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Mwo Will Be Completely Dead By 2019 If You Dont Fix It Now


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#21 Anjian

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:16 PM

View PostFelbombling, on 18 August 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

People don't like change, generally speaking. All the changes thrust upon the player base, especially over the last little while, will bite PGI in the @ss, I think. Their worst mistake has been the slow roll out of new Quick Play maps. I expected, after their library of game assets got more robust, that they'd be producing maps at a greater clip. That simply has not been the case.

Besides, PGI and many MechWarrior players are probably looking toward MechWarrior 5, anyway. If MechWarrior: Online dies, it dies.


I think the game is near dead because PGI isn't darn near interested in marketing it, but the IP itself is heading to oblivion because of generational disruption. Even the HBS Battletech game didn't have staying power in this age of Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, Pokemon Go and gacha games. In one corner, you have Gen X/Y players that have one, two decades, maybe even three decades of gaming still fondly remembering table top gaming, arcade games that you toss a coin in, and games that you can actually buy and hold in a package --- a corner that is shrinking --- and on the other corner, you have the F2P millennials with their consoles and mobiles paying their gachapon or their loot boxes with a digital payment system --- a corner that is increasing. A generation that never heard or played of Battletech, Wing Commander, Descent, or even games like Dungeons and Dragons.

#22 FireStoat

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:16 PM

With HBS Battletech gearing up for new content release and the eventual expansion / new game, Mechwarrior Online will continue to slug along at its usual pace as both games shuffle fanbases over to each other repeatedly.

#23 crazytimes

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:19 PM

My perspective from someone who only started recently- part of the issue is the financial situation. Things cost way too much real world money for the current state of affairs.

No way am I dropping a cheeky $50 or whatever on a mech or two when in over an hour of playing, I played four games. The rest was spent in queue. Two of those games were on Polar, so another 3 or so minutes of nothing meaningful happening, then wondering whether their LRM ammo or my AMS ammo would run out first for another 3.

I get there was a time the financial model made sense. The problem now is, it does not. To complicate the matter- everyone who has previously spent the money would protest heavily now if everything got a lot cheaper. Priced new players out of the market, but can't drop prices because it would offend veterans, who are the core of the community that is left.

I have no idea what the solution is. If you want my hand in my wallet though, there needs to be a shift somewhere.

LRMs... I don't care much about really. Every game has it's issues with long range weapons, perception and balance. Yeah they aren't much fun en masse, but hey, neither is being on the recieving end of a pirhana, or dual heavy gauss to the cockpit.

#24 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:23 PM

View PostAnjian, on 18 August 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:


I think the game is near dead because PGI isn't darn near interested in marketing it, but the IP itself is heading to oblivion because of generational disruption. Even the HBS Battletech game didn't have staying power in this age of Overwatch, Fortnite, PUBG, Pokemon Go and gacha games. In one corner, you have Gen X/Y players that have one, two decades, maybe even three decades of gaming still fondly remembering table top gaming, arcade games that you toss a coin in, and games that you can actually buy and hold in a package --- a corner that is shrinking --- and on the other corner, you have the F2P millennials with their consoles and mobiles paying their gachapon or their loot boxes with a digital payment system --- a corner that is increasing. A generation that never heard or played of Battletech, Wing Commander, Descent, or even games like Dungeons and Dragons.

IP is the strongest it's been in like 20 years. No it's not amazingly potent like the late 80s, but its stronger than it was in the early to mid 00s. D&D is actually doing rather well too.

#25 Anjian

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:42 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 18 August 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

IP is the strongest it's been in like 20 years. No it's not amazingly potent like the late 80s, but its stronger than it was in the early to mid 00s. D&D is actually doing rather well too.


Except that the gaming market has exploded exponentially that games can be purchased, registered or downloaded over 100 million times when back in 2005, selling 500,000 units was a big hit. So even if you maintain the same player base, in the overall scheme, you have a mighty shrink in the pie.

As for Battletech, the game saw a big boost on its launch, then shriveled up within 3 months. This can be confirmed not just with Steam charts but also with Google Trends.

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#26 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:46 PM

View PostAnjian, on 18 August 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:


Except that the gaming market has exploded exponentially that games can be purchased, registered or downloaded over 100 million times when back in 2005, selling 500,000 units was a big hit. So even if you maintain the same player base, in the overall scheme, you have a mighty shrink in the pie.

