Jump to content

Firestarter Build: Waste Of Space?


11 replies to this topic

#1 NecessaryWeevil

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 105 posts

Posted 12 August 2018 - 09:01 PM

Am I just wasting my time and my teammates' time with this build in Tier 4 or do you think one could accomplish something with it?

FS9-S
245 LFE (113 kph)
2 Jumpjets
2 LAMS
4 Flamers
4 DHS

Current idea is to close-range scout (close enough to fall back to my team), then hang out with the heavies and provide LAMS support until the battlelines clash and then try to overheat heavily-engaged enemy heavies and assaults.

Edited by NecessaryWeevil, 12 August 2018 - 09:15 PM.


#2 The Basilisk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,034 posts
  • LocationFrankfurt a.M.

Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:51 PM

In short: Yes it is a complete waste of your and others time.

To elaborate this a bit:
Since your team size is severely limited and the teams are more or less matched in terms of tonnage and pilot quality (not perfectly not as much as nessessary) every "spezialized" mech not doing primarily plain old damage, or causing other mechs to be able to do lots more damage, is a lost mech to your team.

Think about this: For every ton you spend you have either to be able to absorb enemy damage or to be able to cause your team to make more damage. Every ton that does neither (like flamers taken solo, some obsolete sensor suits and some other stuff) is simpy dead weight.

If you want to bring non directly damaging or debilating equipment, use TAG, ECM, beagle, NARC or 1-2 flamers with an additional load of MGs and smal lasers.
You always should be able to kill the last mech standing when you are the last mech on your team.

I don't know how often my ammo on my Anni run out and I killed the last crippled enemys with my 4 smal lasers.

Edited by The Basilisk, 12 August 2018 - 11:55 PM.


#3 Leone

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,118 posts
  • LocationOutworlds Alliance

Posted 13 August 2018 - 07:16 AM

I've run similar mechs before.

Thing was, that was before the flamer nerf, when you could alternate flamers endlessly. Now, they're still good for an initial shutdown, but then you gotta cool. It reduces the utility in the brawl and overall. Still, thing with a build like that is you're going to want to be the tip the the spear, leading the brawl because you're more expendable, harder to hit an have the movement to overtake the heavies when they push out. (You still wanna wait until others are moving out to start it. Flamers can be really useful, but you gotta remember to target the ones who're cool to do the most good. You'll need some pretty solid situational awareness.)

All things considered, it'd be harder to make such a mech shine than one running small lasers, but if you're willing to put in the work, I think it could be used to turn the tide of a battle or two.

~Leone.

#4 NecessaryWeevil

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 105 posts

Posted 13 August 2018 - 02:15 PM

Thanks very much for the replies.

I tried to do the same thing on my Locust and was alarmed that it made a better Flamer platform than the Firestarter (faster, better cooling, smaller size).

#5 Acersecomic

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 536 posts

Posted 09 February 2019 - 04:50 AM

Honestly I am having a lot of fun and finding a fkton of success with FS9-A and 8 medium lasers.
It's like running double AC/20 hahahaha. And with full Firepower and Operations I can fire almost indefinetly, 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 groups hahhaha
FS9-A

#6 Darian DelFord

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,060 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 10 February 2019 - 08:19 AM

View PostAcersecomic, on 09 February 2019 - 04:50 AM, said:

Honestly I am having a lot of fun and finding a fkton of success with FS9-A and 8 medium lasers.
It's like running double AC/20 hahahaha. And with full Firepower and Operations I can fire almost indefinetly, 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 groups hahhaha
FS9-A



Fixed it for ya Posted Image

FS9-A

or

FS9-A





Gives you much better speed...... (Speed is life for Lights) and much better DPS and better heat management.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 10 February 2019 - 08:30 AM.


#7 Acersecomic

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 536 posts

Posted 10 February 2019 - 10:00 AM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 10 February 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

Fixed it for ya Posted Image
FS9-A
or
FS9-A
Gives you much better speed...... (Speed is life for Lights) and much better DPS and better heat management.


