Jump to content

Why Not Buff Ams Instead Of Nerfing All Lock-On Missiles?


12 replies to this topic

#1 Hiten Bongz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 163 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 25 August 2018 - 01:31 PM

I find it incredibly strange how instead of buffing one of the fully automated, easily available counters to missiles PGI just blanket-nerfs all lock-ons instead. People want to complain about LRM rain yet don't want to equip the counter for it, either. It's encroaching oxymoron status.

As an active, armor sharing, team-playing Missileer (ATM for clan and MRM for IS with some SRM sprinkles):

I support a general buff to AMS.

Buffing AMS would have been a much better way to handle missile "spam" without nuking all lock-on missile mechanics, and would actually encourage some players to equip the damn thing instead of running to the forums and complaining until everything gets nerfed into the ground. In the case of this outlandish patch, it hardly even affected passive LRMing - they're just dropping Artemis for more tubes - and instead outright damaged the other lock-on missile systems, which have no equal way to make up for the losses in usability.

The mechs I typically run on a regular basis have either a single AMS (some double) and the skills for them, or an ECM also skilled. As a player who likes and understands the missile systems pretty well, I realize the potential need for these counter systems on the receiving end, too. Most players, however, apparently would rather not "waste" the single ton/ton and a half and rather cry until the cows come home instead. "OMG that would cost me an entire heat sink, leaving me with only 29 instead of 30!" Well I'm sorry but if you can't find a single ton to spare to prevent multiple tons of armor damage to yourself and your team because you want to min/max so hard, that's your own problem and as far as I'm concerned you've made an active choice to allow yourself to be more vulnerable to missiles.

*ATMs would need a buff, as a single AMS already chews through an entire ATM12 and then some. Easy fix though: more missile HP, instantaneous launch instead of stream fired, or massive velocity increase. Or a combo of the three.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 25 August 2018 - 02:11 PM.


#2 Rick T Dangerous

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 341 posts
  • LocationExactly above Earth's center

Posted 25 August 2018 - 10:35 PM

That nerf to lock-on systems forces "Missileers" to come closer to what's called "aiming". Once "Missileers" learn how to aim, they might start to use real weapon systems. Would that be so bad?

#3 OZHomerOZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 1,896 posts

Posted 25 August 2018 - 11:45 PM

Harder to use due to lock time via aiming cone, Yes
But all other benefits remain the same
Stay close to your direct fire meat shield buddy

Such a pairing can be devastating, even in solo q
Jump narc a target over cover before your direct fire friend can do anything.
Lerm to clag, well some damage over dat cover for sure, indirect style laughing whilst the enemies direct fire weapons can do nothing.

Muhahahahaha... its a game, doing stuff like that is FUN

If they push
Direct fire meat shield buddy has a softened target provided that he hasn't revesed and run away but thats not the weapons fault.

Were was I?
Yeah, your direct fire meat shield buddy has a softened target an ez krill mang

What if they don't push?
They keep getting narc assisted indirect lerm clag to da face, which did I mention direct fire weapons can't do Posted Image .
Just remember to Jump narc when you run outta narc.

Rinse and repeat.
Every weapon has meta

Sometime you own sometime you get owned.

Fax match makers

Its still every situational weapon system with ups and down thou I feel under dressed and frankly a bit embarrassed when I meet the EMPra's finest on the field when running lock-on weapons.

So Balance sounds right to me IMO

The variety of different weapon systems fielded in solo Quick play is a indicator that no weapon dominates, totally like in previous times.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 August 2018 - 12:06 AM.


#4 Hiten Bongz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 163 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM

View PostRick T Dangerous, on 25 August 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

That nerf to lock-on systems forces "Missileers" to come closer to what's called "aiming". Once "Missileers" learn how to aim, they might start to use real weapon systems. Would that be so bad?


So are you waiting for missiles to be removed entirely from the game before you come back to play again? Curious to know what your agenda is as you've been inactive for quite a long time. Or maybe next you'll tell us you've only played FW and Solaris for the past 8 seasons? Posted Image

Poking fun aside, what makes you think that all people that use missiles can't aim? Not everybody is chucking LRMs from 1100m away hiding behind terrain and teammates with no other weapons to use. Please just stop with that tired argument. It doesn't apply to everyone. I use ATMs with at least 4x lasers or other "real weapon systems" already, and am constantly in the middle of the team or towards the front leading the push. I have quite a high hit-rate according to my stats with all my lasers and other "real weapon systems," thank you very much.