As for Battletech, the game saw a big boost on its launch, then shriveled up within 3 months. This can be confirmed not just with Steam charts but also with Google Trends.

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Battletech is not JUST the HBS game the IP is Battletech, the TT game game, the Digital franchise, and many facets. MWO has done rather well for 6 years now, all indications are that MW5 will do fine. Battletech did just fine. The next Installment of HBS Battletech will likewise probably do just fine. The Physical Books and TT material sells out every bit that CGL can print. Yes. It's a niche game. No one denies that. It's always been that. So what? Tell us something we didn't know?

Sorry, that's not the same as a dead IP.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 August 2018 - 04:49 PM.


#27 Alkabides

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:55 PM

Always chuckle about this kind of stuff since the OP has no clue how a healthy game survives. Probably has zero clue how to run a successful business as well. Hint: it’s not the die hard 1% vets that prop a game up. Ask fortnite if you think you know better.

#28 crazytimes

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 04:57 PM

View PostAnjian, on 18 August 2018 - 04:42 PM, said:


Except that the gaming market has exploded exponentially that games can be purchased, registered or downloaded over 100 million times when back in 2005, selling 500,000 units was a big hit. So even if you maintain the same player base, in the overall scheme, you have a mighty shrink in the pie.

As for Battletech, the game saw a big boost on its launch, then shriveled up within 3 months. This can be confirmed not just with Steam charts but also with Google Trends.




The thing with the Battletech game is that nothing much has happened since launch. The big patch came and went, unfortunately after some damage was already done, but other than that there has been 0 anything since. Everyone finished the campaign, got the achievements they were after and then there is no end game content.

I suspect strongly that they are just holding cards close to make the big reveals more impactful, but at present there is nothing confirmed on the radar. Not 'dead', just run its course for now. Expecting some kind of DLC announcement this tuesday I believe.

#29 Anjian

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:02 PM

I don't consider 100,000 monthly players fine, this likely translates to 2000 to 3000 players playing regularly daily. That is a niche IP, and its very difficult to get capital investment and loans for niche IP to necessarily do a top quality game and pay for the developers and servers to back that up. Future game development and studios need all sorts of short term loans to pay for salaries and servers because your income stream isn't consistent. You need bucks to develop the game that Mechwarrior players dream, want and write in a thousand forum threads, a game the franchise truly deserves and one that can grow the franchise.

From a business sense the IP is not doing fine and you got the straight numbers and analytics. You got nothing to show to a business presentation.

Just to consider the scale whats on the game industry now, PUBG Mobile registered well over 100 million downloads in a matter of months.

Games have a sense of gravity, and mega hit games are like black holes that suck the remaining matter out of the galaxy, leaving little to the rest.

Edited by Anjian, 18 August 2018 - 05:03 PM.


#30 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:09 PM

View PostAnjian, on 18 August 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

I don't consider 100,000 monthly players fine, this likely translates to 2000 to 3000 players playing regularly daily. That is a niche IP, and its very difficult to get capital investment and loans for niche IP to necessarily do a top quality game and pay for the developers and servers to back that up. Future game development and studios need all sorts of short term loans to pay for salaries and servers because your income stream isn't consistent. You need bucks to develop the game that Mechwarrior players dream, want and write in a thousand forum threads, a game the franchise truly deserves and one that can grow the franchise.

From a business sense the IP is not doing fine and you got the straight numbers and analytics. You got nothing to show to a business presentation.

Just to consider the scale whats on the game industry now, PUBG Mobile registered well over 100 million downloads in a matter of months.

Games have a sense of gravity, and mega hit games are like black holes that suck the remaining matter out of the galaxy, leaving little to the rest.

You do understand that Battletech is primarily a Pve Game? Yes it has a MPbit.. but being Turn based...it's never going to have a huge player base? It sells... people play it a few go through.. and wait for the next DLC.. or the next version. Not sure how that translates into "ding dong the witch is dead" for that version of the game.. let alone the entire IP

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 August 2018 - 05:11 PM.


#31 Anjian

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:26 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 18 August 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

You do understand that Battletech is primarily a Pve Game? Yes it has a MPbit.. but being Turn based...it's never going to have a huge player base? It sells... people play it a few go through.. and wait for the next DLC.. or the next version. Not sure how that translates into "ding dong the witch is dead" for that version of the game.. let alone the entire IP


Do you know how to read charts? Turn based or not, you see a big downward curve on two charts, the number of players playing the game, and two, the number of Google searches for the term on the same period, right? You know what each means, right? And how searches and inquiries play an important part in marketing. Plus the number of news from HBS has shriveled up since May.

