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Pgi - Run The Pts Again, Next Time Under A Broader Format Please


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#1 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 02:34 PM

PGI,

I'm gonna leave my feedback regarding the PTS elsewhere (on one of the ongoing threads here, and on OHPG Reddit) but this thought I felt deserved it's own title so someone hopefully catches it.

There's alot intriguing with where you're going with this PTS and some of the feedback thus far. That being said, after a handful of games in using two mechs/builds I'm extremely familiar in (1500 matches or more between the two), I can honestly say that the feedback will likely be more heavily skewed due to the current format than previous PTS.

As I feel you might be on to something here, I don't want it to come off of the rails.

Right now, the bulk of people testing PTS are the sort to do so without incentives obviously, because I don't know that you've announced any (some are coming I'm sure), and given the way events go, I doubt they'll be significant once announced. And you seem to have a stable cabal of testers.

But the 4v4 limits really, really skews the interpretation of performance in my view. That and the absolute lack of tonnage balancing across the two teams. In my first ten matches alone, the tonnage disparities were noticeable in the extreme. Coupled with the mobility enhancements that impact assaults, this is really problematic imo.

Having AS7, KDK etc turning the corner are legitimately scary things (and they should be), but 2 assaults + 2 heavies, versus 2 heavies, a Sin and a light as the regular match up isn't helpful imo.

Additionally, 4v4 really imparts brawling an advantage, and while it's fun, that's not the only thing we're here to test. High alpha builds capable of shredding a brawl push, especially in larger match ups were part of the reason laser vomit became predominant. Here we have the opposite - high alpha builds cannot legitimately blunt the brawl push for the most part.

My concern is, I'd like brawling to resume a solid role in the game, but I'd also like to see DPS decks be a viable option, snipers, position play etc. A true rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock kind of a thing.

For you to get the best, most granular data possible and to ensure you've not skewed the data too heavily to one playstyle, I'd argue you need to be going at least 8v8 in the PTS and I readily recognize that balancing with 12v12 might be the most accurate it's also likely not going to happen population wise on the PTS.

So, please consider, announcing and RAMPING up the incentives to join a second run through of the PTS, stretching it over more days and asking for a higher minimum number of matches (if you double the queue size to 8 on 8, double the minimum to 20 matches perhaps, but stretched over enough days to make it viable for our more casual and time-limited friends).

You're on the cusp of some fundamentally sound changes here, but my distinct fear is that the pendulum swing of over-adjustment is going to rear it's ugly head here if you stick with 4v4 only to test things.

#2 process

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 04:24 PM

Alternately, let's toss these changes on the live servers for a week and see how they fare. I think most people would be pleased.

#3 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 04:43 PM

View Postprocess, on 19 August 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

Alternately, let's toss these changes on the live servers for a week and see how they fare. I think most people would be pleased.


Gotta disagree with ya here.

I don't believe the changes are "all good" in principal, specifically for the reasons I mention in the feedback post. Any major, fundamental change such as this is at high risk of crippling the already salty/jaded remaining population. Not too many body blows people wanna take imo.

Sure, alot of folks (well really a handful - I don't believe the # testing the PTS are all that many) might be singing kumbayah at the moment, but there are likely major unforeseen variables to all of this that could suddenly crop up, causing another massive shitstorm.

And once it goes live PGI is usually pretty reticent to back off from things (not 100% but most of the time).

Just like I'm a fan of more iterative approaches to change in this game, I'm a fan of them keeping it on the PTS until they reach a higher understanding of where they're taking the game before they go live with it.

#4 Vee Vee

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:40 PM

This is my concern too, I'm sure there will be more PTS, the idea is good but currently can't be properly assessed due to 4v4 format and tonnage mismatch.
The move to high dissipation surely will make brawl and bigger mechs more powerful because larger mechs can fit more heatsinks, can that be overcome by range in 12 V12? Very hard to say. I worry people enjoy the a ility to shoot often due to dissipation but it will akew balance to unknown places.

#5 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 08:20 AM

View PostVee Vee, on 19 August 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

This is my concern too, I'm sure there will be more PTS, the idea is good but currently can't be properly assessed due to 4v4 format and tonnage mismatch.
The move to high dissipation surely will make brawl and bigger mechs more powerful because larger mechs can fit more heatsinks, can that be overcome by range in 12 V12? Very hard to say. I worry people enjoy the a ility to shoot often due to dissipation but it will akew balance to unknown places.


Tonnage mismatches are a challenge, that might actually be mitigated in going to an 8v8 PTS for a second run thru as well.

#6 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 11:58 AM

Seriously, this needs to happen. Dont let things go live without a more appropriate scale of testing.

PGI dont overly another PTS with a FP or similar competing event, and give some kickass, ramping up incentives for players who dive in to help you balance this game! Could be the next big thing since skill tree, but with a more prepared and refined out come.

#7 MechaBattler

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:52 PM

I agree with Process. If you want raw practical data across the board. Live is the best way to do it. People don't care enough to use the PTS. Then they can endure it on live for a week or a few days, if they can do that.

#8 Dago Red

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:02 PM

View PostMechaBattler, on 20 August 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

I agree with Process. If you want raw practical data across the board. Live is the best way to do it. People don't care enough to use the PTS. Then they can endure it on live for a week or a few days, if they can do that.


I like the idea in theory but have the gut feeling too many many of the rough spots are going to kill peoples pet builds and or it will take 5 seconds for some ******** to figure out how brutal flamers are under current numbers and ruin a LOT of peoples matches.

It at least needs further tweaks first. RACs some UACs and flamers all need attending to and I'm sure there's some stuff I don't use in the mix that also needs it. Probably something too letting off the ghost heat and seeing what happens as well. That and gauss as usual jacking everything up with it's lack of heat.

Probably needs at least one more smaller PTS before pushing something like a live test. Of course making the PTS the weekend event could net them way better numbers than its been getting.

#9 MechaBattler

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:20 PM

I agree Dago Red. They can gleam some things just from the PTS. They should refine some things and do another PTS. Then see what else might need work.

Even if they do that. People are gonna be ruffled. Even with advance notice. Some people are going to be upset their favorite build isn't viable anymore. And they'll complain and threaten rather than adapt. But there's really no way around that. Can't make everyone happy.

Plus not everyone checks the forums. So it'll be a huge surprise to some people.

#10 D V Devnull

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 04:06 PM

Hi there, Lukoi Banacek... You have my FULL SUPPORT for calling for a Larger-Scale, Longer-Running PTS in lieu of what just happened. And that's even though I finally was able to get ~11 Matches played. I frankly thought I didn't get enough chance or time to properly get an understand or feel of the PTS, even though I thought it might be worth implementing in an as-is manner. Even further, it seemed like it could be done totally without having the changes for Lock-On Missiles that are in the Upcoming Monthly Patch (v1.4.179), or even any changes to Clan Lasers. Heck, you might want to have people come Vote in the Poll+Discussion Thread which I created in response to this problem. :huh:

--->>> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/268364-cant-get-matches-to-check-this-pts-out/

Good luck, and I hope we get another PTS where PGI can get better numbers on this! B)

~Mr. D. V. "No question, this 'Alpha Balance PTS 2.0' really needed a bigger run!" Devnull

#11 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 04:32 PM

D V, truly appreciate the enthusiasm man ;)

#12 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 08:23 AM

Its humpday PGi! What are your thoughts on an 8v8 PTS mega event with cool prizes and incentives to jump over to the test server and contribute??

#13 Lukoi Banacek

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 06:47 PM

They are running another PTS. Get on that thread and convince them to go 8v8!!





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