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Make Ams Useful As Weapon System In Its Own.


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#1 brroleg

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 07:46 PM

At this moment AMS is just waste of tonnage and slots. AMS just demanding too much sacrifice in mech build, not giving much in return.

Problem of AMS is not low effectiveness against LRM.

Problem of AMS is that it demands so much sacrifice in mech build, that even if it would give you total immunity against LRM, it still would be hard decision to take or not to take AMS.

So

Make lower sacrifice for build when you take AMS. To the point of being AMS totally free in tonnage and slots (taking 0 tons and 0 slots)

OR

Keep the sacrifice for build when you take AMS, but make AMS useful on its own, even when there is no missile to shoot down. Give AMS a switch(like for ECM), which you can change in battle, which will activate AMS to be able to automatically target enemy mechs and do damage comparable to machine gun (on top of targeting enemy missiles, prioritizing missiles over enemy mech, if both in range at same time)

Edited by brroleg, 18 August 2018 - 07:51 PM.


#2 El Bandito

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 07:50 PM

View Postbrroleg, on 18 August 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

  • At this moment AMS is just waste of tonnage and slots. AMS just demanding too much sacrifice in mech build, not giving much in return.
  • Problem of AMS is not low effectiveness against LRM.
  • Problem of AMS is that it demands so much sacrifice in mech build, that even if it would give you total immunity against LRM, it still would be hard decision to take or not to take AMS.

OP's mentality here is why we cannot have nice things, and LRMs are soon getting nerfed to crap. Posted Image

1. AMS is not a complete waste of tonnage even if no one brings LRMs on the other side. It shoots down all manners of missiles, including SRMs, SSRMs, and MRMs, albeit with less effectiveness. And it completely screws over ATMs, which actually hurts a lot more than LRMs at certain range.

2. Apparently you have never seen just how effective AMS umbrella can be against several LRM boats, with just two lances equipping one AMS each.

3. AMS doesn't require that much sacrifice. 0.5 ton for AMS itself plus 1 ton of ammo is good enough to push into LRM boats' faces. Now compare that to the 20+ tons of LRMs and 10+ tons off ammo the missile boats bring. That 30+ ton investment can quickly go down the crapper if the other side has enough AMS/ECM, or if the pugs vote for Solaris City--which they often do.

The right fix for a feast-or-famine weapon family like the LRMs, is not nerfs or buffs, but a rework.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 August 2018 - 07:59 PM.


#3 Novakaine

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:15 PM

Posted Image

#4 Phoenix 72

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:39 PM

Dear OP, I do not like missiles either, to the point of refusing to play LRMs. I could see myself using ATMs further down the line, but with LRMs being so ubuq.... ubig.... ubiq... erm, being used way too much, I do not want to add to the problem. Posted Image

However, asking for a 1.5 ton piece of equipment to give you complete immunity from LRMs, which are a huge investment in tonnage, is a bit much. Also "Free AMS for everybody" is also asking a bit much. Because if AMS is used as a bolt on, everybody will bring one. Which will make missiles in quick place extinct.

I do agree that AMS should be buffed, but I don't think missile immunity is the way to go. Personally, I like the idea to be able to improve AMS ammo amount with skill nodes, the same as for missiles and ballistic weapons. And I would also say lowering the heat use of a LAMS makes absolute sense from my point of view. I also happen to think that the rewards for bringing AMS should be improved.

In quick play, AMS works okayish if enough people bring it. Which is the problem - not enough people do use the AMS. In faction play, you will never be able to bring enough AMS. Not even if the whole team sports 2 AMS.

This system is way too difficult to balance both QP and FP without screwing up the other game mode. My three suggestions above should improve AMS and AMS useage enough to at least reduce the problem. For both game modes.

Edited by Darakor Stormwind, 18 August 2018 - 10:41 PM.