A sustainable IP needs numbers. Its a platform. It needs a growing base. Its like an operating system. You might still have some users that are still using Blackberry or Windows Phone, and they might still get a few updates here and there, doesn't necessarily mean the platform is living and has long term sustainability that someone can justly invest a large amount of capital on it (I don't mean players putting playtime on it, I mean companies that can build major software projects out of it, which in this case, are major games.)

#32 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:36 PM

View PostAnjian, on 18 August 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:


Do you know how to read charts? Turn based or not, you see a big downward curve on two charts, the number of players playing the game, and two, the number of Google searches for the term on the same period, right? You know what each means, right? And how searches and inquiries play an important part in marketing. Plus the number of news from HBS has shriveled up since May.

A sustainable IP needs numbers. Its a platform. It needs a growing base. Its like an operating system. You might still have some users that are still using Blackberry or Windows Phone, and they might still get a few updates here and there, doesn't necessarily mean the platform is living and has long term sustainability that someone can justly invest a large amount of capital on it (I don't mean players putting playtime on it, I mean companies that can build major software projects out of it, which in this case, are major games.)

Do you know what reading comprehension, critical thinking and oh.... facts are?

PvE narrative game. People have played the narrative multiple times. Now are waiting for the DLC. It was never a game that was going to hold huge numbers of MP players. If you thought it was.. then you were delusional. Yes. Online numbers have declined. Not a shock. Actually... exactly as anyone with 2 braincells would expect? Do I need to use smaller words for you?

And again... how does that spell DOOM for the entire IP? The game has exceeded the expectations HBS ever hoped for. CGL is doing well. (Caveat, for a niche pen and Paper TT game, since no such game not named Games Workshop is just printing money. Yet oh..... is releasing new product at a rate not seen in a decade. Oops!) PGI is doing rather well. MW5 largely delayed.. because of a certain lawsuit... and a desire to actually....IDK have certain Classic Unseen mech assets in the game? (Cause you know... it will sell better with Warhammers, Marauders and Archer, OH MY?).

Might help.. if you actually... IDK... knew WTF you were talking about.... actually communicated with the devs (I do... from all 3 companies involved.. and Iron Wind Metals, to boot). So yeah.. when I see some one pulling alarmist BS out their butt? ... I'm going to call them on it.

Oh...and if you are going to claim a game is dead.. at least have the fortitude god gave a sand flea and go proclaim it on their forums. *SMH*

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 August 2018 - 05:48 PM.


#33 Anjian

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 05:51 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 18 August 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

Do you know what reading comprehension, critical thinking and oh.... facts are?

PvE narrative game. People have played the narrative multiple times. Now are waiting for the DLC. It was never a game that was going to hold huge numbers of MP players. If you thought it was.. then you were delusional. Do I need to use smaller words for you?

And again... how does that spell DOOM for the entire IP? The game has exceeded the expectations HBS ever hoped for. CGL is doing well. (Caveat, for a niche pen and Paper TT game, since no such game not named Games Workshop is just printing money. Yet oh..... is releasing new product at a rate not seen in a decade. Oops!) PGI is doing rather well. MW5 largely delayed.. because of a certain lawsuit... and a desire to actually....IDK have certain Classic Unseen mech assets in the game? (Cause you know... it will sell better with Warhammers, Marauders and Archer, OH MY?).

Might help.. if you actually... IDK... knew WTF you were talking about.... actually communicated with the devs (I do... from all 3 companies involved.. and Iron Wind Metals, to boot). So yeah.. when I see some one pulling alarmist BS out their butt? ... I'm going to call them on it. So go wipe yourself.


Do you realize that many of the highest grossing mobile games are PVE narrative games? Let's say Nintendo's Fire Emblem Heroes. It is a turn based narrative game that is played solo, like every game in the franchise. But it makes way more money than the Mario games on mobile, or practically just about every console title Nintendo has ever made. We're looking at least $200 million dollars probably heading towards a billion, which is achievable with a hit mobile game in Japan and globally.

Do you know what sustains it? Frequent updates, as fast as two weeks. Games of this ilk update this fast, in both content and narrative. If there is not main narrative content, they would have a seasonal content, narrative to kick off a limited time event.