Your bias against missiles is quite obvious and petty. Instead of using any number of available counters, you'd rather PGI nerf them all so hard that nobody uses them, and everyone is forced into how you think the game should be played. Pretty much proving my entire point, thanks.

There is a serious perception issue with a lot of players in this game.

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 25 August 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

Harder to use due to lock time via aiming cone, Yes
But all other benefits remain the same
Stay close to your direct fire meat shield buddy


ATMs and Streaks are already direct fire, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

And you're forgetting the reduced lock speed on top of the smaller cone. No tracking bonus anymore, either. Both of those benefits were deleted from ATMs with the patch. You forgot about these or conveniently don't want to mention?

The only indirect firing missile system is LRMs and I'm not complaining about them other than the fact that the missile nerfs did nothing to curb their abuse while at the same time damaged the other systems usability.

Not trying to be rude but it's really pathetic and quite annoying that some players would rather entire weapon systems get nerfed instead of simply using the appropriate counter.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 26 August 2018 - 12:27 PM.


#5 Rick T Dangerous

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 341 posts
  • LocationExactly above Earth's center

Posted 26 August 2018 - 01:15 PM

View PostHiten Bongz, on 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:


So are you waiting for missiles to be removed entirely from the game before you come back to play again? Curious to know what your agenda is as you've been inactive for quite a long time. Or maybe next you'll tell us you've only played FW and Solaris for the past 8 seasons? Posted Image


Actually, I have done exactly that, staying out of QP and doing FW since about July last year. You can check those stats if you feel the need to.

I don't want to see missiles removed entirely, but your OP about "me wanna lurm, so peeple should take AMS" is ridiculous. You open a topic demanding that people play the game like you do (including the way you skill your stuff), so that

View PostHiten Bongz, on 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

everyone is forced into how you think the game should be played.


...and then you answer the ridicule you provoke with what's called projection.

View PostHiten Bongz, on 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

Pretty much proving my entire point, thanks.


Gesundheit.

#6 Hiten Bongz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 163 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 26 August 2018 - 01:29 PM

View PostRick T Dangerous, on 26 August 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

your OP about "me wanna lurm"


I don't use LRMs, the missiles that I use are all direct fire. I stated that in the OP.

View PostRick T Dangerous, on 26 August 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

"peeple should take AMS" is ridiculous. You open a topic demanding that people play the game like you do (including the way you skill your stuff)


This is wrong and you know it. I'm not demanding people do anything with their mechs; rather they stop complaining if they don't want to equip the provided counter that is available to everyone already. And I'm asking for a buff to the dedicated counter itself.

So many people want to cryhard about missiles, yet nobody wants to "waste" a single ton or so to heavily reduce or outright stop the damage of missiles. That's a conscience choice you make when building your mech, and I fail to understand how that's the fault of anyone else, or why entire weapon systems should be nerfed because min/maxers don't want to drop a single heat sink.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 26 August 2018 - 02:25 PM.


#7 OZHomerOZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 1,896 posts

Posted 26 August 2018 - 07:46 PM

View PostHiten Bongz, on 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:


ATMs and Streaks are already direct fire, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.




I already know that ATMs and Streaks are direct fire . What is your point?



View PostHiten Bongz, on 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:


And you're forgetting the reduced lock speed on top of the smaller cone. No tracking bonus anymore, either. Both of those benefits were deleted from ATMs with the patch.
You forgot about these or conveniently don't want to mention?



You mean Artemis? Well you got tracking and fasta lock bonuses for years without LOS, and on missiles systems unrelated to Artemis aka streaks. Talk about bug exploit. Time to pay the ferryman!

You forgot about these or conveniently don't want to mention?
Tighter groupings Artimis provides allows more missiles to hit the target, same as TT


View PostHiten Bongz, on 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:



The only indirect firing missile system is LRMs and I'm not complaining about them other than the fact that the missile nerfs did nothing to curb their abuse while at the same time damaged the other systems usability.




Thats because the LRM abuse you speak of (In FW I assume coz it don't happen much in quick play) is due to skill mis match due lack of MM (FW) or a busted MM (in Quick play).



View PostHiten Bongz, on 26 August 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:


Not trying to be rude but it's really pathetic and quite annoying that some players would rather entire weapon systems get nerfed instead of simply using the appropriate counter.



I know , Roight!
I tested Streaks (Summoner 5 x SSRM6) and ATM's (Artic Wolf 7 x ATM3) and had no problemo getting kills in Solo Queue.

