - 900m

Quote

IS:

- SL Damage: 4
- SL Duration: 0.6
- SL Cooldown: 2.4
- SL Range: 150m - 300m
- ML Damage: 5
- ML Duration: 0.8
- ML Cooldown: 3.0
- ML Range: 270m - 540m
- LL Damage: 9
- LL Duration: 1.0
- LL Cooldown: 3.6
- LL Range: 450m - 900m

- SPL Damage: 5
- SPL Duration: 0.5
- SPL Cooldown: 1.8
- SPL Range: 120m - 300m
- MPL Damage: 6
- MPL Duration: 0.6
- MPL Cooldown: 2.4
- MPL Range: 220m - 540m
- LPL Damage: 10
- LPL Duration: 0.7
- LPL Cooldown: 3.0
- LPL Range: 360m - 900m

- ERSL Damage: 4
- ERSL Duration: 0.6
- ERSL Cooldown: 3.0
- ERSL Range: 200m - 400m
- ERML Damage: 5
- ERML Duration: 0.8
- ERML Cooldown: 3.5
- ERML Range: 360m - 720m
- ERLL Damage: 9
- ERLL Duration: 1.0
- ERLL Cooldown: 4.0
- ERLL Range: 600m - 1200m


Large Laser is balanced by itself with respect to other laser weapons within the faction.

Small Lasers compensate better DPS over Medium Lasers, but Medium Lasers have waaay more range. Small Lasers just have puny output so I made them near the same damage output as Medium Lasers, as the Medium Lasers would still have the immensely longer range component, which is in my experience exactly the reason why people upgrade from Smalls to Meds in the first place.

Clan Pulse Laser is approached by being an ergonomic version of Clan Lasers through lesser heat, faster cooldown and beam duration, they are literally the standard-laser of Clans, but they have longer range. IS Pulse Laser is approached as it was before, higher damage faster ROF lasers. They will still yield the best DPS versus Clan lasers, it's just the Clan has objectively farther reach. However to compensate, the IS Pulse Lasers have the same maximum range as the standard lasers, this is so that they are still competitive at a range.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 July 2018 - 09:02 PM.


#15 Navid A1

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:36 PM

I think that with the new laser changes, C-Gauss recoil is not necessary.

Many not so popular clan mechs use a single gauss with a couple lasers and they are hurt the most by gauss recoil.


Remove Gauss recoil and we can start spending time on discussing the real, more relevant issues

#16 MechaBattler

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:38 PM

I actually liked the pulse changes to be honest. They felt more sustainable. But maybe that's because I'm inexperienced with Clan mechs.

It's interesting you're listening to all the people that said duration was the way to go. Considering it was tried once before in the early days. Most people found the duration to be too unwieldy. But I can't remember the duration numbers from then. So we'll see how it plays out.

Honestly should have just gone through with the damage reduction. But eased off the damage reduction on the C-ER Med. And just adjusted LL damage with a heat reduction instead of raising ghost heat.

Also since Gauss recoil seems to be roundly considered a bad thing. Maybe you should just nerf it's stats.

Edited by MechaBattler, 25 July 2018 - 06:44 PM.


#17 Zargulis

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:39 PM

I don't understand any of these changes.
  • C-ERLL 10 damage 10.8 heat 1.6s duration
  • IS-ERLL 9 damage 8 heat 1.1s duration
Seriously? A whole 1 damage for 2.8 more heat and 45% longer duration? That's absurd.
  • C-MPL 6.5 damage 4.5 heat 1.17s duration (why 1.17s? so arbitrary)
  • IS-MPL 6 damage 3.8 heat 0.6s duration
  • IS-ERML 5 damage 4.5 heat 0.9s duration
C-MPL has double the duration of IS-MPL. Even IS-LL has shorter duration than C-MPL. Think about that - a Clan Medium Pulse Laser has a longer duration than a Large Laser.

Small lasers and small pulse lasers are still trash. I could go on, but I'm probably just wasting my time.

#18 Rhialto

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:39 PM

It seems they are fine tuning numbers FOR YEARS...

#19 BrunoSSace

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:39 PM

Well I'm not really understanding your reasoning for some of these changes. Even tho I knew nerfs for the IS defensive quirks would be in the works. Funny thing is, even if you nerf the Bushwackers quirks, it still has one of the best hitboxs of any medium mech in the game.

Pluss what rewards will we get this time for logging and testing these random numbers?

Edited by BrunoSSace, 25 July 2018 - 06:41 PM.


#20 Slambot

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Posted 25 July 2018 - 06:43 PM

Again, I have to go on record as being strongly against these changes... They are unwarranted and reduce the flavor of the game. The problem has NEVER been clan laser damage, or range or burn time. The problem has ALWAYS been the increased heat capacity for a mech when installing large numbers of heat sinks. The solution to high alphas is simpler than nerfing clan laser damage or range or burn time. Reduce the heat capacity that comes with clan heat sinks drastically, so that when you pull the trigger on a 60 heat alpha you WILL shut down and your mech WILL take massive damage.(heat dissipation should also be buffed at the same time) If you want to change things up and further differentiate clans and IS then this will do so.

Also, if you really want to balance the game, then you need to go system by system and change items so that if you could build a mech using both inner sphere and clan tech, there would be a reason why a rational player would want to use the IS system over the clan and vice versa. I still fail to see why you guys are sooooo stubborn when it comes to actually sitting down and thinking about how the game plays and the character that has evolved in game play and then coming up with some creative ways to increase the amount of flavor that comes with choosing one side or the other. Hell, I'll bet your player base would actually suggest items for you.





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