When a player finishes a game, he goes plays another game. Frequent updates --- part of games as a service --- are intended to keep him playing the game no matter, what. Because once he leaves to play another game, there is no guarantee he will ever come back by the time you will release a DLC months from now. Gamers nowadays have a very short attention span. If you are not ploughing regular updates --- even PGI knows that, which is why MWO still stands today --- then something is very wrong, which isn't helped with HBS being sold to Palladium and zero word ever since.

I don't have any indication that PGI is doing rather well from a business point of view. While it is sustainable, sustainable doesn't mean well. The best symptom a company is doing well is when it is greatly expanding staff, offices, doing more regional localizations, and the most important of all, its doing visible marketing. As much as 60 to 80% of game revenue can be ploughed back to marketing because maintaining player base numbers is that important. But PGI and MWO has zero marketing, and MWO simply enjoyed the backdraft of HBS' marketing of Battletech. When you have zero marketing you are only earning enough to keep the lights on and the salaries paid, and you are using a dubious prepay scheme for that which no other game but Star Citizen is using (and Star Citizen has yet to deliver a game). Every game gets paid only after their content is released.

Edited by Anjian, 18 August 2018 - 05:54 PM.


#34 Jman5

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:40 PM

My only problem with the piranha is that the crit system is a little buggy. weapons do full critical damage beyond their optimum range all the way out to their max range. This means some guy with machine guns can be standing at 250 meters doing almost no physical damage, but criting out every component you have in moments.

I reported it a little while back and I'm hoping it gets addressed sooner or later.

#35 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:42 PM

Yes yes. Battletech is not World of Warcraft or whatever, ergo it must be failing. *facepalm*

You don't have any inclination of ANYTHING.. because you look at walls of numbers, apply no actual context to any of them, and have no grasp to any of the goings on behind the scenes for any of the parties involved. Thus, you are talking out of your butt. Good day sir.

#36 Khobai

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:49 PM

For some reason Battletech is the IP that never dies.

Its funny because most people hate everything about battletech other than the mechs lol.

The plot is horrible. the writing is horrible. the setting is horrible. the artwork is horrible. Its outdated and perpetually trapped in the 80s.

The only thing good about it is the mechs, and only because PGI did a great job updating all their appearances.

I feel like they should completely blow away the entire IP and start over from scratch. Make it appeal more to the new generation. And get rid of the stupid imbalanced crap like clans.

Edited by Khobai, 18 August 2018 - 10:40 PM.


#37 FupDup

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:51 PM

View PostKhobai, on 18 August 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

For some reason Battletech is the IP that never dies.

Its funny because most people hate everything about battletech other than the mechs lol.

The plot is horrible. the writing is horrible. the setting is horrible. the artwork is horrible. Its outdated and perpetually trapped in the 80s.

The only thing good about it is the mechs.

I feel like they should completely blow away the entire IP and start over from scratch. Make it appeal more to the new generation. And get rid of the stupid imbalanced crap like clans.

I've always thought that somebody should just some along and start a whole new IP (with game mechanics "borrowed" from BT) instead of nuking BT so that we don't have to endure the holy wrath of the grognards.

#38 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:53 PM

No...that's just you.

see there are huge forums dedicated to the fiction, etc. Tons of people actually love the universe, the fiction, the art, the minis, etc. It's just a few people like you who hate everything.. and yet refuse to go away. Go figure.

View PostFupDup, on 18 August 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

I've always thought that somebody should just some along and start a whole new IP (with game mechanics "borrowed" from BT) instead of nuking BT so that we don't have to endure the holy wrath of the grognards.

People do. Titanfall. Hawken. Etc. And yet... huh. They never last. Funny that.

#39 FupDup

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:54 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 18 August 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

People do. Titanfall. Hawken. Etc. And yet... huh. They never last. Funny that.

Note the part about "borrowing game mechanics from BT." Titanfall and Hawken don't have game mechanics anywhere close to MW.

#40 Khobai

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 06:56 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 18 August 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

No...that's just you.

see there are huge forums dedicated to the fiction, etc.


nope its not just me. did you see the !@#$storm when someone suggested they advance the timeline to jihad era lmao. nobody wanted that because its so awful.

and honestly anyone who spends their time in the fiction section of the forums were better off without anyway.





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