While it certainly looks nice it is just not something I would be able to play all that well. "better" is objective in this case as I find the 4-4 mediums being really damn nice Posted Image
I don't want it to be just another Wolfhound or a flea with smalls. I've got a 20-20 punch combo here, honestly excellent heat management and two jumpjets to help traverse steeper hills. Each 4laser alpha gives me something like 16-20 heat % so that's 32 to 40 per two volleys, after which it's around 3 seconds to lose some heat and then punch again. I can end up dealing 120-140 damage before having to lose a bit of heat which is usually just moving back so I'm not focused. All that at around 330 meters optimal range.
It's much more comfortable. You don't want to be all that close with Firestarter as it doesn't have armor quirks (good structure though) and it's gigantic for a light mech. And it gets **** done.
You have to think about the Firestarter (at least I do) as a squishier 40tonner.
Thanks anyways Posted Image I hope if you end up running the FS9-A you try your builds but I made mine like this because I tried a few other builds and it didn't work for me, including PPCs and pulses and flamers etc...

Edited by Acersecomic, 10 February 2019 - 10:01 AM.


#8 Darian DelFord

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 3,060 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:59 AM

View PostAcersecomic, on 10 February 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:


While it certainly looks nice it is just not something I would be able to play all that well. "better" is objective in this case as I find the 4-4 mediums being really damn nice Posted Image
I don't want it to be just another Wolfhound or a flea with smalls. I've got a 20-20 punch combo here, honestly excellent heat management and two jumpjets to help traverse steeper hills. Each 4laser alpha gives me something like 16-20 heat % so that's 32 to 40 per two volleys, after which it's around 3 seconds to lose some heat and then punch again. I can end up dealing 120-140 damage before having to lose a bit of heat which is usually just moving back so I'm not focused. All that at around 330 meters optimal range.
It's much more comfortable. You don't want to be all that close with Firestarter as it doesn't have armor quirks (good structure though) and it's gigantic for a light mech. And it gets **** done.
You have to think about the Firestarter (at least I do) as a squishier 40tonner.
Thanks anyways Posted Image I hope if you end up running the FS9-A you try your builds but I made mine like this because I tried a few other builds and it didn't work for me, including PPCs and pulses and flamers etc...



What tier are you in, if you do not mind me asking? I assume, 1 or 2 based on your history. To me, your build is DOA simply due to speed. Any light that goes less than 130 is easy pickings for any other class. The exception to this are clan lights and that is because they are basically mediums with their firepower.

The folks that you drop with, must not be paying attention is all I am saying.

#9 Acersecomic

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 536 posts

Posted 10 February 2019 - 06:55 PM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 10 February 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:



What tier are you in, if you do not mind me asking? I assume, 1 or 2 based on your history. To me, your build is DOA simply due to speed. Any light that goes less than 130 is easy pickings for any other class. The exception to this are clan lights and that is because they are basically mediums with their firepower.

The folks that you drop with, must not be paying attention is all I am saying.


Been Tier1 for a few months now.
Also, the speed is fine. 118 is more than enough. Besides, I don't go around pretending to be a light mech, I stay with the pack and provide extra firepower.
Sadly that was mostly during this weekend so I lost as much as i won. The moment midnight rang, it was like a new game.
I don't let other classes pick me off, I don't overextend or go to bite more than I can chew. I stay with the group and engage when there is combat.
Of course I use my speed for early scouting, flanking etc, but less like light mechs and more like Cicadas and such.I am just a less armored version of that.
The fact people generaly consider the Firestarted a dead or sad mech is because they see "light" and think it will play like a Locust. Do you see Zeuses play like Annihilators? Linebackers like Orions? Or even Vindicators like Stormcrows or ArcticWolves?
Nay! Adapt and think for yourself. My first moto is fk meta and fk public opinion, second is adapt to what it needs, not what you want.
And it's been carrying me well so far and I've enjoyed my mechs and my opponents. Sadly I can't say the same for teams.
Most of my deaths in this mech come from me taking the role of an assault mech because my assaults and heavies are afraid to fight and innitiate.
Play smart ;) Not how people expect something to play. There may be OP meta like quad lb10x and such, but that does not mean you are wrong. I peronaly find meta ruins any game and makes it stale, forcing builds/compositions for the sake of effectivness like a machine. Repulsive. Find what is fun for you.
I have no issues or odd deaths with this build. It is DOA only if you surrender yourself to the sheep's way of thinking.

#10 Jman5

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 4,692 posts

Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:01 AM

View PostAcersecomic, on 10 February 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:

You don't want to be all that close with Firestarter as it doesn't have armor quirks (good structure though) and it's gigantic for a light mech. And it gets **** done.
You have to think about the Firestarter (at least I do) as a squishier 40tonner.