#8 Hiten Bongz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 163 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 26 August 2018 - 08:18 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 26 August 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

You mean Artemis? Well you got tracking and fasta lock bonuses for years without LOS, and on missiles systems unrelated to Artemis aka streaks. Talk about bug exploit. Time to pay the ferryman!

You forgot about these or conveniently don't want to mention?


The built-in Artemis that got deleted from ATMs, NOT the exploit where you can add another Artemis with the drop down box. You know ATMs have Artemis built in already right, so they lost fast lock with the nerf? WITHOUT exploit?

#9 OZHomerOZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 1,896 posts

Posted 26 August 2018 - 08:36 PM

Just saying that in TT Artemis allowed more missiles to hit the target.
Does a faster lock allow more missiles to hit the target or does tighter grouping.

IMO Artemis should never have provided faster locks in the first place.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 August 2018 - 08:37 PM.


#10 Hiten Bongz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 163 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted 26 August 2018 - 08:50 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 26 August 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

Just saying that in TT Artemis allowed more missiles to hit the target.
Does a faster lock allow more missiles to hit the target or does tighter grouping.

IMO Artemis should never have provided faster locks in the first place.


Oh, I see what you are saying now. I never did play TT - just the MW games from MW2 on.

I'd argue that under different circumstances, either fast locking or a tighter spread can allow more missiles to hit the target. If they are playing peek-a-boo, faster locking is for sure going to help, as it might even mean the difference between being able to fire or not. Tighter spread would be more advantageous when the target is out in the wide open and won't have the chance to break your lock every few seconds.

As far as Artemis providing faster locks in the first place, well I can't really argue for or against just the fact that PGI gave us the faster lock as part of stock ATMs and now it's poof gone. And I'm salty. Lol. Anyone who plays with ATMs should be, and Streakers too, even though that was a pure "exploit" on Streaks I think they both could use some individual buffs now. That said the Artemis nerf seems too heavy handed and it simply isn't worth the tonnage and crit slots anymore even for LRM/SRMs where it still functions to a degree, and making equipment straight up worthless is a problem. Buffing AMS, IMO, is a better solution because it doesn't negatively affect the weapons themselves, but gives those who choose to actually outfit missile defence a large defensive buff.

Edited by Hiten Bongz, 26 August 2018 - 08:58 PM.


#11 OZHomerOZ

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 1,896 posts

Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:18 AM

I still disagree with faster locks, but increasing tracking strength of Artemis could also increase the number of missiles hitting the target with out increasing lock on speed.

My reasoning is ATM's have a great deal of flexibility, and huge damage potential, giving them lock the same as lerms I think is fair.

Now IMO streaks are a different story. I think lock time affects streaks the most.
What to do depends if you think their OP or meh.

If OP leave em as they are IMO
and if
Meh, ask PGI to add a streak skill in the tree which reduces lock times for streaks only, similar to LBx,Ultra, Flamer and Rac having unique skills.

#12 Kinski Orlawisch

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 2,159 posts
  • LocationHH

Posted 27 August 2018 - 03:22 AM

I had a game now where the lock didn t came up. UAV...Beagel...ECM on counter...NO chance.. I had the target 75 sec in my Target HUD....but couldnt fire at 100m....With normal SRM he would have been dead for a long time.
Since the patch are SSRM sometimes just a waste of tonnage.

#13 OmniFail

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 249 posts

Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:33 AM

LRM 5s are extinct with AMS the way it is now. You cannot fire enough LRM 5's to cut though a single AMS and do damage without accruing massive ghost heat. LRM 10's fair only slightly better. A buff to AMS would make LRM 10's extinct.

PGI has essentially driven LRM users to strive for larger tube counts and then started narrowing their usability by introducing new game features and maps that make them more situational. Now they have gone back to using all out nerfs. Many hail the buffs to heat, velocity, and ammo as making LRM's viable again. Unfortunately the velocity buff was not enough for a bird to poot on and had marginal effects on targets that where very far away. The heat buff was not needed for clan LRM users and not enough for IS LRM users. Every one that uses ammo pretty much got a buff. I personally stripped off some of my ammo and added more sinks so I could use my lasers more on the maps and game modes where my LRMs where of less use.

The changes to Artimis has only diminished LRM mid range capabilites and encourages LRM users to do what the community has always complained about. (LRM users standing far away)

But don't take my word for it go and check it out for yourself.

Edited by OmniFail, 06 September 2018 - 10:44 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users