78 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

Some claim the HPPC quirk is a mistake, but even if it isn't I dont find the build particularly lethal.

I get way better results on my standard laser vomit 8Q builds and for heavier pinpoint builds using HG, GR, AC-10 or PPC combos I get much more armor for an equivalent ground speed.

If this ghost heat reduction is an oversight I say leave it as triple HPPC is not going to change meta in any way. At least not on the Awesome.

Edited by Spheroid, 17 October 2018 - 11:48 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Even with -30.5% heat gen and 0.242 dissipation per sink after quirks and skills, it's still not enough for 19 DHS to cool 3x HPPC.

Lul.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 18 October 2018 - 12:14 AM.

[Tiewolf]

It is not meta at all, you have to hide in your team like a lurmboat and its way too hot. But it is fun to play! Who would have thought that one day the awesome could be awesome (at least kind of). I hope they never change the quirks. In general i like this kind of quirk flavour. It leaves much room to flavour other mechs like 2xAC20 King Crab without creating monsters,

Edited by Tiewolf, 18 October 2018 - 01:03 AM.

[El Bandito]

Awesome never was a top tier mech, even back when it had hyper quirks for PPCs. People shouldn't expect miracles from such a chassis.

[Bud Crue]

Spheroid, on 17 October 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

If this ghost heat reduction is an oversight I say leave it as triple HPPC is not going to change meta in any way. At least not on the Awesome.

Alas, this possibility (leaving the GH reduction quirk available to triple HPPC on this one mech) will not happen. Chris’s bias against quirks and variant performance DEMAND that this quirk must be removed by his fun killing standards. This quirk provides a variant with a “single optimized build” that is dictated by this quirk, and forces a player to run that build in order for the variant to be successful. In other words if the quirk forces everyone to play the variant with a single build (triple HPPC) but with no quirk they might run something else, or simply not play the variant at all (a consequence PGI has always been historically content with for long periods of time), then a variant specific quirk is unacceptable (except when it is like with the Spider 5V of course).

Chris has repeatedly said that such build defining, and player choice removing, quirks must not be allowed as they represent “barriers to entry” for players. Chis will not let such a quirk stand for long. So enjoy it while it lasts, however mediocre its benefits are.

[Bud Crue]

El Bandito, on 18 October 2018 - 01:35 AM, said:

Awesome never was a top tier mech, even back when it had hyper quirks for PPCs. People shouldn't expect miracles from such a chassis.

Miracles? No. I’d just like a viable niche. Yet balance these days seems to mean nerfing a mech to have no role, if the alternative is merely a niche role if that niche is defined by quirks.

[RickySpanish]

2 HPPC melts my Grasshopper and it has the luxury of jets and high mounts, so I went straight for regular ER PPCs on my 9M as I expected people were a wee bit over hyped. It was underwhelming. You are eating an assault spot on your team with a poorly armoured and fat heavy, with absolutely miserable hardpoint placement and a typically slow speed as a 'Mech in that bracket. Just look at the difference in utility between a Fafnir with H-Gauss and ECM, and a freaking Awesome. Assaults do NOT do well as "fire support" 'Mechs imo, you are just being far too selfish with that drop slot, you need to share armour or provide something other than just damage. The Awesome would honestly be better off going on a diet and becoming a 75 ton heavy. Ah well, it's a fun 'Mech certainly, it's just a little useless in practice.

Edited by RickySpanish, 18 October 2018 - 04:21 AM.

[The Lighthouse]

Awesome still needs some more ridiculous quirks to be even remotely useful.

I still found my old 2 X HPPC + 2 X PPC works better than 3 X HPPC somehow. Then again, we are talking about Awesome here.

[Tiewolf]

RickySpanish, on 18 October 2018 - 04:20 AM, said:

Just look at the difference in utility between a Fafnir with H-Gauss and ECM, and a freaking Awesome. Assaults do NOT do well as "fire support" 'Mechs imo, you are just being far too selfish with that drop slot, you need to share armour or provide something other than just damage. The Awesome would honestly be better off going on a diet and becoming a 75 ton heavy. Ah well, it's a fun 'Mech certainly, it's just a little useless in practice.

You are right, that the Awesome is still far from beeing great but when you compare it to the Fafnir you should consider the range difference of nearly the same pinpoint damage. Many heavys with good mobility, narrower hitboxes and quirks can "tank" better then assaults with no mobility and easy to pick hitboxes. The idea that assaults need to share armor for the team must come from pre engine desync. With your definition of fire support a Mad Cat IIC, a Marauder IIC or most clan assaults would be a selfish drop slots too. I can only speak for myself but I am glad when i see some of those pop up on my team.

Edited by Tiewolf, 18 October 2018 - 04:44 AM.

[Jonathan8883]

I've tried it, but so far I can get better results playing an Urbie. There's too much time spent cooling off.

[Dogstar]

Jonathan8883, on 18 October 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:

I've tried it, but so far I can get better results playing an Urbie. There's too much time spent cooling off.

That's because _all_ PPCs suck.

[Khobai]

why would you even play a triple HPPC awesome

youre better off with triple ERPPC because no min range

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 18 October 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

why would you even play a triple HPPC awesome

youre better off with triple ERPPC because no min range

Or dual HPPC with some Medium Pulses or something to cover your min range.

[razenWing]

sounds like a lot of people are trying to hide their "secret" from being corrected by PGI

I saw Juju played 2 days ago before the patch. 3 HPPC spike to 40%. Are you god damn kidding me? First of all, your 80 Alpha laz vom mech is useless unless you are staring at someone (or have the steadiest hand in the world). So we are talking about 2.5 cycles of HPPC PINPOINT to shut an awesome down.