I agree with you that you should think of the Firestarter like a small medium, but I don't think it's really all that much of a squishier one.

With Survival Skills, the Firestarter comes out to a total of about 580 hitpoints. An Arctic Wolf meanwhile will only have about 537 hitpoints. It's only when put up against a well quirked mech like the Assassin with 597 HP that it gets beat.

Interestingly, the Firestarter is surprisingly close to the 45 ton Shadowcat which only has 586 hitpoints. So a more fair assessment would be that the firestarter is superior to a quirkless 40 tonner, about on par with a quirkless 45 tonner, but weaker than a well quirked medium.

Another point I would like to make is not to undervalue structure too much. Sure, 1 armor is better than 1 structure, but it isn't by all that much. This is particularly relevant for smaller mechs like Lights because their low hitpoints give less opportunity for items to get crit-destroyed. It's also worth mentioning that structure quirks are omni directional while armor quirks are only front-sided. If you get nailed in the back, structure > armor quirks. Finally, the survival tree is structure-biased. the bonuses for structure skills is higher than armor skills (38% vs 23% on a 35 tonner). This means that if you flipped the Firestarter's structure quirks for armor, it would actually lose total hitpoints.

This is why I think the Firestarter is actually quite good at close range.

View PostDarian DelFord, on 10 February 2019 - 11:59 AM, said:



What tier are you in, if you do not mind me asking? I assume, 1 or 2 based on your history. To me, your build is DOA simply due to speed. Any light that goes less than 130 is easy pickings for any other class. The exception to this are clan lights and that is because they are basically mediums with their firepower.

The folks that you drop with, must not be paying attention is all I am saying.


I dunno, it just means you have to play it differently. Urban mech for example is slow as molasses, but it does very well for itself. With 8 hardpoints on a firestarter you can pump out a lot of damage too.

Edited by Jman5, 11 February 2019 - 11:06 AM.


#11 Acersecomic

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 536 posts

Posted 11 February 2019 - 12:17 PM

View PostJman5, on 11 February 2019 - 11:01 AM, said:


I agree with you that you should think of the Firestarter like a small medium, but I don't think it's really all that much of a squishier one.

With Survival Skills, the Firestarter comes out to a total of about 580 hitpoints. An Arctic Wolf meanwhile will only have about 537 hitpoints. It's only when put up against a well quirked mech like the Assassin with 597 HP that it gets beat.

Interestingly, the Firestarter is surprisingly close to the 45 ton Shadowcat which only has 586 hitpoints. So a more fair assessment would be that the firestarter is superior to a quirkless 40 tonner, about on par with a quirkless 45 tonner, but weaker than a well quirked medium.

Another point I would like to make is not to undervalue structure too much. (snipped a lot of structure/armor talk)

This is why I think the Firestarter is actually quite good at close range.


That's actually putting it in a very good perspective. Thanks for that. It helps my arguments about the Firestart a lot haha. However its size still makes it a bit of a tougher pick for close quarters combat and why its effective hp isn't AS effective as numbers would show it, and its hitboxes aren't as broken as Wolfhounds for example. Which is why I prefer to stay at a longer range where I can splash more and engage at close range when the situation is oportune. Meta is sadly overflooded with fastest TTK possible, which makes for a very hazardous and unenjoyable enviroment where risky plays are often just suicide.

\[T]/

Edited by Acersecomic, 11 February 2019 - 12:18 PM.


#12 Jman5

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 4,692 posts

Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:42 PM

View PostAcersecomic, on 11 February 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:


That's actually putting it in a very good perspective. Thanks for that. It helps my arguments about the Firestarter a lot haha. However its size still makes it a bit of a tougher pick for close quarters combat and why its effective hp isn't AS effective as numbers would show it, and its hitboxes aren't as broken as Wolfhounds for example. Which is why I prefer to stay at a longer range where I can splash more and engage at close range when the situation is oportune. Meta is sadly overflooded with fastest TTK possible, which makes for a very hazardous and unenjoyable enviroment where risky plays are often just suicide.

\[T]/


I pilot a Small Pulse Laser FS9 build almost exclusively the last several months so I've thought a lot about it.

That dastardly Wolfhound though is tough! I think I'm slowly making progress on how to reliably beat them in a fair fight, but you hardly get good test subjects in QP. 90% of them either die early, or they're poke trading in the deathball all match so it's impossible to approach them without throwing away your mech. Plus the ECM on the Grinner makes it difficult to track them.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users