#5 Khobai

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 10:41 PM

Rather than buffing AMS which inherently weakens missiles more

Id rather see missiles buffed so people feel more obligated to take AMS

#6 Kroete

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 02:00 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 18 August 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

At this moment AMS is just waste of tonnage and slots. AMS just demanding too much sacrifice in mech build, not giving much in return.

If your builds dont work with one less heatsink,
what do you do if terra is voted?

#7 Toothless

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 03:34 AM

Equipping AMS is effectively adding more armor to your mech and those around you.

#8 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 03:45 AM

bring Radar Dep. to max ...use Cover and wait of the right situation for fight and use the MOBILITY ...never fight from the same place

#9 Asym

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 04:09 AM

OP, a defensive weapons system have "real value." Now, if you want AMS to protect you from a PIR behind you.........now that, might be a rather interesting discussion as to why, in the 31st century, a high speed defensive system with a built in IFF couldn't detect an enemy light mech and shower it with the same ammunition's the PIR carries?

If you don't equip your mechs with defensive systems: You reap what you sow...... It's that simple.

Edited by Asym, 19 August 2018 - 04:09 AM.


#10 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 06:53 AM

Normal AMS is to low on ammo per ton. All Weapons gained 20-30%, but not ams.
So more ammo for ams and much lower heat for laser ams and everything is fine.

#11 Viking Yelling

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:31 AM

View Postbrroleg, on 18 August 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

At this moment AMS is just waste of tonnage and slots. AMS just demanding too much sacrifice in mech build, not giving much in return.

Problem of AMS is not low effectiveness against LRM.

Problem of AMS is that it demands so much sacrifice in mech build, that even if it would give you total immunity against LRM, it still would be hard decision to take or not to take AMS.

So

Make lower sacrifice for build when you take AMS. To the point of being AMS totally free in tonnage and slots (taking 0 tons and 0 slots)

OR

Keep the sacrifice for build when you take AMS, but make AMS useful on its own, even when there is no missile to shoot down. Give AMS a switch(like for ECM), which you can change in battle, which will activate AMS to be able to automatically target enemy mechs and do damage comparable to machine gun (on top of targeting enemy missiles, prioritizing missiles over enemy mech, if both in range at same time)



Everyone.
This is the problem with Min/Maxing.
Thank you.

#12 Spheroid

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:37 AM

Tier 3 = invalid opinion.

#13 LTC Kilgore

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 09:13 AM

I can't tell if this is a serious thread or not

#14 Asym

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 11:42 AM

Hey LTC: to quote Winston: It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key; that solves the paradox and yet, opens pandora's box to greater issues and burdens....

Alas, we all aspire to be the quintessence of dust in this forum.....

#15 JRcam4643

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 01:11 PM

AMS is fine as is.

#16 Judah Malganis

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 02:08 PM

It's like the guys that shave armor off their back and/or legs to get an extra an HS or ammo and then ***** about getting backstabbed or legged and ask for stuff to get nerfed in response.

Dear Daddy PGI, please protect me from the consequences of my choices..

#17 Kanil

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 03:28 PM

View PostKroete, on 19 August 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

If your builds dont work with one less heatsink,
what do you do if terra is voted?

If I bring one less heatsink, I never have to play on Terra...

Posted Image

... because my builds literally don't work with one less heatsink.

(I mean, I don't have a problem with LRMs, because walls are OP and take 0 tons, but y'know...)

#18 Abaddun

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 05:22 PM

You have to be barmy not to take AMS on everything you can get. Unless tonnage is really really tight by the nature of the mech.

#19 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 05:27 PM

LRMs are already sub-par weapons. ****'s need rework, not another more effective counter.

#20 El Bandito

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:01 PM

View PostIgnatius Audene, on 19 August 2018 - 06:53 AM, said:

Normal AMS is to low on ammo per ton. All Weapons gained 20-30%, but not ams.
So more ammo for ams and much lower heat for laser ams and everything is fine.


They buffed AMS ammo and lowered LAMS heat in the last patch.

And if you are being passive with your AMS mech and waiting on LRM boats to run out of ammo, then you are not doing it right.





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