Rather than self-pity because you can't aim with a projectile weapon, this mech in the hands of great pilots (damn it, juju included) does wonder. You can constantly move (and movement = damage reduction) while launching pinpoint alphas all the time. If you are expecting PPC mechs to cool off like other mechs, well, such a thing don't exist anyways. But compare to other PPC mech, 3 HPPC at 40% only is NOT an advantage? Are you kidding me?

"O the bugged awesome is still not as good as a deathstrike"
No kidding genius, but if a deathstrike carries 3 ERPPC, it will suck a lot more, so what's really your point here?

Khobai, on 18 October 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

why would you even play a triple HPPC awesome

youre better off with triple ERPPC because no min range

Except the argument isn't whether ERPPC is a better weapon than HPPC. It's 3 HPPC is bugged. I am fairly sure you can't fire 3 ERPPC on the awesome without shutting down. You can with 3 HPPC.

Edited by razenWing, 18 October 2018 - 05:38 AM.

[Viking Yelling]

Yeah, i tried a few builds yesterday. The hardpoints are just to spread, and mine doesnt have survival tree so there's that. I did all these builds with a light 300, and was trying to work a big *** targeting computer on all of them. Only had the heatsink skill nodes.

4 Lppc and 2 LPL, worked ok, but really just highlighted the weak points of Lppc. Using 4 ErLl would have been better.

3 snubnose and 4 MPL, again worked ok, but the close range and the awesomes survival issues just made it worse.

3 Hppc and 3 ErML, very lethat in one shot situations, but the heat was almost too much using 14-15 doubles. Almost completely combat ineffective due to cooldown and high heatspikes.

For my standard build, I'd like it if they just gave it a +1 Large laser HLS.
I like to run 4 ErLL and 2 LPL. Problem is you have to chain fire the LL and have the LPL on a different group for closer range, and a 3rd group for 3 LL. It works ok this way, except the hardpoints are too frequently blocked and switching from peaking with the LL to brawling with the LPL on the other side of the mech gets complicated.

Edited by Viking Yelling, 18 October 2018 - 08:38 AM.

[RickySpanish]

razenWing, on 18 October 2018 - 05:28 AM, said:

sounds like a lot of people are trying to hide their "secret" from being corrected by PGI

I saw Juju played 2 days ago before the patch. 3 HPPC spike to 40%. Are you god damn kidding me? First of all, your 80 Alpha laz vom mech is useless unless you are staring at someone (or have the steadiest hand in the world). So we are talking about 2.5 cycles of HPPC PINPOINT to shut an awesome down.

Rather than self-pity because you can't aim with a projectile weapon, this mech in the hands of great pilots (damn it, juju included) does wonder. You can constantly move (and movement = damage reduction) while launching pinpoint alphas all the time. If you are expecting PPC mechs to cool off like other mechs, well, such a thing don't exist anyways. But compare to other PPC mech, 3 HPPC at 40% only is NOT an advantage? Are you kidding me?

"O the bugged awesome is still not as good as a deathstrike"
No kidding genius, but if a deathstrike carries 3 ERPPC, it will suck a lot more, so what's really your point here?



Except the argument isn't whether ERPPC is a better weapon than HPPC. It's 3 HPPC is bugged. I am fairly sure you can't fire 3 ERPPC on the awesome without shutting down. You can with 3 HPPC.

You can fire 3 ER PPC without shutting down... What have you been smoking? H-PPC on an Awesome is rub~ no. Wait. Scratch that. It's ggrreeeat! Yes. Please, run that build, I don't mind so long as you are red.

[Funky Bacon]

People still don't like the Awesome? Good, the secret of its power remains hidden.

[Eisenhorne]

3 HPPC + TCOMP 3 (no medium lasers) is great on the AWS-8Q... don't know what you guys are talking about.

It's not great on every map, and its certainly no brawler, but I've used it a few times in FP games, and it hasn't dissapointed yet. It basically one shots clan lights if you get a solid hit on one, and it blows solid holes in the sides of hellbringers. It's basically a dual heavy gauss with 2.5x the range.... what's not to love?

I can fire it 3 times + a fourth salvo of 2 HPPC without cooling down, 5 times if I pop a coolshot. That's pretty great.

[RickySpanish]

Eisenhorne, on 18 October 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

3 HPPC + TCOMP 3 (no medium lasers) is great on the AWS-8Q... don't know what you guys are talking about.

It's not great on every map, and its certainly no brawler, but I've used it a few times in FP games, and it hasn't dissapointed yet. It basically one shots clan lights if you get a solid hit on one, and it blows solid holes in the sides of hellbringers. It's basically a dual heavy gauss with 2.5x the range.... what's not to love?

I can fire it 3 times + a fourth salvo of 2 HPPC without cooling down, 5 times if I pop a coolshot. That's pretty great.

It's great until someone starts shooting back, or closes within 90m. On FP it's probably more manageable as the front line is less likely to collapse. In QP you are taking up an assault slot with a 'Mech that relies on others to keep it safe, that's risky imo.

[Eisenhorne]

RickySpanish, on 18 October 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

It's great until someone starts shooting back, or closes within 90m. On FP it's probably more manageable as the front line is less likely to collapse. In QP you are taking up an assault slot with a 'Mech that relies on others to keep it safe, that's risky imo.

Eh, I take a LRM Fafnir to QP frequently and get pretty good results generally, I'd probably be fine with a HPPC AWS. But yea, I don't play much QP unless I'm trolling around in a LRM assault much these days (because it's really funny to do so), so probably not going to test that out.